Regarding windows and complexity, I came across the same issue recently with the efforts in C, and I am thinking at the moment that you only have one window, but you can have a special case popup dialog window that asks questions "yes/no" and is an input box. Thinking of other "special case" windows, that might also include the file directory dialog box from the .net programs, and the color picker box.
Generally these boxes/windows need immediate input from the user, and once something is selected (a file or whatever), the box is closed. This is very different from the behavior of windows that stay open all the time.
The popup dialog can capture the screen behind it first, then ask for input, and then redraw the screen behind afterwards. And you have to blank the mouse as well during those redraws.
Yes, this is exactly what I've come to for this as well...
I can't speak for the propgfx users on that one, but my experience is that modern TVs and TV LCD displays can handle NTSC and PAL and will automatically switch between the two, so maybe this does not matter nearly so much as it used to back when I were a lad...
Dr_A,
The reason I ask is because USA and Canada TVs don't seem to care about any other region, even 10 years back, all my TVs had PAL+NTSC, even cheap makes had PAL+NTSC, whereas when I was over in the US and Canada both countries TVs didn't have PAL options, even in the Sony stores over there.
I know 10 years is a long time, but they had no sign of adopting PAL options back then, and I don't know if it's still the same, as most people on here from the US need NTSC drivers over PAL.
Most every real TV I have will not display PAL in color. A fair number of them will display the monochrome signal, but they are pissy about it. Most every TV will do 50 and 60 HZ NTSC though. We've not really done that trick here in Prop land, but 50Hz NTSC offers a better blanking time, and a overall speed match up with PAL. (I did see this being done on Amiga and of all things, the CoCo 3 will display 50Hz NTSC)
My only access to PAL is via capture card. IMHO, the US is kind of crappy about this, with multi-region devices being very rare. When doing some CoCo 3 programming to display artifact colors on that computer (256 of them), I worked with a friend in Australia, who also found it very difficult to obtain a NTSC capable TV, so there is some of the opposite going on in various parts of the world. Annoying, if you ask me.
If there are going to be tweaks, how about S-video? It's only a coupla bits, and the display quality is significantly improved.
All that said, I'm happy to work on either one, but I never have seen a PAL display that looked good on a Prop. If I tweak it, it can look kind of sort of good. Color variances are high, due to PAL requiring more precision than the prop is capable of, IMHO. Monochrome PAL is great!! But, I'll deal because I know the PAL users out there often have to deal too. We all just deal
Now, I have to wonder whether or not more scans can be coaxed from NTSC displays... The 50Hz ones I've seen all kept the scan count the same, just stretching VBLANK. Maybe that can change. If it can, it sure won't render on many digital displays, but the analog ones might work, as might the capture cards and such.
I'm just having an VSync issue with Gadget Gangster setup, so I'll just post a vid for the moment of it running on Hybrid with PropGFX Lite.
And will post code once I have it working correctly on Gadget Gangster board also.
Thanks Cluso99 me too, which is why I wrote it, I was the first person in our area to get to complete all 6 stages, and won £10 which was a LOT of money way back then ;D
it was a clever idea for them to have a £10 prize for the first to complete all 6 stages, as they must have raked the money in for them haha.
We used to have big problems back in the 80s. Plenty came from the usa (NTSC) and plently from Europe, our PAL is know as "N" (for no-compatible, I'd think) as it has a chroma clock of 3.58 MHz but is 50 Hz... don't ask me who was the clever who came with such a hack... and most TVs were synchronous (the would not use the provided sync ), like my old Philips 20"... Made in Argentina!
I thought that maybe those were PAL or NTSC only. I wonder if a 50 Hz version of NTSC would work (or the other way around)... but as you (Sapiaha) say not all drivers work
Let's say I'm not going to solder two protoboards together. I'm not. I've built up the PropGFX protoboard, and it works so far. I'm wanting to connect it to a PPDB, just plugging into the other propeller pins with the headers supplied.
Is there a problem with power supply variances and such? Floating grounds? Not sure... I'm gonna split the supply I have, which is a simple wall wart type, and drive both boards, because I only brought one with me. Am I about to botch something?
BTW: I found no instances of NTSC 50Hz displaying extra scan lines Baggers. It seems to me, a longer VBLANK so far. When I get back to my Color Computer III, which does output this, I'll have to scope it to see what it is doing. A while back, I toggled the 50Hz switch in it's graphics chip, and sure enough! Out came NTSC running at 50Hz. Never did try a capture card to see if one of those would work, but most TV's did. I think this happened on the AMIGA too, for NTSC / PAL speed compatibility.
I'm not gonna hook the two together until I know. I have a spare Prop for the PPDB, but it's a one time shot for the Proto Board.
Again, the question is simple: I have one wall wart. If I connect both boards to it, can I then connect both Propellers directly? I think I can, but I would rather know before annoying myself for the rest of the week!
Right now I have a ribbon cable soldered to the pins on the Proto Board. It's got a header on it that can be plugged into the pin headers on the PPDB, direct connection.
Let me know, if I need to provide some other data. (and yes, I should know better, but I don't, and so better safe than sorry)
I'm running two Propeller protoboards off a single walwart. I removed the power connected from one of the boards, tied Vss,Vdd,3v,5v connections together. The 5v regulator runs warmer than it would have, but have around 30 hours of run time on it so far without issues.
