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DVI or HDMI shield with true color output: 4.3" plugin works too — Parallax Forums

DVI or HDMI shield with true color output: 4.3" plugin works too

RaymanRayman Posts: 14,595
edited 2013-01-11 04:49 in Propeller 1
This one has taken me several days to design and it'll be a minor miracle if it actually works:
Update: It actually works!

DVI_TrueColorVGA_layout1.png


There are only 2 chips and voltage regulator on this Propeller Platform compatible shield.
The chip on the left (Texas Instruments TFP410) drives the DVI connector on the left edge of the board.
The chip on the right (Solomon SSD1963) delivers 640x480 (essentially VGA) with true color, 24 bits per pixel.

Not even Prop2 will be able to do this without external chips.

Here's a new demo video:

Here's what it looks like on the Prop Platform USB:
Production4.jpg


Update: Just finished up testing the 4.3" touchscreen plugin module and it works too (see post #77 for photos).
So, there will soon be both analog VGA and 4.3" TFT plugin modules for this board available soon.

Another Update: 4.3" touchscreen plugin also works with Newhaven 5" touchscreens with 800x480 resolution.
The capacitive touch version can also work by using a small adapter board to connect the touch connector the DVI shield.

Product Page: http://www.rayslogic.com/Propeller/Products/DviGraphics/DVI.htm
DVI_TrueColorVGA_layout1.png
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Production4.jpg
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Comments

  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,697
    edited 2012-02-21 19:59
    Ooh that sounds very interesting. Look forward to hearing how it goes
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2012-02-21 20:27
    This looks fun. How many prop pins does it need?
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,172
    edited 2012-02-21 20:32
    Rayman wrote: »
    The chip on the left drives the DVI connector on the left edge of the board.
    The chip on the right delivers 640x480 (essentially VGA) with true color, 24 bits per pixel.

    What are their part numbers ?
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,595
    edited 2012-02-22 07:31
    I've updated the top post with the chip names...

    I've used the TFP410 before, so I'm fairly confident that half of the circuit will work.
    The SSD1963, however, is designed to drive TFT LCD panels and not VGA monitors.
    I think people have tried to use the SSD1963 for analog VGA, but I could not find any reports of success.
    As far as I can tell, I'm the first to try it for DVI/HDMI connection...
    That is what has me worried. But, it will be so cool if it works, that I had to try it...

    I'm trying to use as few pins as possible here. I think that will be 12 (P16..P27). But, it may need 2 or 3 more...
  • JT CookJT Cook Posts: 487
    edited 2012-02-22 17:43
    That looks really cool. So what do what kind of data do you have to feed into to get HDMI out? Do you feed in a VGA signal, or do you write to it like a frame buffer, or something else?
  • pedwardpedward Posts: 1,642
    edited 2012-02-22 23:32
    A picture is worth a 1000 words:

    tfp410.png
    tfp410.png
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  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2012-02-23 01:32
    http://www.allshore.com/pdf/solomon_systech_ssd1963.pdf

    Looks like it contains a 1MB framebuffer.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,595
    edited 2012-02-23 02:27
    The input to the HDMI chip is actually the same as the output of the SSD1963 chip (at least very similar) and also the input to the 4.3" TFT LCD touchscreens I sell...

    It is similar to regular VGA except the color is in 24-bit digital form instead of analog... Also, there's pixel clock and data enable signals..


    BTW: If, for some reason, people want regular VGA or NTSC video in true color, we can make a little plug-in board for this board to provide that option pretty easily...
  • Jimmy W.Jimmy W. Posts: 112
    edited 2012-03-01 12:35
    Any update on this? Does it work? Is there a working object?
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,595
    edited 2012-03-01 17:13
    Glad you asked... I just started populating the board today.

    Unfortunately, the SSD1963 proved a bit more difficult to solder by hand that I thought...
    I had 3 boards and 3 chips... Ruined 2 of each, but I think I have this last one right:

    Soldered.jpg


    Maybe tomorrow I'll know if I messed up the layout...
    First step is the get the SSD1963 talking...

    I have an SSD1963 driver working already. Posted about that in another thread...
    Soldered.jpg
    1024 x 768 - 131K
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,595
    edited 2012-03-02 08:06
    I'm still in shock, but guess what.... It works!

    ItWorks.jpg
    ItWorks.jpg
    1024 x 768 - 79K
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2012-03-02 09:11
    Hi Rayman.


    NICE Work
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2012-03-02 09:49
    Rayman,
    First off, nice work.

    Can you make it HDMI instead of DVI ? Just wondering because HDMI seems to be available in most TVs now.

    Do you plan on selling these ? If so what would be a ballpark price ?

    Bean
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2012-03-02 10:43
    Bean wrote: »
    Rayman,
    First off, nice work.

    Can you make it HDMI instead of DVI ? Just wondering because HDMI seems to be available in most TVs now.

    I think that some of the HDMI inputs can accept DVI output. There are several adapters available and it may work ok just by using a cable like this:

    http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023104&p_id=2661&seq=1&format=2

    There are also adapters:

    http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041902&p_id=2029&seq=1&format=2

    http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041902&p_id=2080&seq=1&format=2

    Definitely worth trying out to see if it works.

