Hmm. So you found one computer that all 3 of your PropBOE boards work with, right?
But, the computer you want to use is giving you a "hardware" error message for your 2 new ones, but works with the old one?
The old one is Rev.A and the new ones are Rev.B?
I think it has to be either a driver issue or the Rev.B are drawing more USB power than your PC likes.
A powered USB hub will tell you if it's a power problem.
For the driver, maybe you can find it in "Device Manager" and manually install the driver?
Hmm. So you found one computer that all 3 of your PropBOE boards work with, right?
A little Windows 7 laptop. And yes, correct on the rest of what you're saying
But, the computer you want to use is giving you a "hardware" error message for your 2 new ones, but works with the old one? The old one is Rev.A and the new ones are Rev.B?
I think it has to be either a driver issue or the Rev.B are drawing more USB power than your PC likes. A powered USB hub will tell you if it's a power problem.
I just hooked it directly to the computer instead of through my hub, and no lights when power is on, and on PropTool "No serial ports found"
For the driver, maybe you can find it in "Device Manager" and manually install the driver?
PS: Parallax. You need to update the Parallaxsemiconductor site to reflect the new software.
Well. I haven't yet, but this wouldn't matter as it seems like the LEDs don't even light up when I turn on power. So it's not just a lack of recognition by the proptool software.
Well. I haven't yet, but this wouldn't matter as it seems like the LEDs don't even light up when I turn on power. So it's not just a lack of recognition by the proptool software.
It could still be that the PC you want to use does not provide enough power for the FTDI chip...
But, if you go through a USB powered hub (with the power supply connected), it should provide all the power it needs...
So I haven't found the wallwart that goes with my USB hub (since I've never had to use it) yet. Some updates as folks in the tymkrs IRC are helping (and you are welcome to join in https://qwebirc.afternet.org/?channels=tymkrs)
So I uninstalled the FTDI drivers, rebooted, installed the latest PropTool 1.3.2 which installed USB drivers, and no dice.
It looks like the FTDI Chips are the same FT232RQ, though different series runs. For the working Rev A = N110421, and for both of the Rev B's = N211311
Will update as we figure more...and hopefully I'll be able to find the wallwart for this USB hub to rule that out.
UPDATE: Whisker says the usb hub didn't even come with a wallwart supply...
I hope you can find a powered USB hub somewhere. I think that's the best bet.
If you see words like "hardware", "failure" and or "malfunction" from Windows when you plug it in, that's a pretty good sign it's drawing too much power...
Try creating a USB breakout box and check the current draw with the working unit and then compare to the non-working units. Open the 5V conductor and put a dmm inline to measure supply current draw.
FF
The FT232R on the PropBOE is programmed to request 500 mA from the USB hub. (The computer itself is considered a hub.) If the power draw is granted, the FT232R will drive a pin low that enables a power distribution switch that provides power to the board, through a current limiter that will trip somewhere between 400 and 500 mA. The power request is independent of the com port's enumeration in the operating system, so if the board isn't granted power it won't prevent the port from showing up. You can externally power a board that has been denied USB bus power.
I have seen problematic computers only allow one FT232R device to enumerate and ignore all further devices. using FTDI's CDM uninstaller from http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities.htm#CDMUninstaller then reinstalling the drivers may be able to clear up the problem. You can also try adding the following key to your registry, to tell Windows to ignore the device's serial number:
It has a side effect of preventing windows from assigning a com port to each specific board, instead of using the next available one when a new FTDI device is connected.
The FT232R on the PropBOE is programmed to request 500 mA from the USB hub. (The computer itself is considered a hub.) If the power draw is granted, the FT232R will drive a pin low that enables a power distribution switch that provides power to the board, through a current limiter that will trip somewhere between 400 and 500 mA. The power request is independent of the com port's enumeration in the operating system, so if the board isn't granted power it won't prevent the port from showing up. You can externally power a board that has been denied USB bus power
So essentially, when connected I should still see a COMPORT being assigned to this board, regardless of whether enough power is being provided, thus meaning a powered hub will not solve the computer's inability to recognize the device.
