That's interesting, it's a chance to see if someone is speaking from the heart or the mind when they say they would like to go to Mars, after spending a few years in that chamber would they think otherwise?
I myself would cosider it but only in the last years of my life or if I knew of impending death, sounds selfish I know but as you say it's a one way ticket.
TI myself would cosider it but only in the last years of my life or if I knew of impending death, sounds selfish I know but as you say it's a one way ticket.
Let me point out your impending death, and remind you that you are in the last years of you life.
Even if you stay here, its always a one way ticket on short journey. A simple calculation shows the average and absolute maximum number of day you have left, so you can have a ball park idea without a crystal ball. (Creepy, but kind of cool exercise.)
The difference is, are you going to try something amazing, or are you going to be part of the 3 billion majority that dies forgotten, and leaves no foot print in the sands of time?
Would you be allowed to live your life under your own terms or would you still be bound by rules and regulations from your masters on earth?
I wonder if they would send a lawyer with the group? After all, what happens if you just sort of ignore the directions given to you and do what you think is best? Maybe they'll try to sue you for everything you have (1 bed, a trunk of personal items, and 60 kiloliters of oxygen).
Actually why does Mars have to be a one way ticket? the astronauts successfully came home from the moon why couldn't the same be done with Mars I'm sure the logistics of food and water could be worked out for the return trip.
Would you be allowed to live your life under your own terms or would you still be bound by rules and regulations from your masters on earth?
The closest Mars ever approaches the Earth at a favorable opposition is 35 million miles away! Who's going to listen to bureaucrats back on Earth for day-to-day Mars management? I'm sure the colonists will set their own rules and Earth would act as consultant.
But until the reliance on earth for support has gone you will be at their mercy, once the planet is habitable by many the bureaucrats would move in.
I'm sure that they wouldn't allow you to stake a claim to Mars.
I'm sure that they wouldn't allow you to stake a claim to Mars.
If they did, that's one good incentive to move people to Mars. I'd like to stake a claim on my own little section of Martian land and establish a home there with a Propeller-stocked Science Lab. As always, know your Martian topography so as not to invest in the badlands (unless you're looking for fossilized Martian life).
If they did, that's one good incentive to move people to Mars. I'd like to stake a claim on my own little section of Martian land and establish a home there with a Propeller-stocked Science Lab. As always, know your Martian topography so as not to invest in the badlands (unless you're looking for fossilized Martian life).
Right im off to find where are those martian oilfields
Before you go you may want to visit the Mars Academy website - http://library.thinkquest.org/12145/ . There's a lot of interesting information there. It takes about 8.5 months to get to Mars. From earth orbit you only need to increase your speed by 3 km/s to travel to mars. That's only about 50% faster than the X-15 travelled. You can reach that speed with 1G of acceleration for 5 minutes.
"Once you get to earth orbit, you're halfway to anywhere in the solar system." Robert A. Heinlein
Which brings up the matter of how do you settle claims without jurisdiction?
Will it really boil down to the way it was settled on Earth many years ago.....with countless wars?
Let me point out your impending death, and remind you that you are in the last years of you life.
Even if you stay here, its always a one way ticket on short journey. A simple calculation shows the average and absolute maximum number of day you have left, so you can have a ball park idea without a crystal ball. (Creepy, but kind of cool exercise.)
The difference is, are you going to try something amazing, or are you going to be part of the 3 billion majority that dies forgotten, and leaves no foot print in the sands of time?
So, now would you go?
Wow, this is an incredibly philosophical and profound statement about life. It's also ironic that Mars is comprised of much wind-blown sand and one could literally leave their footprint images for all to remember in the sands of time. Quantum theorists also say that just living and being a part of humanity, no matter what you do or accomplish, is a significant contributory causality to society and humankind evolution in the COSMOS. So if you don't make it to Mars amidst the first select few, don't worry about it because you're still important in the overall scheme of things in the Universe. Many of us share the same thoughts about trying something amazing and it would be interesting to know what will register in the sands of time...
A better test for would be settlers is spending a year aboard a submarine followed by another year at the South Pole. If you can't hack those you can't hack long duration space travel. My bet 90% wouldn't even pass the screening set forth by the sub crew.
On the good side it would weed out the anti-socials, fanbois, the sick with some sort of death wish. The sort of people you don't want in a hostile environment. The fact is, it costs a lot of money to put someone in space and even more if sent to Mars. You don't want people cracking under pressure, etc. You want the best you can find. Though you won't attract the level of "Right Stuff" since it's a suicide mission.
