Okay, since Rayman was the one who brought up the idea of moving the uSD to 16-19 and then later recanted. I'm going to keep the already standardized 0-3 arrangement, but with removable pull-ups. If someone wants to have uSD on different pins they can yank out the resistor pack and add one of the many inexpensive uSD breakout-board designs available everywhere.
Thanks. Here's another idea (maybe not a good one...) I think the uSD socket that GG uses is hand solderable...
I don't know if that's the one you're using or not. But, if you are and have a ton of extra board space, you could put in a place for a second P16..P19 uSD socket...
Or, maybe just put in thru-holes for the GG uSD adapter for P16..P19...
I must have missed something, what is your reasoning for saying "Why don't you stick with [ASC] ?" Were you intending to be insulting? I wanted to help out. The design is open. Anyone can use it. What gives?
I must have missed something, what is your reasoning for saying "Why don't you stick with [ASC] ?" Were you intending to be insulting? I wanted to help out. The design is open. Anyone can use it. What gives?
No, I'm not trying to be insulting. You have a good thing with going ASC
The GG Propeller Platform has lost it's main promoter however. Isn't that obvious?
If you can make a lower cost and/or more flexible version, maybe it can experience a revival.
Hopefully people can speak out about their own needs for the GGPP as a gauge of interest.
Just tossing out a thought, but what about a 100% PTH PP? If you want to make it more accessible to the masses and improve it's popularity, perhaps a totally PTH easy to assemble version is the way to go?
The number of people that want to tackle a QFP are small, however I know from past experience that a PDIP-40 is a no-brainer for most people.
Make up a layout that is PTH and post a Digikey BOM so people can just suck the CSV into Digikey's order system and get a complete kit of parts.
I'm trying to get Digikey to make their KIT P/Ns accessible by non-company users, so you can post a custom P/N on the forum and it translates to a kit that someone can buy, sans PCB.
I wasn't really trying to revive it. I was going to make up ~25 boards and put them up for sale if a few people still had a need for them. Maybe I got carried away with the design, but I was having loads of fun.
I looked at the GG Ethernet board and it seems in order to do what you describe one has to cut traces and install jumper wires. If people are willing to whip out the X-acto then surely they're okay with moving a few blobs of solder? Let me try one more idea for the SD, and then I need to get back to my wiki.
Maybe I'll take a swat at a PTH version over the weekend. I'm keen on doing a "retro" kit because it makes the technology accessible. Heck, the Arduino uses a DIP, but then has a bunch of SMDs on the board too!
The only problem is that FTDI doesn't have any 20 pin DIP packages to complete the circle!
Just tossing out a thought, but what about a 100% PTH PP?
Somehow I got it into my head that GG was still selling the PTH version. I'm not interested in kits myself. I can't get enough rosin smoke in my face offering kits.
I think the problem is that GadgetGangster is not willing to invest for another batch of 500 boards, while Martin can make them in small quantities, and sell them without distributors. He already has the infrastructure and a Webshop, so this is the ideal solution IMHO.
U13 is the RTC (I2C in parallel with the EEPROM). J11 is for RTC interrupts. In the lower right you'll see the solder jumper arrangement on the back of the board for selecting SD card pin groupings. D3 is the VIN protection diode.
I'm going to make a few prototypes of this anyway.
U13 is the RTC (I2C in parallel with the EEPROM). J11 is for RTC interrupts. In the lower right you'll see the solder jumper arrangement on the back of the board for selecting SD card pin groupings. D3 is the VIN protection diode.
I'm going to make a few prototypes of this anyway.
Bless you Martin Hodge!
But before I get way too excited, what did the "Ardino compatible" tag mean?
The pin headers on this board are .1" spacing, or are they stretched out to fit the A shield?
Good job getting the RTC on board. I think an RTC is a really valuable addition to any SD card capable board.
Regarding the RTC battery - I gather it is a vertical style - what kind of diameter? Is it at risk of touching the next board in the stack? If so there are also horizontal mount batteries that are lower but may need another + terminal on a different offset from the -ve terminal.
An alternative to the SD card pin select could be to just put another SD card footprint directly under the existing one (on the bottom layer for P16-19). This would remove the need for jumpers, and would allow the option of two drives - one for code and programs, the other for logged data etc. What you've already done with the jumpers is entirely acceptable, just presenting a different option for consideration.
@Richard: Right, this has nothing to do with Arduino. It's the original Propeller Platform design with a few extras added. I've taken care that any headers I've added, that are meant for external connections, align with the .1" grid. If I do sell them (and that's still up in the air) they would be populated. Probably two versions, one with the RTC parts and one without.
@Tubular: It's actually a supercap. The same one that's on the Spinneret. And you're right, it is too tall. I thought I had checked that. Good catch. (The exact same cap is available in a horizontal version which looks like it'll fit.)
If all works as advertised, and of course depending on price not going sky high,
I'd like to have half a dozen of them. IF you make them, of course... :thumb:
Would that have any influence on your decision - yea/nay?
@Cluso: the 2025 is ~.800" which is too large for the board unless it went on the back. The S35390A consumes just 0.25 uA. The supercap is charged to 3V when the board is on and will continue to power the RTC down to 1.3V when the board is off. So at .33 F the supercap would last {insert math here}
@cavelamb, that would depend on what you considered sky-high. The added RTC components aren't cheap. I'll do a cost analysis soon.
I've been following this thread with a bit of interest as I miss the gadget gangster propeller platform already!! I understand that the decision is a business one and I don't hold it against them.
It looks like this new board is well on it's way to becoming a purchasable product and am wondering if the plan is to sell it preassembled or as a kit. I currently have no ability to solder smt devices and at this stage in the game have little interest in starting. This could change later however. What I'm interested in is a completed product like the PP usb board and am willing to pay for it. Is this a possibility?
