The boards are still in progress. I built and tested one and all is fine and dandy. I've been very busy. I'll try to get the boards to volume FAB before mid June.
One issue that comes up is finding cheap female connectors for the Propeller Island pins.
I'm now inclined to sacrifice some power plane copper to make a single 8 pin header connection possible and if i can I'll add the Propeller Protoboard's VSS/VDD for modules like your 8xSPI SRAM. I can not however guarantee a perfect match to the Protoboard's pin spacing.
Having single row .1" 8 pin headers around the Propeller will allow using up these stacking headers that I have here on hand. Several of the headers will be used, so a nice discount can be had there for them in a kit form.
As far as some of the other requests go, that is all TBD.
jazzed, No rush. I just wanted to squeak this wheel* a bit.
Have you considered using two units of single row headers to use with the double row of holes? I thought the headers (and other components) were our own responsibility.
It would be nice if you could get a deal on the needed parts by purchasing them in bulk and then sell them with the boards. I wasn't expecting this but it could be very helpful.
*I don't know how international the expression "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" is. It means the task or problem that is the most conspicuous gets worked on first. (Or something like that.)
Have you considered using two units of single row headers to use with the double row of holes? I thought the headers (and other components) were our own responsibility.
Two units of single-row side-by side can be done, but i would have to put capacitors on the bottom of the board. SMT decoupling capacitors on the bottom is not so bad electrically speaking, but that would raise the cost of volume pre-assembled boards.
I could just move the current headers so that everything is 0.1" apart. Of course the current pin numbering scheme would remain the same as is now, but PropellerProtoboard-like pin configurations (pin-out) would not work.
I'm not sure which is more important: protoboard-like pin-out or having 4 Propeller islands. I'm not sure i can do both. Currently the pins are number even in one column and odd in the next something like this and most likely will remain the same:
I thought the headers (and other components) were our own responsibility.
Well yes, but i have about 1000 of the 8 pin stackable headers like used with the arduino boards, and I can sell them much cheaper than what you would have to pay for them individually. The stackable headers are fine for the Propeller Platform module headers (2 pieces would need to be broken down for the 4 pin power headers) and the next revision TetraProp Propeller Island pins.
It would be nice if you could get a deal on the needed parts by purchasing them in bulk and then sell them with the boards. I wasn't expecting this but it could be very helpful.
I can make kits for everyone, but I'll have to charge overhead for doing that.
Buying lots of Propellers is an expensive proposition: my risk reward ratio has to be positive and overhead must cover all costs including special packaging if necessary.
I'll provide a parts list later if you like and you can decide what the different options for kitting/assembly might be worth.
BTW, I'm seriously considering making the oscillator pins normal size instead of pin-socket size. Please comment on this if you don't want it to happen.
Well yes, but i have about 1000 of the 8 pin stackable headers like used with the arduino boards, and I can sell them much cheaper than what you would have to pay for them individually.
I misunderstood your earlier post. I thought you where having trouble find the 8 pin (2x4) stackable headers.
I personally like the last board you posted a picture of. I assume your problem with finding headers is for a different layout.
I might be in the minority in thinking the 2x4 headers are fine.
I can make kits for everyone, but I'll have to charge overhead for doing that.
What? The solder fumes aren't reward enough? (It was funnier the first time I wrote it.)
Yes, Please make money on this. It would be nice to be able to buy parts (stackable headers), at a lower price than elsewhere, from you.
Buying lots of Propellers is an expensive proposition: my risk reward ratio has to be positive and overhead must cover all costs including special packaging if necessary.
Yeah, I think stocking a bunch of Propellers would be expensive. I'm expecting to need to purchase my own.
I'll provide a parts list later if you like and you can decide what the different options for kitting/assembly might be worth.
This would be great. I don't think it's essential though. I'm mainly after the boards.
BTW, I'm seriously considering making the oscillator pins normal size instead of pin-socket size. Please comment on this if you don't want it to happen.