Think about it, stuck on a dead planet, getting slowly cooked by Cosmic Rays, body slowly degrading because of low gravity, stuck in a tin can not much bigger than a jail cell. OTOH a lot of people who work at any high tech cube farm, might find it attractive. Think about it, being stuck in a Herman Miller soul sucking cube for 40 years doing jobs you hate, then you retire, get a heart attack, stroke or diabetes a few years later and die.
Think about it, being stuck in a Herman Miller soul sucking cube for 40 years doing jobs you hate, then you retire, get a heart attack, stroke or diabetes a few years later and die.
I think the only analogous Earth based simulator is what the Mars society people have done in the desert.
A submarine does not have windows. It would simulate the negative aspects of Mars life but not the positive. Same with the south pole. If you venture outside in Antartica you better be prepared to get really cold. On Mars, you need a space suit or you die.
I think Zubrin's two year round trip plan is far more practical than trying to settle Mars the first time we visit.
I've been reading up on the timeline...
The first launch(2016) is 2500Kg of 'food and other supplies'
The second launch(lands 2018) is a Rover for exploration to find the best possible site...
Then there's an unspecified number of launches until 2021 when all the equipment is to be on site.
In 2022 oxygen/water and 'atmosphere production'(are they planning to start terraforming that soon?) will be up and running, and first set of colonists will be launched, to land in 2023.
For Oxygen and Water they're going to dig for ice...
(Are they really aware how much energy it takes to 'crack' water into Oygen and Hydrogen? and how dangerous the process can be?)
Frankly, I have my doubts that the colony can be supplied with enough power from just Solar panels.
(Martian storms can be nasty and last a very long time)
Nowhere is there any mention of Hydroponics...
(Actually, you'd want Aquaponics - probably with Tilapia fish - for a bit more complete cycle)
And that REALLY should be up and running half a year(at least) before the first colonists arrive.
Sure, you'd need a Remote robot and a full-time operator on Earth to keep watch over the garden until the colonists begins to arrive.
Finding out after the colonists arrives that they're missing something crucial in the system is a bit late...
Edit:
I found this:
Once they arrive on Mars, the astronauts will begin making use of their spacious living units; over 50 m2 per person, and a total of more than 200 m2.
Within the settlement are inflatable components which contain bedrooms, working areas, a living room and a plant production unit, where they will grow greenery. They will also be able to shower as normal, prepare fresh food (that they themselves harvested) in the kitchen, wear regular clothes, and in essence lead typical day-to-day lives.
If they want to leave the settlement they will have to wear a Mars Suit, but all Units will be connected by passageways, so that the astronauts can move freely from one end of the base to the other. It will not take long for them to put down roots, and once they have done so they can begin building and researching.
50meters per person sounds like a good room, especially as the bath is in the lander and therefore isn't counted.
But is the 'plant production unit' part of the overall 200 m2?
I wonder how abrasionresist the inflatable components are...
W9GFO you bring up the MDRS . In fact next summer I have full plans to pay the 2 K to do a week there ! I want to do a more ACES tests . and do some other R and D .
The photos of the inflatable habitats are merely inaccurate artist renditions. Inflatables on the surface offer insufficient protection against 300 MPH Martian winds and incoming radiation. The original idea is to bury the Mars habitats underground so the Martian soil can protect against the elements. They expect to limit outdoor play based on the amount of suit protection. The new redesigns over the Moon suits look very good. Mars gravity is only 38% of Earths so a good activity is weight training. Other research showed permanent Martian residents would spawn a new civilization who are very slender and very tall, maybe 8 feet and above. In short term Earth studies, those who stretched their bodies to gain height advantage for Air Force qualifications were able to add two inches or more.
1) Can you cite a reference for 300 mph surface wind speed? Vikings recorded about 60 mph. Earth commonly has 200 mph winds (upper atmosphere), yet tents hold up just fine.
2) Because of the very thin atmosphere on Mars a high wind is not going to have the same effect as here on Earth.
The wind doesn't need to break down a tent or inflatable structure directly...
The big problem is the sand/dust carried on the wind. It's very abrasive and also tends to stick to exposed surfaces such as solar panels.
We have sand, dust and a lot more wind here on Earth and we manage alright.
My request for citation regarding the 300 mph winds was to refute the claim that inflatable structures were inadequate. I think you will find many fabric based, tensioned membraned structures currently in use here in desert areas that experience greater erosion forces that would be encountered on Mars..
Comments
I myself would cosider it but only in the last years of my life or if I knew of impending death, sounds selfish I know but as you say it's a one way ticket.
If they send loopy, I'm definitely not going. He always does the fun stuff first.
Let me point out your impending death, and remind you that you are in the last years of you life.
Even if you stay here, its always a one way ticket on short journey. A simple calculation shows the average and absolute maximum number of day you have left, so you can have a ball park idea without a crystal ball. (Creepy, but kind of cool exercise.)
