Probally some like me already put an order in so that we will be first in line when they become available.
Cole is correct. Once an on-line order has been made the database keeps track of other items purchased, regardless of their actual availability in our inventory.
That said, I'm a bit concerned about the pin-out of the 40 Pin connector. It seems to be incompatible to any existing standard, and consecutive pin numbers are zig-zag left and right placed on the connector.
...The layout of the 40-pin header will probably change to better accommodate the WiFi module....
If you really change the layout, why not make it compatible to other Parallax Propeller boards?
Here is a proposal for a pin-out which is mostly compatible to the C3 and also to a 10pin Expansion connector. This 10pin expansion can be found 4 times around the Propeller on the ProtoBoard and therefore many have adapted this layout.
I had to omit the RTS and CTS and replaced theme with another set of 3.3V and GND. This has the advantage that you can split the 40pin connector to 2x20 pins and have power connections on both sides.
I know that this is a big change to an already finished board layout, but I thought I present the idea anyway.
If they leave GND and 3v3 where it is right now, then two of my in-production prototype boards will work with QuickStart right away, and I have three more boards that I should be getting by Monday that would also be compatible...
If they move 5V to where I have it on my 40 pin connectors, then it would compatible with even more of my boards - which means more off-the-shelf third party products that would be immediately available for QuickStart.
Assuming that Parallax has QuickStart boards at UPEW I will be able to show them with my prototyping boards there...
Now I do like the idea of making 20pins of the 40 C3 compatible - but PLEASE leave GND and 3v3 where they are! (they can add more Vcc/GND pins)
That said, I'm a bit concerned about the pin-out of the 40 Pin connector. It seems to be incompatible to any existing standard, and consecutive pin numbers are zig-zag left and right placed on the connector.
If you really change the layout, why not make it compatible to other Parallax Propeller boards?
Here is a proposal for a pin-out which is mostly compatible to the C3 and also to a 10pin Expansion connector. This 10pin expansion can be found 4 times around the Propeller on the ProtoBoard and therefore many have adapted this layout.
I had to omit the RTS and CTS and replaced theme with another set of 3.3V and GND. This has the advantage that you can split the 40pin connector to 2x20 pins and have power connections on both sides.
I know that this is a big change to an already finished board layout, but I thought I present the idea anyway.
If they leave GND and 3v3 where it is right now, then two of my in-production prototype boards will work with QuickStart right away, and I have three more boards that I should be getting by Monday that would also be compatible...
If they move 5V to where I have it on my 40 pin connectors, then it would compatible with even more of my boards - which means more off-the-shelf third party products that would be immediately available for QuickStart.
Assuming that Parallax has QuickStart boards at UPEW I will be able to show them with my prototyping boards there...
Now I do like the idea of making 20pins of the 40 C3 compatible - but PLEASE leave GND and 3v3 where they are! (they can add more Vcc/GND pins)
Proteus and Propteus are prototyping boards on which you can solder what you want or need. But I think the QuickStart has to support ready to use modules with functions like WiFi, Bluetooth, USB host, XBee, Motor/Stepper controllers, Relais modules ....
What I want to see from Parallax is a common used concept for add-on modules that finds consideration on any new designed Board and add-on module, so that all fits well together. So if you buy for example a WiFi module you can put it on a Quickstart board or on a C3 without any adapter (the Propeller pins could be different, adjusting theme in software is no problem, but power pins are important).
I tought the C3 expansion header was declared by Parallax as such a standard. But the first new board after the C3 already knows nothing about that standard. And I would not be surprised if the WiFi module also does not follow any existing standard pin out.
Sometime I think at Parallax every Designer of a PCB just choose randomly a connector and routes the wires to the next available free pin.
Here some examples:
GamePad Adapter: GND, +5V, DATA2, DATA1, LATCH, CLK
ProtoBoard row : 3V3, GND, P0, P1, P2, P3, P4, P5, P6, P7
Micro SD card : GND, 3V3, CD, DAT, CS, DI, SCLK, DO, DAT1
MotorMind : VCC, GND, TM, FM, Brk, Motor-, +
Easy BlueTooth : GND, Rx, Tx, -, -, -, -, -, -, Vdd
Current QuickStart:
P1, P3, P5, P7, P9 ..., 3V3
P0, P2, P4, P6, P8 ..., GND (how will you fit any of the above boards?)
I'm pretty sure the QuickStart board will find a big market penetration, therefore it's desirable that this board follows such a Parallax Module standard. Even more because it lacks all the TV, VGA, PS/2 connectors of other boards.
