Parallax WiFi Module: internal EOL; product discontinued
Ken Gracey
Posts: 7,387
Hello,
Many of our customers have followed our progress developing our WiFi Module. Unfortunately we've made the decision to end further development of this product. I realize that many of you will be disappointed when we're so close to the finish line, but you'll understand the decision as I explain it in more detail even though you may not agree with it. The short explanation is that we can't do everything all the time, and that products with long-term development cycles pose additional challenges (lengthening return on investment, possible obsolescence through new competition, existing customers who have other more important demands, etc.).
Parallax's business is primarily based on adding value and quality to our designs. We don't simply buy and resell too many "things" - having unique electronic and mechanical designs requires a much bigger investment and commitment. We produce educational curriculum, documentation, code examples and design hardware that should bring the customer success. And making things simple can take even more effort. Sometimes we don't realize the full scope of the project until we're immersed in it. This might be an example of something we had to try before we quit.
For example, Parallax's goal with this product was two-fold: to be able to program our processors over WiFi, and to have a serial to WiFi link for communication. The latter has been achieved in many places, with lower-cost designs, but programming over WiFi is another story. It required unique dual-processor firmware in the GS1010/1011 (one to mimic the PC on the microcontroller's side, the other for WiFi) and changes in the BASIC Stamp/Propeller programming environments. Managing the wireless access points and accounting for the variety of configurations on the customer's side is another consideration. Although we have production-ready hardware in our hands, a look at the final firmware development, test procedures and changes to our software made it obvious that final completion would be out of reach. Showing a demo and releasing professional software are a difference of several hundred of hour.
Over the past few months, customer demands on Parallax have also increased. Two big examples come to mind - you've seen the discussion about RadioShack and Microsoft on the forums. These companies outnumber us on a ten-to-one basis from a staff perspective on any given project. Their demands can be very high for a 50-person company, pulling every resource we can draw upon to fill their orders. This includes Kevin, Jeff and David who were actively working on WiFi. Our efforts for RadioShack and Microsoft will benefit more customers than the WiFi Module, putting us in a difficult decision-making position. And we have Propeller customers who we support from Parallax Semiconductor. Their requests also take a high priority because they are building products with far more investment at stake, especially if they're in manufacturing. In addition to these big companies we have a number of other projects in the queue with companies we cannot discuss.
And maybe most importantly, developers were getting worn out. Even people not working on the WiFi Module were tired! Tired by proximity? This leads to low morale, and we don't want that anywhere near us.
Ending the WiFi Module isn't a total loss. Instead, we're taking away the lessons learned and applying them to our next product. For example, Kevin has done more C programming than only a few others in the office - and since Parallax Semiconductor is developing the GCC compiler for Propeller 2 his skills will be useful. The high-density, mixed technology double-sided PCB with battery charging circuitry posed new layout and manufacturing challenges that the team pulled off nicely. And we know exactly what to look for in a WiFi module if we get involved in this again.
Usually our forums only see the success stories from Parallax, but the transparency we all enjoy means you'll see some failures as well. We have an assortment of products in this category, some of which you have never seen (high-volume mechanical DIP programmers, strange robots, etc). In fact, we even have examples of the opposite - products destined for End of Life that came back stronger than ever (S1 robot was slated for EOL before it became a big success as the S2). Come by Parallax for a visit because these examples sit prominently on a shelf in my office, serving as a humble [and very intentional] reminder that we need to use hindsight as compass for future decisions.
I don't know what we'll do with the built-up units, or if they can be provided to somebody who could finish the product. The product has software licensing considerations (Green Hills) and some dependency on Parallax for explaining and documenting our progress. We don't want to put any more engineering time into the project.
I apologize to our customers who were planning on using this product in their design. If you were only interested in wireless programming check the FlashFly or wireless USB hub we offer.
Sincerely,
Ken Gracey
P.S. If you can suggest a favorite serial to WiFi module we should sell we'd be glad to get it in stock and work with our customers to develop a few examples.
Many of our customers have followed our progress developing our WiFi Module. Unfortunately we've made the decision to end further development of this product. I realize that many of you will be disappointed when we're so close to the finish line, but you'll understand the decision as I explain it in more detail even though you may not agree with it. The short explanation is that we can't do everything all the time, and that products with long-term development cycles pose additional challenges (lengthening return on investment, possible obsolescence through new competition, existing customers who have other more important demands, etc.).
Parallax's business is primarily based on adding value and quality to our designs. We don't simply buy and resell too many "things" - having unique electronic and mechanical designs requires a much bigger investment and commitment. We produce educational curriculum, documentation, code examples and design hardware that should bring the customer success. And making things simple can take even more effort. Sometimes we don't realize the full scope of the project until we're immersed in it. This might be an example of something we had to try before we quit.