The difference is, are you going to try something amazing, or are you going to be part of the 3 billion majority that dies forgotten, and leaves no foot print in the sands of time?
So, now would you go?
I wonder if they would send a lawyer with the group? After all, what happens if you just sort of ignore the directions given to you and do what you think is best? Maybe they'll try to sue you for everything you have (1 bed, a trunk of personal items, and 60 kiloliters of oxygen).
The closest Mars ever approaches the Earth at a favorable opposition is 35 million miles away! Who's going to listen to bureaucrats back on Earth for day-to-day Mars management? I'm sure the colonists will set their own rules and Earth would act as consultant.
I'm sure that they wouldn't allow you to stake a claim to Mars.
"Once you get to earth orbit, you're halfway to anywhere in the solar system." Robert A. Heinlein
I happen to already own the entire planet of Mars. I have a certificate from the Martian bureau of properties and titles that says so.
..........
Otherwise you owe me a whole lot of puatlus!
Will it really boil down to the way it was settled on Earth many years ago.....with countless wars?
Wow, this is an incredibly philosophical and profound statement about life. It's also ironic that Mars is comprised of much wind-blown sand and one could literally leave their footprint images for all to remember in the sands of time. Quantum theorists also say that just living and being a part of humanity, no matter what you do or accomplish, is a significant contributory causality to society and humankind evolution in the COSMOS. So if you don't make it to Mars amidst the first select few, don't worry about it because you're still important in the overall scheme of things in the Universe. Many of us share the same thoughts about trying something amazing and it would be interesting to know what will register in the sands of time...
I'll file this under "How Quantum Physicist parent rationalize their child being picked last for the kick ball team."
On the good side it would weed out the anti-socials, fanbois, the sick with some sort of death wish. The sort of people you don't want in a hostile environment. The fact is, it costs a lot of money to put someone in space and even more if sent to Mars. You don't want people cracking under pressure, etc. You want the best you can find. Though you won't attract the level of "Right Stuff" since it's a suicide mission.
Think about it, stuck on a dead planet, getting slowly cooked by Cosmic Rays, body slowly degrading because of low gravity, stuck in a tin can not much bigger than a jail cell. OTOH a lot of people who work at any high tech cube farm, might find it attractive. Think about it, being stuck in a Herman Miller soul sucking cube for 40 years doing jobs you hate, then you retire, get a heart attack, stroke or diabetes a few years later and die.
Gee, thanks for documenting my career path! :0(
Ray
A submarine does not have windows. It would simulate the negative aspects of Mars life but not the positive. Same with the south pole. If you venture outside in Antartica you better be prepared to get really cold. On Mars, you need a space suit or you die.
I think Zubrin's two year round trip plan is far more practical than trying to settle Mars the first time we visit.
The first launch(2016) is 2500Kg of 'food and other supplies'
The second launch(lands 2018) is a Rover for exploration to find the best possible site...
Then there's an unspecified number of launches until 2021 when all the equipment is to be on site.
In 2022 oxygen/water and 'atmosphere production'(are they planning to start terraforming that soon?) will be up and running, and first set of colonists will be launched, to land in 2023.
For Oxygen and Water they're going to dig for ice...
(Are they really aware how much energy it takes to 'crack' water into Oygen and Hydrogen? and how dangerous the process can be?)
Frankly, I have my doubts that the colony can be supplied with enough power from just Solar panels.
(Martian storms can be nasty and last a very long time)
Nowhere is there any mention of Hydroponics...
(Actually, you'd want Aquaponics - probably with Tilapia fish - for a bit more complete cycle)
And that REALLY should be up and running half a year(at least) before the first colonists arrive.
Sure, you'd need a Remote robot and a full-time operator on Earth to keep watch over the garden until the colonists begins to arrive.
Finding out after the colonists arrives that they're missing something crucial in the system is a bit late...
Edit:
I found this: 50meters per person sounds like a good room, especially as the bath is in the lander and therefore isn't counted.
But is the 'plant production unit' part of the overall 200 m2?
I wonder how abrasionresist the inflatable components are...
1) Can you cite a reference for 300 mph surface wind speed? Vikings recorded about 60 mph. Earth commonly has 200 mph winds (upper atmosphere), yet tents hold up just fine.
2) Because of the very thin atmosphere on Mars a high wind is not going to have the same effect as here on Earth.
The big problem is the sand/dust carried on the wind. It's very abrasive and also tends to stick to exposed surfaces such as solar panels.
My request for citation regarding the 300 mph winds was to refute the claim that inflatable structures were inadequate. I think you will find many fabric based, tensioned membraned structures currently in use here in desert areas that experience greater erosion forces that would be encountered on Mars..