    Robert
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,595
    edited 2012-03-02 10:47
    I'm fairly confident that you can just use a DVI to HDMI cable to connect to your TV.
    A "real" HDMI signal is slightly different because it uses a packet format and can include sound.
    My DVI chip is using a PanelBus format, which is more basic.
    But, my understanding is that TVs will accept both.

    Assuming everthing checks out, these could be for sale in just 2..3 weeks...
    Ballpark price is $29.99
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2012-03-02 11:13
    DisplayPort uses a packetized format that embeds sound in the stream. HDMI runs sound over its own channel which is very similar to S/PDIF, but can run at higher rates. HDMI DDC info includes sound capabilities, though.
  • Coder96Coder96 Posts: 42
    edited 2012-03-02 11:15
    Any idea how this would compare to the gameduino?
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,595
    edited 2012-03-02 11:46
    Coder96 wrote: »
    Any idea how this would compare to the gameduino?

    Well this has a digital, 24-bit color output at 640x480 , whereas that looks analog at lower resolution.
    This board has an 8-bit wide data bus, whereas that is 1-bit SPI.
    That board looks designed for games and it's possible it would be better for that...
    This one has a lot more pixels to push around and could be slower for full screen updates...
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2012-03-02 11:54
    Congratulations Ray!
    Rayman wrote: »
    I'm still in shock, but guess what.... It works!

    ItWorks.jpg
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,172
    edited 2012-03-02 12:04
    Rayman wrote: »
    Well this has a digital, 24-bit color output at 640x480 ...

    Have you tried 800x480x24 yet ? ;)
    Now you have a raster and a board, you could try an Analog VGA operation ?
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,595
    edited 2012-03-02 12:23
    jmg wrote: »
    Have you tried 800x480x24 yet ? ;)
    Now you have a raster and a board, you could try an Analog VGA operation ?

    You must be reading my mind... I'm pretty happy with VGA, but most HDMI TVs are widescreen, so I'll have to see if that works...

    If you look at the layout in the top post, I've tried to create a 40-pin header in the middle of the board for accessory boards.
    One accessory board could be a 24-bit, 3-channel video DAC that would allow output over regular DB15 VGA cable.
    Also, the DVI connector actually has analog video connections. So, once this board is installed, you could just use a DVI to VGA adapter...
  • CircuitsoftCircuitsoft Posts: 1,166
    edited 2012-03-02 12:30
    If at first you do succeed, try not to look too surprised.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,595
    edited 2012-03-02 17:04
    I was hoping all along this would work, but it was a real gamble as it has never been apparently done before...

    Anyway, this is a truly a day of days in my Propeller graphics adventures...

    Here's a pic of my TV showing a 800x480x24bit photo with this shield loaded from the sd card of the Prop Platform USB board:

    DayOfDays.jpg
    DayOfDays.jpg
    1024 x 768 - 56K
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2012-03-02 17:09
    Rayman,

    That's beautiful, remarkable work! Congratulations!

    Looking at the prices of the components, though, it mystifies me that you could come out okay at a $29 price point. Or is that for the bare boards?

    -Phil
  • Dr_AculaDr_Acula Posts: 5,484
    edited 2012-03-02 19:58
    Oh wow. Very clever work!
  • LawsonLawson Posts: 870
    edited 2012-03-02 21:06
    Rayman wrote: »
    Glad you asked... I just started populating the board today.

    Unfortunately, the SSD1963 proved a bit more difficult to solder by hand that I thought...
    I had 3 boards and 3 chips... Ruined 2 of each, but I think I have this last one right:

    Soldered.jpg


    Maybe tomorrow I'll know if I messed up the layout...
    First step is the get the SSD1963 talking...

    I have an SSD1963 driver working already. Posted about that in another thread...

    Solder Wick is key. I've soldered quite a few 0.65mm lead spacing parts using it. While I usually try to individually solder each pin for practice, I get the best/quickest results with "smash and grab". I.e. soldering the heck out of a bunch of pins, then sucking up all the extra with solder wick. I've even pulled a few chips off a board by using solder wick to remove as much solder as possible, then using a sharp point and a dry soldering iron to bend up each individual pin.

    For VGA, 3x simple R-2R DACs on the 24-bit pixel bus might be enough. (nice calculator)

    Also, this will make for some NICE looking video!

    Lawson
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2012-03-02 21:11
    @Ray,

    Awesome.. Couple Questions...

    How much Propeller memory was used in the program that read that penguins image onto the screen?

    How fast was the screen drawn?

    OBC
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2012-03-03 13:31
    Congratulations Ray! Nice job.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,595
    edited 2012-03-03 18:10
    Thanks guys. The cost may be a $5 more that I originally thought... We'll see...
    Bitmap drawing was slow, but I took a first cut at speeding it up today.. It's not so bad now:

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/a9UHfcLmo8k[/video]

    My test program is a bit bloated with things that aren't being used, but anyway there are still 3,803 longs free.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2012-03-03 18:34
    Brilliant, Ray!

    Cross another item off the "That's impossible with a Propeller" list!
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