This could be a major problem. I very much would like to be able to switch crystals. Would normal female headers work with a crystal?
Not being able to switch crystals could be a deal breaker for me.
Thanks for the update. Don't worry about getting these done on my account (not that you are). They will be fun to play with but I really don't know what I'm going to do with twenty Props yet.
I misunderstood your earlier post. I thought you where having trouble find the 8 pin (2x4) stackable headers.
2x4 is hard to find. 1x8 is much easier. I'll most likely use 2 1x8's for the islands because I have them and it makes sense to use as many of the same part as possible.
but I really don't know what I'm going to do with twenty Props yet.
I'll be playing with a BLSR (Bidirectional Line Switched Ring) and a Super HUB concept for communications. I do believe that Propeller has lots of potential with regard to neural networks and I will play with that after I get some other things up and running.
I'll finish changes this weekend and get quotes for 20+ boards on Monday.
The propeller pin headers are the same as before except they are now 8x 0.1".
Below is the layout for the TetraProp Rev.A1 board.
Those of you who have expressed an interest in this module, please review the changes below.
TetraProp A1 Boards have been sent to FAB. Expect delivery by July 9th.
Thanks.
There are a few differences between A0 and A1.
Headers for Propeller Islands are 2x8 allowing for a cheaper stacking solution.
Even numbered pins P(2n) are on the left side of all headers.
The large through-hole cap has been removed since 10uF bulk is possible on each island.
High frequency bypass caps are not as close to pins as I would like, but they are suitable.
VIN, 5V, 3.3, GND labels are more clearly marked.
Each P0-P15 header is accompanied by power and ground.
All Propeller headers and crystal pins are aligned to a 0.1" grid for perf-board connections.
Each P0-P15 header is accompanied by power and ground.
All Propeller island headers* are aligned to a 0.1" grid for breadboard connections.
*Note: while the island headers are on a 0.1" grid, it is not possible to have them on the same grid as the PropellerPlatform headers.
A couple of quick questions/comments:
All of the 2x8 headers are aligned to the same grid, but this grid is not the same as the PP grid (or any other board locations)? It looks like they are very close to the PP headers grid.
Power and ground are the holes labeled 2 and 3 to the left of P0-P15?
All of the 2x8 headers are aligned to the same grid, but this grid is not the same as the PP grid (or any other board locations)? It looks like they are very close to the PP headers grid.
Yes. I just don't have much wiggle room with the layout.
I may already have some of the caps and resistors needed to build the board. If not I'm sure I can find them. The only thing that would really help is to confirm what the package style is for these parts:
100nf cap
10uf cap
1M ohm resistor
4.7K ohm resistor
If I'm reading the parts list correctly then it looks like all of these are 0805 size parts except for the 10uf cap.
I've been soldering through-hole forever but haven't done any SMT except for a couple small boards with mostly resistors and caps. Would this be a tough board for a SMT rookie to tackle?
I've been soldering through-hole forever but haven't done any SMT except for a couple small boards with mostly resistors and caps. Would this be a tough board for a SMT rookie to tackle?
If you have patience, good vision, good tools and know the techniques, it is easy.
Some people use solder paste, stencil, and an oven even for single boards. Others do it all by hand.
Look at some YouTube videos to get ideas or find a friend that knows how to do it.
There is so much SMT on the TetraProp board that you can get lots of practice.
However, TetraProp is probably not a good beginners SMT board.
If you have patience, good vision, good tools and know the techniques, it is easy.
Some people use solder paste, stencil, and an oven even for single boards. Others do it all by hand.
Look at some YouTube videos to get ideas or find a friend that knows how to do it.
There is so much SMT on the TetraProp board that you can get lots of practice.
However, TetraProp is probably not a good beginners SMT board.