I have seen problematic computers only allow one FT232R device to enumerate and ignore all further devices. using FTDI's CDM uninstaller from http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities.htm#CDMUninstaller then reinstalling the drivers may be able to clear up the problem. You can also try adding the following key to your registry, to tell Windows to ignore the device's serial number:
I will try using the CDMUninstaller, but I have used two propboe Rev A's simultaneously before on this particular hub and computer, and successfully.
It has a side effect of preventing windows from assigning a com port to each specific board, instead of using the next available one when a new FTDI device is connected.
Well. The newest PropBOE works on my 5 year old Macbook running 10.5.8. I tried my usb hub with the newest PropBOE on the mac, and it worked just fine as well - power lights and PropTool recognition. The previous PropBOE (the one that started this thread) still won't show a second power light, and I've pretty much just accepted that. PropTool recognizes that one as well.
I don't know, Roy Eltham'll be happy to hear this, but we're considering just updating our computers to Windows 7 then if it's some strange XP issue.
(And sorry for constantly hijacking the forum here with this thread. I feel like with all of the different efforts and suggestions, it'd be sad if we didn't eventually figure out what the heck was going on!)
ADDENDUM: We measured the voltages coming in from the 5V line down the USB.
Prop 1 = Rev A......Prop 2 = "Nonworking" Rev B #1......Prop 3 = "Nonworking" RevB #2
On the mac. Prop 1 = 4.7V .....Prop 2 = 4.6V.....Prop 3 = 4.83V
On the PC. Prop 1 = 4.65V......Prop 2 = 4.81V......Prop 3 = 4.81V
MORE ADDENDUM: We took a scope to the boards to watch for the handshakes
When you hook the Rev A up to the PC, you get a few big pulses, then a long chatter. And if you scan the ports for a prop after that point, you see a little more chatter.
When you hook the Rev A up to the Mac, you see the same pulses, but no long chatter. And if you scan for props, you see the same short chatter.
On the Rev B, you have the same pulses on both, no longer chatter on either, small chatter when the mac scans ports, and no chatter from when the PC scans ports (obviously as it never initialed a port for it)
And voltage wise: They seem to behave pretty identical for those pulses - pin 3 swings +3.3ish volts a couple of times
ANOTHER ADDENDUM:
One of our IRC buddies suggested we plug the Rev B board into the PC, let it settle for a few seconds, then measure the voltage on J5B pin 3 (labeled RST). We compared the voltage measured and on the Mac we get 3.27V. On the PC nothing.
He replied that it's an active-low reset line. If there's 0V there, the prop does absolutely nothing. So for some reason the FTDI does the initial handshake over USB, but then asserts reset and kills the prop. And based on what we saw before, power is getting through.
Comments
But, the computer you want to use is giving you a "hardware" error message for your 2 new ones, but works with the old one?
The old one is Rev.A and the new ones are Rev.B?
I think it has to be either a driver issue or the Rev.B are drawing more USB power than your PC likes.
A powered USB hub will tell you if it's a power problem.
For the driver, maybe you can find it in "Device Manager" and manually install the driver?
http://www.parallax.com/ProductInfo/Microcontrollers/PropellerGeneralInformation/PropellerMediaPage/tabid/832/Default.aspx
Jim
PS: Parallax. You need to update the Parallaxsemiconductor site to reflect the new software.
A little Windows 7 laptop. And yes, correct on the rest of what you're saying
But, the computer you want to use is giving you a "hardware" error message for your 2 new ones, but works with the old one?
The old one is Rev.A and the new ones are Rev.B?
I think it has to be either a driver issue or the Rev.B are drawing more USB power than your PC likes.
A powered USB hub will tell you if it's a power problem.
I just hooked it directly to the computer instead of through my hub, and no lights when power is on, and on PropTool "No serial ports found"
For the driver, maybe you can find it in "Device Manager" and manually install the driver?
Well. I haven't yet, but this wouldn't matter as it seems like the LEDs don't even light up when I turn on power. So it's not just a lack of recognition by the proptool software.
Acknowledged, just a thought.
Jim
But, if you go through a USB powered hub (with the power supply connected), it should provide all the power it needs...