Such a standard should have the ability to put several boards in parallel onto a header (or multiple headers). If you have a WiFi module plugged in, it should be possible to also add a motor controller board or something similar. The Arduino supports that with its stackable shield concept, but that is not ideal. Often you need more than one module on top, so a parallel arrangement would be better.
I like that the QuickStart board has unpopulated pins for a second parallel connector, this is a big step in the right direction
Proteus and Propteus are prototyping boards on which you can solder what you want or need. But I think the QuickStart has to support ready to use modules with functions like WiFi, Bluetooth, USB host, XBee, Motor/Stepper controllers, Relais modules ....
What I want to see from Parallax is a common used concept for add-on modules that finds consideration on any new designed Board and add-on module, so that all fits well together. So if you buy for example a WiFi module you can put it on a Quickstart board or on a C3 without any adapter (the Propeller pins could be different, adjusting theme in software is no problem, but power pins are important).
I tought the C3 expansion header was declared by Parallax as such a standard. But the first new board after the C3 already knows nothing about that standard. And I would not be surprised if the WiFi module also does not follow any existing standard pin out.
Sometime I think at Parallax every Designer of a PCB just choose randomly a connector and routes the wires to the next available free pin.
Here some examples:
GamePad Adapter: GND, +5V, DATA2, DATA1, LATCH, CLK
ProtoBoard row : 3V3, GND, P0, P1, P2, P3, P4, P5, P6, P7
Micro SD card : GND, 3V3, CD, DAT, CS, DI, SCLK, DO, DAT1
MotorMind : VCC, GND, TM, FM, Brk, Motor-, +
Easy BlueTooth : GND, Rx, Tx, -, -, -, -, -, -, Vdd
Current QuickStart:
P1, P3, P5, P7, P9 ..., 3V3
P0, P2, P4, P6, P8 ..., GND (how will you fit any of the above boards?)
I'm pretty sure the QuickStart board will find a big market penetration, therefore it's desirable that this board follows such a Parallax Module standard. Even more because it lacks all the TV, VGA, PS/2 connectors of other boards.
Such a standard should have the ability to put several boards in parallel onto a header (or multiple headers). If you have a WiFi module plugged in, it should be possible to also add a motor controller board or something similar. The Arduino supports that with its stackable shield concept, but that is not ideal. Often you need more than one module on top, so a parallel arrangement would be better.
I like that the QuickStart board has unpopulated pins for a second parallel connector, this is a big step in the right direction
Andy
p.s.
I adopted the 10-pin Protoboard header years ago, as I figured that Parallax would sell far more Protoboards (PropPlug&USB versions) than all of their other boards. I have made and will continue to make a major commitment to that standard, as everyone will see at UPEW.
The 10 pin protoboard header configuration works VERY well, as an eight pin group is a natural fit for VGA as well as many byte-wide peripherals.
Is there documentation anywhere indicating whether the USB connector is a standard, mini or micro USB type? Would be nice to be prepared by having the correct cable! Thank you.
The QuickStart has pads for a sigma-delta ADC and 2 holes to connect the Sensor / Mic or what you want.
The 10pin standard is what I use also on most of my modules. To this standard fit also many third party modules not intendet for the Propeller, like the old (1 row) Digilent modules and for example the red Nokia graphic LCD from Sparkfun.
The pin-out proposal I made some posts before includes also this 10pin standard together with the C3.
One omission on QuickStart puzzles me... why is there not a Sigma-Delta ADC on board?
I do like the touch sensors on QuickStart.
I agree with you re/ WiFi, Bluetooth etc module support.
p.s.
I adopted the 10-pin Protoboard header years ago, as I figured that Parallax would sell far more Protoboards (PropPlug&USB versions) than all of their other boards. I have made and will continue to make a major commitment to that standard, as everyone will see at UPEW.
The 10 pin protoboard header configuration works VERY well, as an eight pin group is a natural fit for VGA as well as many byte-wide peripherals.
Is there documentation anywhere indicating whether the USB connector is a standard, mini or micro USB type? Would be nice to be prepared by having the correct cable! Thank you.
The DipTrace and Altium files will be available for anybody. Product developers can get their samples quickly, without waiting for a purchasing manager to order it.
Including P8X32A-Q44/M44 for Altium component Library?
To answer some of your questions, I have attached a preliminary copy of the design files.
Will the CAD design source files be posted soon ?
We have a target, but the PCB cannot exceed 1.6" x 2.2", and I cannot see the present Built PCB quite sub-sizing as we need.
Two saw cuts might have worked, if the 40 pin header did not overhang the crystal.
So, we could import the Design, and then shift the 40 pin/regulator, etc, and maybe buy a board as the fastest way to get a set of parts.