It's not too hard, but it does take some practice to hand solder SMT components. The biggest problems for this board will probably be related to be soldering the Propeller chips themselves. If you make a mistake, like soldering them in the wrong orientation, it can be very difficult to get them off the board without destroying them. Ideally, you would use a hot air rework station for this if you have one (I don't have one yet but I think it's on the short list).
As jazzed mentioned, good vision is also important. Unfortunately, my close vision isn't quite what it used to be. I'll be soldering mine with either a 2x visor or binocular scope.
Comments
I'm looking forward to these boards.
Remember, I'm in for 5.
I've been trying to think of a good application for twenty Propellers working together.
Duane
The boards are still in progress. I built and tested one and all is fine and dandy. I've been very busy. I'll try to get the boards to volume FAB before mid June.
One issue that comes up is finding cheap female connectors for the Propeller Island pins.
I'm now inclined to sacrifice some power plane copper to make a single 8 pin header connection possible and if i can I'll add the Propeller Protoboard's VSS/VDD for modules like your 8xSPI SRAM. I can not however guarantee a perfect match to the Protoboard's pin spacing.
Having single row .1" 8 pin headers around the Propeller will allow using up these stacking headers that I have here on hand. Several of the headers will be used, so a nice discount can be had there for them in a kit form.
As far as some of the other requests go, that is all TBD.
Have you considered using two units of single row headers to use with the double row of holes? I thought the headers (and other components) were our own responsibility.
It would be nice if you could get a deal on the needed parts by purchasing them in bulk and then sell them with the boards. I wasn't expecting this but it could be very helpful.
*I don't know how international the expression "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" is. It means the task or problem that is the most conspicuous gets worked on first. (Or something like that.)
Duane
I could just move the current headers so that everything is 0.1" apart. Of course the current pin numbering scheme would remain the same as is now, but PropellerProtoboard-like pin configurations (pin-out) would not work.
I'm not sure which is more important: protoboard-like pin-out or having 4 Propeller islands. I'm not sure i can do both. Currently the pins are number even in one column and odd in the next something like this and most likely will remain the same: Well yes, but i have about 1000 of the 8 pin stackable headers like used with the arduino boards, and I can sell them much cheaper than what you would have to pay for them individually. The stackable headers are fine for the Propeller Platform module headers (2 pieces would need to be broken down for the 4 pin power headers) and the next revision TetraProp Propeller Island pins.
I can make kits for everyone, but I'll have to charge overhead for doing that.
Buying lots of Propellers is an expensive proposition: my risk reward ratio has to be positive and overhead must cover all costs including special packaging if necessary.
I'll provide a parts list later if you like and you can decide what the different options for kitting/assembly might be worth.
BTW, I'm seriously considering making the oscillator pins normal size instead of pin-socket size. Please comment on this if you don't want it to happen.
I had an extremely witty and I'm sure poetic reply written and I got a connection error when I clicked the "Preview Post" button.
I'll try to remember what I wrote.
I misunderstood your earlier post. I thought you where having trouble find the 8 pin (2x4) stackable headers.
I personally like the last board you posted a picture of. I assume your problem with finding headers is for a different layout.
I might be in the minority in thinking the 2x4 headers are fine.
What? The solder fumes aren't reward enough? (It was funnier the first time I wrote it.)
Yes, Please make money on this. It would be nice to be able to buy parts (stackable headers), at a lower price than elsewhere, from you.
Yeah, I think stocking a bunch of Propellers would be expensive. I'm expecting to need to purchase my own.
This would be great. I don't think it's essential though. I'm mainly after the boards.
This could be a major problem. I very much would like to be able to switch crystals. Would normal female headers work with a crystal?
Not being able to switch crystals could be a deal breaker for me.
Thanks for the update. Don't worry about getting these done on my account (not that you are). They will be fun to play with but I really don't know what I'm going to do with twenty Props yet.
Duane
I really appreciate this comment! I have a fan to keep the fumes away but it always makes me feel strange for some reason.