For example, Parallax's goal with this product was two-fold: to be able to program our processors over WiFi, and to have a serial to WiFi link for communication. The latter has been achieved in many places, with lower-cost designs, but programming over WiFi is another story. It required unique dual-processor firmware in the GS1010/1011 (one to mimic the PC on the microcontroller's side, the other for WiFi) and changes in the BASIC Stamp/Propeller programming environments. Managing the wireless access points and accounting for the variety of configurations on the customer's side is another consideration. Although we have production-ready hardware in our hands, a look at the final firmware development, test procedures and changes to our software made it obvious that final completion would be out of reach. Showing a demo and releasing professional software are a difference of several hundred of hour.
Over the past few months, customer demands on Parallax have also increased. Two big examples come to mind - you've seen the discussion about RadioShack and Microsoft on the forums. These companies outnumber us on a ten-to-one basis from a staff perspective on any given project. Their demands can be very high for a 50-person company, pulling every resource we can draw upon to fill their orders. This includes Kevin, Jeff and David who were actively working on WiFi. Our efforts for RadioShack and Microsoft will benefit more customers than the WiFi Module, putting us in a difficult decision-making position. And we have Propeller customers who we support from Parallax Semiconductor. Their requests also take a high priority because they are building products with far more investment at stake, especially if they're in manufacturing. In addition to these big companies we have a number of other projects in the queue with companies we cannot discuss.
And maybe most importantly, developers were getting worn out. Even people not working on the WiFi Module were tired! Tired by proximity? This leads to low morale, and we don't want that anywhere near us.
Ending the WiFi Module isn't a total loss. Instead, we're taking away the lessons learned and applying them to our next product. For example, Kevin has done more C programming than only a few others in the office - and since Parallax Semiconductor is developing the GCC compiler for Propeller 2 his skills will be useful. The high-density, mixed technology double-sided PCB with battery charging circuitry posed new layout and manufacturing challenges that the team pulled off nicely. And we know exactly what to look for in a WiFi module if we get involved in this again.
Usually our forums only see the success stories from Parallax, but the transparency we all enjoy means you'll see some failures as well. We have an assortment of products in this category, some of which you have never seen (high-volume mechanical DIP programmers, strange robots, etc). In fact, we even have examples of the opposite - products destined for End of Life that came back stronger than ever (S1 robot was slated for EOL before it became a big success as the S2). Come by Parallax for a visit because these examples sit prominently on a shelf in my office, serving as a humble [and very intentional] reminder that we need to use hindsight as compass for future decisions.
I don't know what we'll do with the built-up units, or if they can be provided to somebody who could finish the product. The product has software licensing considerations (Green Hills) and some dependency on Parallax for explaining and documenting our progress. We don't want to put any more engineering time into the project.
I apologize to our customers who were planning on using this product in their design. If you were only interested in wireless programming check the FlashFly or wireless USB hub we offer.
Sincerely,
Ken Gracey
P.S. If you can suggest a favorite serial to WiFi module we should sell we'd be glad to get it in stock and work with our customers to develop a few examples.
Comments
Bummer! But I can understand. You guys are smart cookies knowing when to cut the loses.
What to do with Bill and Walt? May need to send out grief management crews.
Jim
Indeed, I thought about those two people the whole time. Nothing like disappointing two people who support us so well on the outside.
Ken Gracey
Any chance of selling the boards at a reduced cost (Ebay? Red Cross Fundraiser?) and providing the documentation to this point....there are some smart cookies on the forums that might be able to get something working and we could all learn more.
Since your custom WiFi project isn't going to happen why not look into the WiFi modules in the XBee form factor??
http://www.digi.com/products/wireless-wired-embedded-solutions/zigbee-rf-modules/point-multipoint-rfmodules/xbee-wi-fi#overview
They should work well with the adapter boards you already offer.
Robert
A disappointment, but certainly understandable.
Class is in session...
I learned a long time ago that education will always "cost" something, whether you pay to learn it in a classroom, or learn it in the school of the "real world." The lessons learned through the process will benefit future endeavors.
The redirected energies will lead to excitement from the designers in new products! I'm looking forward to seeing what Kevin cooks up next.
OBC
Hello Robert, I've seen these discussed on our forums and I'll get a few on order today. I just haven't had the time to read the thread and understand how it works, what kind of software tools may be available, etc. Have we seen much success among Parallax customers with the XBee WiFi modules?
Thanks, Ken
I know, I know. I sent him a PM. . . I feel crushed just as badly.
Roving Networks sells similar modules, also in the XBee footprint, that are about $10-15 cheaper. I don't know the quality, but at least there are options.
http://www.rovingnetworks.com/XVee.php
It's a shame the WiFi project had to be shelved, but this sort of thing happens. But a third-party XBee footprint module, provided by Parallax with one of their handy adapters, should satisfy most customers.
-- Gordon
Hanno may have some experience with the WiFi versions with 12Blocks and Viewport.
You made the right decision for Parallax. I'll start looking for a different serial to WiFi thingy.
--Bill
Oh. Bill, I'm glad you've processed the shock and that you're here for another round.
Walt is still missing, but I hope he surfaces soon.
I'll get some of these XBee WiFi gizmos on order right away and see what we can do with them. I realize there's tons of info right here on the forums and several people are using them but I've not had the opportunity to read those threads yet.