So I uninstalled the FTDI drivers, rebooted, installed the latest PropTool 1.3.2 which installed USB drivers, and no dice.
It looks like the FTDI Chips are the same FT232RQ, though different series runs. For the working Rev A = N110421, and for both of the Rev B's = N211311
Will update as we figure more...and hopefully I'll be able to find the wallwart for this USB hub to rule that out.
UPDATE: Whisker says the usb hub didn't even come with a wallwart supply...
Looked for the FTDI related files in System32 and "force" deleted these:
system32\drivers\ftdibus.sys
system32\ftbusui.dll ftd2xx.dll ftlang.dll
system32\drivers\ftser2k.sys
system32\ftcserco.dll ftserui2.dll
Got rid of the ones from system32\ReinstallBackups\0012\DriverFiles\1386 as well
Then went to http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm to download the setup exe for the latest drivers...
And no dice, no lights, still hardware problem statement.
If you see words like "hardware", "failure" and or "malfunction" from Windows when you plug it in, that's a pretty good sign it's drawing too much power...
FF
I have seen problematic computers only allow one FT232R device to enumerate and ignore all further devices. using FTDI's CDM uninstaller from http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities.htm#CDMUninstaller then reinstalling the drivers may be able to clear up the problem. You can also try adding the following key to your registry, to tell Windows to ignore the device's serial number: It has a side effect of preventing windows from assigning a com port to each specific board, instead of using the next available one when a new FTDI device is connected.
— David Carrier
Parallax Inc.
So essentially, when connected I should still see a COMPORT being assigned to this board, regardless of whether enough power is being provided, thus meaning a powered hub will not solve the computer's inability to recognize the device.
I have seen problematic computers only allow one FT232R device to enumerate and ignore all further devices. using FTDI's CDM uninstaller from http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities.htm#CDMUninstaller then reinstalling the drivers may be able to clear up the problem. You can also try adding the following key to your registry, to tell Windows to ignore the device's serial number:
I will try using the CDMUninstaller, but I have used two propboe Rev A's simultaneously before on this particular hub and computer, and successfully.
It has a side effect of preventing windows from assigning a com port to each specific board, instead of using the next available one when a new FTDI device is connected.
Hmm.
— David Carrier
Parallax Inc.
I don't know, Roy Eltham'll be happy to hear this, but we're considering just updating our computers to Windows 7 then if it's some strange XP issue.
(And sorry for constantly hijacking the forum here with this thread. I feel like with all of the different efforts and suggestions, it'd be sad if we didn't eventually figure out what the heck was going on!)
ADDENDUM: We measured the voltages coming in from the 5V line down the USB.
Prop 1 = Rev A......Prop 2 = "Nonworking" Rev B #1......Prop 3 = "Nonworking" RevB #2
On the mac. Prop 1 = 4.7V .....Prop 2 = 4.6V.....Prop 3 = 4.83V
On the PC. Prop 1 = 4.65V......Prop 2 = 4.81V......Prop 3 = 4.81V
MORE ADDENDUM: We took a scope to the boards to watch for the handshakes
When you hook the Rev A up to the PC, you get a few big pulses, then a long chatter. And if you scan the ports for a prop after that point, you see a little more chatter.
When you hook the Rev A up to the Mac, you see the same pulses, but no long chatter. And if you scan for props, you see the same short chatter.
On the Rev B, you have the same pulses on both, no longer chatter on either, small chatter when the mac scans ports, and no chatter from when the PC scans ports (obviously as it never initialed a port for it)
And voltage wise: They seem to behave pretty identical for those pulses - pin 3 swings +3.3ish volts a couple of times
ANOTHER ADDENDUM:
One of our IRC buddies suggested we plug the Rev B board into the PC, let it settle for a few seconds, then measure the voltage on J5B pin 3 (labeled RST). We compared the voltage measured and on the Mac we get 3.27V. On the PC nothing.
He replied that it's an active-low reset line. If there's 0V there, the prop does absolutely nothing. So for some reason the FTDI does the initial handshake over USB, but then asserts reset and kills the prop. And based on what we saw before, power is getting through.