Getting tired of Windows Vista on my laptop. Thinking either Windows 7 or Linux.....
Don M
Posts: 1,653
Actually I'm tired of the updates and virus Smile I put up with.
I have a Dell Inspiron 1525. Dual core Pentium 1.75 GHz, 2GB ram, 100GB HDD.
If I were to change it over to a Linux box what sort of distributions are available?
Where do I get it?
How would I run the Parallax Prop tool? I don't want to use BST. Not an option.
What other issues might I be faced with?
If I upgrade to Windows 7 (full install) I'd be looking at $300. Maybe I'd just buy a new laptop for $500. Probably more for the money than spending the $300.
Thoughts?
Don
I have a Dell Inspiron 1525. Dual core Pentium 1.75 GHz, 2GB ram, 100GB HDD.
If I were to change it over to a Linux box what sort of distributions are available?
Where do I get it?
How would I run the Parallax Prop tool? I don't want to use BST. Not an option.
What other issues might I be faced with?
If I upgrade to Windows 7 (full install) I'd be looking at $300. Maybe I'd just buy a new laptop for $500. Probably more for the money than spending the $300.
Thoughts?
Don
Comments
As far as linux, it really depends what you are using the pc for. Look your current programs over and see which ones you really need, and see if they support linux. I have used BST, don't see any issue there. I don't know of any other real options for prop programming in linux. Virtual boxes and com ports don't play well.
I'm currently running this on a dual core 3.2. The speed of the system "just" gets it done, but I'm not a gamer so this works well for my purposes. I tried Ubuntu and was disappointed by the current offerings. Doesn't the dell 1525 have XP driver support? It's probably best suited for this.
Jeff
If you've still got Vista on your computer.... and you've actually been, like, for-real using it since it first came out....
then, dude, I think Microsoft oughta pin a medal on you and Bill Gates oughta be required to lapdance your backyard barbecue.
I tried to run Mint for a while with the cinnamon desktop and found it to work a lot like XP. Mint kept locking up so I want back to Ubuntu.
Tuxmobile for specific laptop info. tuxmobile.org
Distrowatch for the most popular, best sorted distributions of Linux. distrowatch.com
I use Ubuntu and find it excellent, but recently Mint has moved ahead in popularity. Generally the top 5 are best for someone that wants help from others. Fedora doesn't provide as much because it is in the USA and bullied by MS to make you purchase certain features that offshore Linux provides with work arounds.
Linux will probably work, but it's not as easy to use as Windows. If you've never used anything but Windows before, any cost savings will be more than offset by the headaches it will induce.
I can understand your point of view, but once one learns Linux - you will find it easier, more cost effective, and that you will get much more done. Windows in any version can be quite distracting to productivity as you find yourself poking around more and waiting longer for scans and searches.
LinuX became drastically easier for the new user when the installation process evolved to using just one LiveCD and an internet connection. The CD scans your computer and does all the configuration work that used to require a whole pile of CDs and hours of waiting to build a proper Linux installation. If you don't believe me, just download an Ubuntu LiveCD in an .iso file, burn a copy, and run it in demonstration mode (it won't change your computer until you actually choose to tell it to install).
Windows isn't really any easier; it is just a consumer cocoon that pretends to be. With Windows, you will perpetually have to buy Anti-Virus to protect the system, you will have a rather annoying and dubious update system, and you will be less empowered to learn all aspects of the computer (unless you have someone paying tuition for MS courses). And then, MS has a lot of paranoid pop-ups that try to get you to buy more security.
Linux - being based on Unix - is quite simple in concept. First off, everything is considered to be a 'file' of some sort - that includes the USB ports, the serial ports, and the parallel ports. And internal communications are done either in Block Transfers or a Stream of bytes or words - only two modes. Read the old Unix Manuals to get a very good, clear introduction. Also, it started as a multi-user system and as a result is a lot more stable as such.
One of the most wonderful items in Linux is the EXT3 file system as it doesn't require you use Defrag to make the hard disk run faster.
I'm curious, Why is BST not an option? It has been working fine for me for years.
I would suggest getting into Linux, my preference is for Debian and KDE. Today we have a lot of tools for the Propeller that will run under Linux. The Spin, PASM, C, C++ language compilers, the SimpleIDE prop tool replacement, a loader and a simulator.
https://sites.google.com/site/propellergcc/documentation/simpleide
And there is of course BST and the PZST IDE http://code.google.com/p/pzst/
In case of being nervous about not having Bill G's apron strings around to hang onto I'd get that second laptop with Win 7 on it as well.