The DipTrace and Altium files will be available for anybody. Product developers can get their samples quickly, without waiting for a purchasing manager to order it.
Including P8X32A-Q44/M44 for Altium component Library?
What a great tool to get people introduced to the prop. It should be easy to couple this with some tutorials and some add on sensors/devices. That really should make it easy to hook other beginners on the prop. At the same time it will allow them to grow into the prop's full capabilities (one day I'll get there too).
Well done.
I also like the $20 price as something to use for some of the more simple projects I may want to toy with. An easy way to be up and running and working on a project.
Not to open up the debate again but IMO this takes a lot of the good things about the Arduino shields / STAMP kits and brings it to the prop. A simple self contained unit that gets people up and running.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this does much that the PropStick does but at 1/4 the price? I'll certainly take a few.
This is a nice looking board. I could see buying one.
I don't so much mind the variety of connectors on Parallax products, as Andy commented on - I figure they're part of the learning/growing process. It would be great to see the designs mature to use a common connector, but not at the cost of stifling creativity and growth.
What I would like to see is when Parallax sells a device needing a connector to also sell mating connectors. Otherwise it's like selling a car without tires; the board is useless until we spend time scrambling around looking through our parts bins, then Digikey and Mouser catalogs, trying to match up the right part.
I remember one Parallax sensor, IR or line scan or something that was fitted with a tiny 4-pin connector that I never was able to find a mate to, and had to solder leads to the board to bypass the connector. I hated to be so sloppy but had no choice.
Personally, I like the 9 and 25 pin subminiature "D" connectors; 9 pin for one or two wire sensors with power and ground, and 25 pin for IO devices that need 8 data lines plus a few control lines, plus power and ground. But for some reason they don't seem very popular. Too expensive?
I totally agree with Andy's suggestion that a parallel-type of backplane would be an excellent enhancement to this board.
I imagine a backplane board that plugs into this 40 pin connector and presents an array of sockets, some serial and some parallel, so multiple devices could be connected to the propeller in parallel fashion. (Stacking device boards just seems awkward to me.)
Publison, Thanks for that 'guess'. I couldn't tell as I hadn't used any before.
Turns out I mis-ordered a cable recently but didn't return it. Wanted a micro USB but must of misread 'mini' for 'micro' at the time of ordering from Wal-Mart. Turns out exactly what's needed then.
Hurry up '1 June' and start shipping the QuickStarts.
Anyone having ordering issues? I ordered 3 boards online Monday evening and upon entering the shipping data and CC# the website returned with an error. I resubmitted the information and it seemed to go through giving me an order # but I have yet to receive a confirmation e-mail.
Looking at MyAccount, I do not see any pending orders (even though I have an order #)
My e-mail to Sales @ Parallax has gone unanswered.
This is a question for Parallax to answer probably.
Having ordered several QuickStart boards, I have some questions. Is there any document describing the use of the features of this board? My questions below expand on this; referenced to the schematic pages:
Page 1:
J3 Why the zone right beside J1?
J4..7 Why four power/ground 'header' (4 1x2 or 1 2x4) zones?
D11 (board doesn't have silk sreen legends for many parts) Where is the power LED located (upper left)?
Page 2:
S2..9 What are the 'unpopulated items (just the 'touchpads')?
U5 Is this used to miimize the current load on the Prop I/Os?
J8 Is this the two thru holes above te delta sigma symbols? And why aren't the 4 unpopulated parts (R16,17, C16,17) included?
Page 3:
J2 Is this a standard, mini or micro USB connector?
D9..10 What do these LEDs indicate?
U4 Is this IC just to protect U3 from loading?
Q2, D12 What voltage drop these incur? I'd guess the '5v' is close to 4v.
And, is this just a 2-layer board with no power/ground layers inside?
Much in a designer's mind can be 'hidden' on a pcb, thus my questions.
Anyone having ordering issues? I ordered 3 boards online Monday evening and upon entering the shipping data and CC# the website returned with an error. I resubmitted the information and it seemed to go through giving me an order # but I have yet to receive a confirmation e-mail.
Looking at MyAccount, I do not see any pending orders (even though I have an order #)
My e-mail to Sales @ Parallax has gone unanswered.
This is a question for Parallax to answer probably.
Having ordered several QuickStart boards, I have some questions. Is there any document describing the use of the features of this board? My questions below expand on this; referenced to the schematic pages:
Page 1:
J3 Why the zone right beside J1?
J4..7 Why four power/ground 'header' (4 1x2 or 1 2x4) zones?