Thanks Andy. It is way too long ago that I did those maths (>40 years). For a prop hobby, 26 days is perfect, but not so sure commercially.
Martin: I have used the 1225 coin cells as they are 12mm dia plus the mounting. Two types of sockets available from Digikey - cheap solder strap (you need to tin the centre pcb pad) of a socket. The socket can go over the top of ICs. I am using them with DS1340C (the internal xtal version). The 1225 only just over half the capacity of the 2025.
Comments
I don't know if that's the one you're using or not. But, if you are and have a ton of extra board space, you could put in a place for a second P16..P19 uSD socket...
Or, maybe just put in thru-holes for the GG uSD adapter for P16..P19...
Martin, why don't you just stick with ASP ?
Anyway, here's the latest update. I added the RTC circuit from the Spinnerette.
ppusb20120407.zip
No, I'm not trying to be insulting. You have a good thing with going ASC
The GG Propeller Platform has lost it's main promoter however. Isn't that obvious?
If you can make a lower cost and/or more flexible version, maybe it can experience a revival.
Hopefully people can speak out about their own needs for the GGPP as a gauge of interest.
The number of people that want to tackle a QFP are small, however I know from past experience that a PDIP-40 is a no-brainer for most people.
Make up a layout that is PTH and post a Digikey BOM so people can just suck the CSV into Digikey's order system and get a complete kit of parts.
I'm trying to get Digikey to make their KIT P/Ns accessible by non-company users, so you can post a custom P/N on the forum and it translates to a kit that someone can buy, sans PCB.
I looked at the GG Ethernet board and it seems in order to do what you describe one has to cut traces and install jumper wires. If people are willing to whip out the X-acto then surely they're okay with moving a few blobs of solder? Let me try one more idea for the SD, and then I need to get back to my wiki.
The only problem is that FTDI doesn't have any 20 pin DIP packages to complete the circle!
Somehow I got it into my head that GG was still selling the PTH version. I'm not interested in kits myself. I can't get enough rosin smoke in my face offering kits.
If the idea excites you, go for it!
Hmmm. Idea... If I could provide you a 20pin DIP conversion... (ugh, bed, delerious)
I think the problem is that GadgetGangster is not willing to invest for another batch of 500 boards, while Martin can make them in small quantities, and sell them without distributors. He already has the infrastructure and a Webshop, so this is the ideal solution IMHO.
pedward
There are already some thru hole PropellerPlatform boards on Tubular's OSHW sampler. See here http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?135920-2012-Propeller-Community-OSHW-quot-SmorgasBoard-quot-***-IN-PRODUCTION-***&p=1068253&viewfull=1#post1068253
My board, left bottom, is very near to what you have in mind, just a bit extended...
I will release more information about it when the board is available.
Andy
U13 is the RTC (I2C in parallel with the EEPROM). J11 is for RTC interrupts. In the lower right you'll see the solder jumper arrangement on the back of the board for selecting SD card pin groupings. D3 is the VIN protection diode.
I'm going to make a few prototypes of this anyway.
Looks good.
Bless you Martin Hodge!
But before I get way too excited, what did the "Ardino compatible" tag mean?
The pin headers on this board are .1" spacing, or are they stretched out to fit the A shield?
Richard
Good job getting the RTC on board. I think an RTC is a really valuable addition to any SD card capable board.
Regarding the RTC battery - I gather it is a vertical style - what kind of diameter? Is it at risk of touching the next board in the stack? If so there are also horizontal mount batteries that are lower but may need another + terminal on a different offset from the -ve terminal.
An alternative to the SD card pin select could be to just put another SD card footprint directly under the existing one (on the bottom layer for P16-19). This would remove the need for jumpers, and would allow the option of two drives - one for code and programs, the other for logged data etc. What you've already done with the jumpers is entirely acceptable, just presenting a different option for consideration.
cheers
tubular
I can make my own daughter boards (shileds) - but that depends on the host board
providing 1." pin centers.
I'm reading your message as the Ardino spacing doesn't not apply here, right?
The other thing is I'm not up to hand soldering surface mount stuff.
Are these boards are fully populated?
If so then big YEA and pleased earmark a few for me!
I've been desperate for a board with a real time clock chip.
Thanks,
Richard
@Tubular: It's actually a supercap. The same one that's on the Spinneret. And you're right, it is too tall. I thought I had checked that. Good catch. (The exact same cap is available in a horizontal version which looks like it'll fit.)
I'd like to have half a dozen of them. IF you make them, of course... :thumb:
Would that have any influence on your decision - yea/nay?
@cavelamb, that would depend on what you considered sky-high. The added RTC components aren't cheap. I'll do a cost analysis soon.
t = (C * V) / I
= (3 - 1.3) * 0.33 / 0.25e-6
= 2244000 seconds = 26 days
Andy
Copy that, Martin. The end price would only effect how many I can buy at once.
Not if I would want them or not.
RTC is at the heart of almost every project I'm tinkering with.
It looks like this new board is well on it's way to becoming a purchasable product and am wondering if the plan is to sell it preassembled or as a kit. I currently have no ability to solder smt devices and at this stage in the game have little interest in starting. This could change later however. What I'm interested in is a completed product like the PP usb board and am willing to pay for it. Is this a possibility?
Martin: I have used the 1225 coin cells as they are 12mm dia plus the mounting. Two types of sockets available from Digikey - cheap solder strap (you need to tin the centre pcb pad) of a socket. The socket can go over the top of ICs. I am using them with DS1340C (the internal xtal version). The 1225 only just over half the capacity of the 2025.
If you do decide to sell them, I will buy 2 initially.