I say 'nearly' as the automation usually works fine if you dump the whole hard disk and reformat. But I do 'dual boot' that retains the Windows OS and that can be a bit tricky. The Windows OS likes to think it has complete control of the hard disk and Linux has benevolently worked around this.
If you want to do a 'dual boot', it might be best to seek out a local Linux User Group and find a mentor to take you through your first installation.
Laptops are more of a headache than Desktops because some BIOS are not Linux friendly and there are a lot of odd features that each manufacturer proves. That is why I mentioned TuxMobile. They have a database of installation successes and failures for laptops. It helps to know how good a fix Linux will be before you install.
The above is a review of a successful Ubuntu 8.10 installation on a Dell Insprion 1525.
Ubuntu has moved up to version 12.04 now, so the information is a bit dated. The main point is this laptop has historically been supported in Linux.
If you want to specifically use Mint or Ubuntu, go to their own forums for further and more up-to-date info about installation on your particular laptop.
Its Like running Puppy on a P4 ...... Its for a friend he is gonna VM other distros and Win on it ..
side bar //// we tried 12.04 LTE ubunto ////// O EM GE I WANT to puke //// what a horrid interface.
Worse then a Ipad ! / My mother would be bored of it
GNOME or KDE ot XFCE .
Unless required by your place of employment, DO NOT USE Internet Explorer.
Yes, you can load or purchase a version of Linux on a USB memory stick for booting without installing. But I'd first use a LiveCD if you have a CD/DVD interface on the computer -- some laptops do not and that might complicate installation for those.
Windows 7 is pretty good, but it is still an MS product. Vista has always been over the top in annoying features.
The fact that the user does NOT want to use BST if rather perplexing, but I guess SimpleIDE now supports SPIN and C in Linux. I find BST to be quite easy. Maybe using Nedit to write programs is disliked. I did have to copy over all the documentation and examples from the Windows side of my dual boot computer to make BST fully functional. But that was rather easy as Ubuntu Linux will allow you to go into Windows directories and copy documents to Linux. Of course, Windows won't do the opposite as it pretends Linux is not on the computer.
Keep in mind that Windows 8 is going to be released next month, so some of the prices on Win 7 may change.
I have tried all of the major Linux systems out there, Ubuntu, OpenSuse, and Fedora, which would I choose, depends on your Linux expertise. Everybody has their own reason for choosing Linux, but at this point, I still think Windows is the best choice for the least hassle system, plug and play, as they say, system.
Ray
Base on your spec, my search in LQ says Fedora 8 (with zero hassle in identifying all your hardware) but the latest build is 17, which I think might be an over-kill but you might like to try to run a live version first.
As for running PropTool, take a look at the Wine Project for Propeller Tool. I've never tried it.
Do both. You will need to have both if you're new to Linux you cannot just drop your PC right away. You will always find software that doesn't run on Linux, however having Linux opens up some doors to other software you may have never had on a PC.
One thing that puts a wrench in the gears with Linux on a PC is the video chipset. Without the right video drivers you may be stuck with a low resolution. That is hit and miss you can check HCLs http://www.linux-drivers.org
Personally, I couldn't live without a variety of operating systems. Sometimes when I boot up my laptop I hold down the arrow key so it cycles between the different OS's then stop on a random one and let it boot. That's the one I'd use for whatever task I needed to do.
If you want to try Linux, it's painless to install the free VirtualBox at https://www.virtualbox.org/ and run the Linux live distribution of your choice from a CD or USB thumb drive. You can do this is about an hour with your existing hardware. Using Virtualbox from a CD or thumb drive won't affect your Windows drive.
.
Show the above quotes to the intended user.
If their eyes do not glaze over and they appear to comprehend, install some version of Linux,
otherwise spend $99 and install Windows 7, it's probably the best choice.
"" I have a Dell Inspiron 1525. Dual core Pentium 1.75 GHz, 2GB ram, 100GB HDD."
is hardly a modern Computer .. the ram alone is TO ME far to low to think of any thing more then XP
Much Like my toughbook .. . Pimp it to 4 GB and that is gonna be on the edge with a Less Peppy CPU....
you want to Try Linux ?... VM it on top of your WIN sys. . Deban is Lightweight and has none of the
I was a HUGE Fedora fan till they went nuts and was doing the same thing that Ubuntu does with Over hyper releases .
Ubuntu LTE is a small step in the right direction .
but at that point you might as well Run its Daddy Deb .. again .. Older HW precludes a more mature lifecycle based distro . Besids the Ubun and Fedora . most distros are far more dare I say .. refined and more cautious in there releases.. case in point RHEL is at 7 now ? and fedora is chugging at 15 +!
Give a man Windows and have him bound by a "The man" in a Biz suit .