Potatohead,
You will be ok to connect the two Props together as long as you have a common ground.
So your interface cable will be 11 wires, 10 for the databus P0-P9 on the PropGFX and VSS (Gnd)
Just make sure that you don't connect the 5V or 3V3 together! (I'm sure you know that already though )
Regards,
Coley
EDIT - Reading what OBC just wrote, regarding connecting the 3V3 and 5V, I wouldn't do it as some regulators will can go short circuit if you do this.
It all depends on your setup......
When I built the prototypes up for DuoGFX (two Parallax proto boards stacked) I removed the regulators from one of the PCB's and commoned up the supplies from the other.
Missed VSS. Will be adding that one. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks OBC & Coley. Edit: Actually, had I not missed that one, I might not have asked this question. Funny how that works.
That's not a bad idea removing the regulator. Maybe I should just do it on the Protoboard, and tap off the PPDB. Will think about it later. Probably won't though, if VSS is the real answer, best to do that. I'll have multiple supplies, or one bench tap to work from in the future. Just didn't pack the right goodies.
That's not a bad idea removing the regulator. Maybe I should just do it on the Protoboard, and tap off the PPDB. Will think about it later. Probably won't though, if VSS is the real answer, best to do that. I'll have multiple supplies, or one bench tap to work from in the future. Just didn't pack the right goodies.
It's a bit extreme but it does work, just depends if you need to re-use the board later, if you do just lift the regulator legs off the PCB
Comments
Yes, this is exactly what I've come to for this as well...
Spin.. Of course..
OBC
The reason I ask is because USA and Canada TVs don't seem to care about any other region, even 10 years back, all my TVs had PAL+NTSC, even cheap makes had PAL+NTSC, whereas when I was over in the US and Canada both countries TVs didn't have PAL options, even in the Sony stores over there.
I know 10 years is a long time, but they had no sign of adopting PAL options back then, and I don't know if it's still the same, as most people on here from the US need NTSC drivers over PAL.
My only access to PAL is via capture card. IMHO, the US is kind of crappy about this, with multi-region devices being very rare. When doing some CoCo 3 programming to display artifact colors on that computer (256 of them), I worked with a friend in Australia, who also found it very difficult to obtain a NTSC capable TV, so there is some of the opposite going on in various parts of the world. Annoying, if you ask me.
If there are going to be tweaks, how about S-video? It's only a coupla bits, and the display quality is significantly improved.
All that said, I'm happy to work on either one, but I never have seen a PAL display that looked good on a Prop. If I tweak it, it can look kind of sort of good. Color variances are high, due to PAL requiring more precision than the prop is capable of, IMHO. Monochrome PAL is great!! But, I'll deal because I know the PAL users out there often have to deal too. We all just deal
is the 50hz ntsc hard to set up? for say the parallax tv driver?
Regards,
Coley
Now, I have to wonder whether or not more scans can be coaxed from NTSC displays... The 50Hz ones I've seen all kept the scan count the same, just stretching VBLANK. Maybe that can change. If it can, it sure won't render on many digital displays, but the analog ones might work, as might the capture cards and such.
Then look at modifying it to fit into NTSC screen space!
And will post code once I have it working correctly on Gadget Gangster board also.
it was a clever idea for them to have a £10 prize for the first to complete all 6 stages, as they must have raked the money in for them haha.
NO - Some nice TFT TV mpnitors to small DVD's in Europe are only PAL.
I have that ones. And not all drivers will function with them
Is there a problem with power supply variances and such? Floating grounds? Not sure... I'm gonna split the supply I have, which is a simple wall wart type, and drive both boards, because I only brought one with me. Am I about to botch something?
And good look setting your board up!
I'm not gonna hook the two together until I know. I have a spare Prop for the PPDB, but it's a one time shot for the Proto Board.
Again, the question is simple: I have one wall wart. If I connect both boards to it, can I then connect both Propellers directly? I think I can, but I would rather know before annoying myself for the rest of the week!
Right now I have a ribbon cable soldered to the pins on the Proto Board. It's got a header on it that can be plugged into the pin headers on the PPDB, direct connection.
Let me know, if I need to provide some other data. (and yes, I should know better, but I don't, and so better safe than sorry)
OBC
You will be ok to connect the two Props together as long as you have a common ground.
So your interface cable will be 11 wires, 10 for the databus P0-P9 on the PropGFX and VSS (Gnd)
Just make sure that you don't connect the 5V or 3V3 together! (I'm sure you know that already though
Regards,
Coley
EDIT - Reading what OBC just wrote, regarding connecting the 3V3 and 5V, I wouldn't do it as some regulators will can go short circuit if you do this.
It all depends on your setup......
When I built the prototypes up for DuoGFX (two Parallax proto boards stacked) I removed the regulators from one of the PCB's and commoned up the supplies from the other.
That's not a bad idea removing the regulator. Maybe I should just do it on the Protoboard, and tap off the PPDB. Will think about it later. Probably won't though, if VSS is the real answer, best to do that. I'll have multiple supplies, or one bench tap to work from in the future. Just didn't pack the right goodies.
It's a bit extreme but it does work, just depends if you need to re-use the board later, if you do just lift the regulator legs off the PCB
Here's what I did.....
OBC