- Ken
Maybe more info is available and maybe some hobbyists have shared their experience (and example code)...
-Ron
Yes, the TBot's communication stack is quite powerful:
- you can program one or more TBot's over wireless faster than over a direct USB connection
- you can monitor and change variables in remote TBot's in real time- with real time graphing of sensors
- TBot's can share data with each other in a globally shared memory- making swarming and cooperation easy
Get yours today! http://onerobot.org
Here's a guide- with schematics, getting started, instructions, challenges... http://onerobot.org/tbot_guide.pdf
Hanno
That is a bummer, but sometimes it is best to fall on your sword and know when to cut your loses.
Bean
I was really looking Fwd to them as BT is short rrange and n Bee is not IN a computer .......
ohh welll I guess a spinnernet and a Ethernet to WIFI bridge is the same . but not as compact ..] or as cheap .....
Peter
Does anyone have experience with the DataBridge Wireless I/O Module? My "needs" have always revolved around a wireless serial port.
--Bill
'
I think the XBEE 802.11 will work here just fine.
'
Since it is my birthday, Can I suggest an XBEE 802.11 WiFi design contest.
'
This worked out really good for the Spinneret
'
It generated some really good code.(by forum members)
'
It also let all of us follow it's invention as a usable product and be able to ask questions.(We can all look back at the Spinneret Forum's to follow this)
I am using the Spinneret as we speak...(But with wires)
'
Yes I'm 39 again
We've got some great friends at Digi, so let me see if I can coax them into co-sponsoring a design contest around the XBee WiFi module. I'll drop them an e-mail tonight and follow up with a call tomorrow. This could coincide very nicely with the fact that 500 RadioShack stores will be selling the XBee modules in a few weeks [maybe they'll want the WiFi module next].
We could call it "Wacky Walt's XBee WiFi Design Contest!" Sounds like a good name but our marketeers will squash that kind of name pretty quickly. Bless their hearts anyway.
Ken Gracey
'
If I want to open my gate/garage door, I'd like to just simply grab my phone.
'
Take a dip in the pool?, Wheres my phone, I want to know the water temperature first.
'
We know how to write and use code for the Stamps and the Propeller.
'
But the average Joe shopping at RadioShack,not so much. Now if the average Joe can down load some code from the Parallax site to this new micro-device and add a WiFi thingy and install a new app. on his smart-phone,Then turn stuff on and off with no wires with his phone,... Awesome (A big seller)
'
The WiFi is only gonna get bigger. Its getting put into more and more products.Its gonna be the norm for the next-gen smart-phones.(Hi-Power WiFi)
'
I wouldn't let Parallax fall into that Marketeer mode (I don't understand WiFi so lets drop it...Its too time consuming...What does WiFi do anyway?)
'
Having some good Stamp and Prop code for the XBEE WiFI module would be a necessity.
'
'
Wacky Walt
It takes great wisdom, self awareness and clear vision to be able to walk away from something in which effort has been invested. It seems to me that you guys possess all three and I admire your ability to maintain focus, re-evaluate and adjust, even when it clearly is painful. And you are right, there is nothing worse for an organization than to burn out the people in it. So, good call given the circumstances you describe.
I am sure there will be opportunities to fill wifi needs using other wacky alternatives ...
Thanks ypapelis. Too young for wisdom, too fast to have self awareness, and too much work for clear vision. I still appreciate the compliment you paid to Parallax and I think the whole team is ready to move forward together.
We are truly thankful to have customers who can appreciate the reasons without chucking tomatoes our direction.
Ken Gracey
Of course, Parallax being so open lets us all see the realities in the real world. Most companies can hide this sort of thing. Thanks for being so open, it is a credit to Parallax.
No good crying over spilt milk either. So onto the next design, whatever that may be, and hopefully it will be far more rewarding.
So what's next Ken???
Single board computers with host USB ports are coming down significantly in price lately. Those devices are able to connect USB Wifi modules and are pretty capable. I imagine those devices capped the price Parallax could charge for a WiFi module too.
I use the WiFly module and love it. Roving Networks is a solid company to work with. The interface is simple and i have wifi enabled several projects of my own. In-fact i am currently working on a WIFI enabled light switch. Hope this helps.
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2884
They are intended for use with PICs, but they could be used with other MCUs as they have a standard SPI interface. I have a couple of them on PICtail boards which work OK with the PIC32 Starter kit and expansion board and Explorer 16 board with a dsPIC.
Nice thought, but your suggestion is of very little use at present since these modules are designed to work with a PIC-specific TCP/IP stack. Their SPI interface, while using standard hardware signaling, does not appear to have any useful documentation on the actual API for the module. You have to use their TCP/IP stack (and a PIC to run it). Perhaps once these have been on the market for a while, Microchip will document the actual module interface well enough for use with other microcontrollers ... perhaps not. Better to use modules designed for use with any microcontroller.
Parallax, Inc. displays an ethic towards employees, vendors and customers that I really appreicate.
Thank you Ken and all of Parallax.
- jeffa