That's probably a good idea. I doubt I'll have too many orders for fully assembled boards (minus Propeller Platform and Propeller Island headers).
I'll stick with the machine pin sockets for swapping crystals.
I'll be playing with a BLSR (Bidirectional Line Switched Ring) and a Super HUB concept for communications. I do believe that Propeller has lots of potential with regard to neural networks and I will play with that after I get some other things up and running.
I'll finish changes this weekend and get quotes for 20+ boards on Monday.
The propeller pin headers are the same as before except they are now 8x 0.1".
Those of you who have expressed an interest in this module, please review the changes below.
TetraProp A1 Boards have been sent to FAB. Expect delivery by July 9th.
Thanks.
There are a few differences between A0 and A1.
A couple of quick questions/comments:
All of the 2x8 headers are aligned to the same grid, but this grid is not the same as the PP grid (or any other board locations)? It looks like they are very close to the PP headers grid.
Power and ground are the holes labeled 2 and 3 to the left of P0-P15?
Opportunity to make more clear labeling, but again i don't have room.
VDD is on pin 3 and ground is on pin 1.
I'll probably change it to VBG where possible - V (Vdd), B (BOE*), and G (ground).
Thanks schill
I've managed to get all of TetraProp headers and the oscillator pins on a 0.1" grid!
This will allow using any perf-board to give TetraProp a different "personality" without soldering wires on the TetraProp board itself.
This makes TetraProp customizable to any configuration by just swapping the personality perf-board.
A request for quote has been sent to the board house for 50 boards. I should have boards by July 9th.
If I might ask, what is the purpose of C3 and C10 and why are they only in the left 2 cells?
Thanks,
Al
Please post the number of boards you are buying here in case your needs have changed since your original purchase offer.
PM with your mailing address, and I'll respond with my PayPal email and the total order cost.
Price list (1):
- 1 to 9 boards at $12.50 each
- 10 to 19 boards at $11 each
- 20 to 49 boards at $10 each
- 50 to 99 boards at $9 each
- 1x8 headers at $0.30 each
- Assembled board + headers at $99 each (2)(3)
Notes (1),(2),(3):Are you selling the stackable headers also? If so, how much?
Duane
Thanks for the orders so far.
--Steve
Partslist summary shows 16 machine pins for crystals. Only 8 are required.
Thanks. Do you happen to have recommended manufacturer/Digikey/Mouser part numbers for the resistors and capacitors?
100nf cap
10uf cap
1M ohm resistor
4.7K ohm resistor
If I'm reading the parts list correctly then it looks like all of these are 0805 size parts except for the 10uf cap.
Thanks jazzed.
I've been soldering through-hole forever but haven't done any SMT except for a couple small boards with mostly resistors and caps. Would this be a tough board for a SMT rookie to tackle?
Thanks!
Thank You! That's just want I needed to know. I think I have some of these parts and the others will be easy to get. Looking forward to your boards.
Robert
Some people use solder paste, stencil, and an oven even for single boards. Others do it all by hand.
Look at some YouTube videos to get ideas or find a friend that knows how to do it.
There is so much SMT on the TetraProp board that you can get lots of practice.
However, TetraProp is probably not a good beginners SMT board.
Expect my order over the weekend..
Are special requests for one with a single (or two) Propellers on them out of the question?
(Naturally, I would expect some additional cost.)
OBC
It's not too hard, but it does take some practice to hand solder SMT components. The biggest problems for this board will probably be related to be soldering the Propeller chips themselves. If you make a mistake, like soldering them in the wrong orientation, it can be very difficult to get them off the board without destroying them. Ideally, you would use a hot air rework station for this if you have one (I don't have one yet but I think it's on the short list).
As jazzed mentioned, good vision is also important. Unfortunately, my close vision isn't quite what it used to be. I'll be soldering mine with either a 2x visor or binocular scope.