Teach a man the way OF a suited ( TUX) penguin and have him Be Free the rest of his Life ......
Put Windows VM in a Linux system.. Make "The man " work for YOU !
peter
The thing is that Linux seems to do a better job of optimizing an old machine. I use Ubuntu 12.10LTS on my Quad machine, and it is still nicer to run than Vista. MS seems to make Windows wander off into the weeds and you have to wait for it to resolve where it went.
On my Toshiba NB250, Windows 7 Starter is the best running of my Windows OS, but still the Ubuntu is easier for me to get anything done.
Peter may be right that other less popular distributions would fit an old machine more easily as they might retain more legacy features. SUSE Linux might be a good one. The problem is that if you go with something like pure Debian, you are not going to have the huge following of users to help you along. And Debian can be very slow to get some new items that you really want.
I think you can still get an Ubuntu 8.04 download for the Dell you have. And even the Ubuntu 11.xx has a special install for older legacy machines.
really once you bust that hump of the fear of a few simple CLI commands you Really get the whole world in your hands..... Much Like the Prop!
its a steap curve to get to a glossy GUI to trusting a BASH to apt-get......... the one thing I have not mastered is tar balls ..... I am a package man ..... RPM on Fedora and centOS and Redhat spoiled me......
Il admit I don't think I would do well on arch Etc I am not "that brave"" not that good Yet "
Considering my roots ( the pun) are with Red hat 7 Pre RHEL days ! I was in love with GNOME . and part of why I use Deb is that they ship with Gnome 2.5 ..... again Like Win95 to XP . GNOME 2.5 was the last of the Older UIs most agree that KDE is just getting worse .... Gnome 3 is OK but still has us Long term Old hats in a fit ..
I LOVE XFCE for Pre P4 systems as its VERY light on the GPU ... almost win3.5 Ish ! good for a server where eye candy has no need ..
XFCE is also handy if you are like me and have on more then one actions un installed my GUI ! ...... a light backup is just what I need to get to RPM or apt Ect and then re install the main GUI
I did not master CLI package managers till last Year so now I know how to install any pkg in a CLI I would these days just Install Gnome 2.5 on the sys I want and not care what the stock one was ..
he problem is that if you go with something like pure Debian, you are not going to have the huge following of users to help you along. And Debian can be very slow to get some new items that you really want.
Debian was the base to Ubuntu .. they forked in the10 Ish Years ago . Deb as a base has 20+Years of Users under its belt ! .
Ubunto has half that ..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Debian_family_tree_11-06.png
Fedora has Red hat to thank ..... I used RHEL for 3 Years to help me learn .. .. If I toasted my system I had a person 24/7 to baby sit me at a command line over the phone If I messed up my sys....... In fact it's why I took the Plunge to use Debian .... I was ready for it ! ....i crashd my car twice and now Iam a good Driver . Now I don't have to think about how hard it was.... Its Easy now...
For the record I only had to call 2 times in 3 years .......... so I Kinda Over paid for what I used so to say ...
Debian . Fedora 4-9 Ubuntu 9 . red hat 7 RHEL 5-6 CentOS .. Mandrivia . DSL . Puppy
Peter
First I should mention that the laptop is not my only computer. I have a Windows XP main computer that I do most all of my programming on and hardly any internet on. Right next to it I have a MAC Mini that I do most all of my internet browsing, emailing, writing and everything else "computer" etc. on. The laptop is mainly used during traveling or in the field work. I have a few others as well.
Regarding my comment about BST- It's not that I don't think it's a wonderful program, it is. It's the fact that it doesn't show the "hierarchical" (is that what I should call it?) lines that Prop tool does when you indent. To me it's very hard to follow on BST. That's my only beef about it from the very little I have used or tried it.
To some comments about the "power" this laptop has or questioning how "modern" it may be- with regards to just doing programming, internet surfing, email and those types of things it's plenty powerful enough. I'm not a gamer that uses some insane graphics capabilities or huge calculated spreadsheets, etc. so as such it's quite capable in that regard.
It's sounds as though going to a Linux scenario will involve a learning curve and cause some grief trying to run a VM in order to get some programs to run. So maybe my best bet is as someone mentioned here to wait until 8 comes out and see if there are any discounts for 7. I haven't looked on Ebay but maybe there are some bargains for 7 now. I was thinking of wiping out the hard drive completely and do a full virgin install rather than do an "upgrade". Just going on some comments made by some I've talked to that that is better than just upgrading.
AH good not your Only system ... and Good its not a main computer . nor for Heavy use .. Good ! then 7 Is not so bad ! .. It sounded Like you had just a laptop..
The Intended End user needs are key ......