D11 (board doesn't have silk sreen legends for many parts) Where is the power LED located (upper left)?
Page 2:
S2..9 What are the 'unpopulated items (just the 'touchpads')?
U5 Is this used to miimize the current load on the Prop I/Os?
J8 Is this the two thru holes above te delta sigma symbols? And why aren't the 4 unpopulated parts (R16,17, C16,17) included?
Page 3:
J2 Is this a standard, mini or micro USB connector?
D9..10 What do these LEDs indicate?
U4 Is this IC just to protect U3 from loading?
Q2, D12 What voltage drop these incur? I'd guess the '5v' is close to 4v.
And, is this just a 2-layer board with no power/ground layers inside?
Much in a designer's mind can be 'hidden' on a pcb, thus my questions.
Comments
Cole is correct. Once an on-line order has been made the database keeps track of other items purchased, regardless of their actual availability in our inventory.
That said, I'm a bit concerned about the pin-out of the 40 Pin connector. It seems to be incompatible to any existing standard, and consecutive pin numbers are zig-zag left and right placed on the connector.
If you really change the layout, why not make it compatible to other Parallax Propeller boards?
Here is a proposal for a pin-out which is mostly compatible to the C3 and also to a 10pin Expansion connector. This 10pin expansion can be found 4 times around the Propeller on the ProtoBoard and therefore many have adapted this layout.
I had to omit the RTS and CTS and replaced theme with another set of 3.3V and GND. This has the advantage that you can split the 40pin connector to 2x20 pins and have power connections on both sides.
I know that this is a big change to an already finished board layout, but I thought I present the idea anyway.
Andy
If they move 5V to where I have it on my 40 pin connectors, then it would compatible with even more of my boards - which means more off-the-shelf third party products that would be immediately available for QuickStart.
Assuming that Parallax has QuickStart boards at UPEW I will be able to show them with my prototyping boards there...
Now I do like the idea of making 20pins of the 40 C3 compatible - but PLEASE leave GND and 3v3 where they are! (they can add more Vcc/GND pins)
No one gave me dirty looks when I had my external, USB hard drive hooked up.
All it needs is a little box.
OBC
Proteus and Propteus are prototyping boards on which you can solder what you want or need. But I think the QuickStart has to support ready to use modules with functions like WiFi, Bluetooth, USB host, XBee, Motor/Stepper controllers, Relais modules ....
What I want to see from Parallax is a common used concept for add-on modules that finds consideration on any new designed Board and add-on module, so that all fits well together. So if you buy for example a WiFi module you can put it on a Quickstart board or on a C3 without any adapter (the Propeller pins could be different, adjusting theme in software is no problem, but power pins are important).
I tought the C3 expansion header was declared by Parallax as such a standard. But the first new board after the C3 already knows nothing about that standard. And I would not be surprised if the WiFi module also does not follow any existing standard pin out.
Sometime I think at Parallax every Designer of a PCB just choose randomly a connector and routes the wires to the next available free pin.
Here some examples:
GamePad Adapter: GND, +5V, DATA2, DATA1, LATCH, CLK
ProtoBoard row : 3V3, GND, P0, P1, P2, P3, P4, P5, P6, P7
Micro SD card : GND, 3V3, CD, DAT, CS, DI, SCLK, DO, DAT1
MotorMind : VCC, GND, TM, FM, Brk, Motor-, +
Easy BlueTooth : GND, Rx, Tx, -, -, -, -, -, -, Vdd
Current QuickStart:
P1, P3, P5, P7, P9 ..., 3V3
P0, P2, P4, P6, P8 ..., GND (how will you fit any of the above boards?)
I'm pretty sure the QuickStart board will find a big market penetration, therefore it's desirable that this board follows such a Parallax Module standard. Even more because it lacks all the TV, VGA, PS/2 connectors of other boards.
Such a standard should have the ability to put several boards in parallel onto a header (or multiple headers). If you have a WiFi module plugged in, it should be possible to also add a motor controller board or something similar. The Arduino supports that with its stackable shield concept, but that is not ideal. Often you need more than one module on top, so a parallel arrangement would be better.
I like that the QuickStart board has unpopulated pins for a second parallel connector, this is a big step in the right direction
Andy
John Abshier
I do like the touch sensors on QuickStart.
I agree with you re/ WiFi, Bluetooth etc module support.
p.s.
I adopted the 10-pin Protoboard header years ago, as I figured that Parallax would sell far more Protoboards (PropPlug&USB versions) than all of their other boards. I have made and will continue to make a major commitment to that standard, as everyone will see at UPEW.
The 10 pin protoboard header configuration works VERY well, as an eight pin group is a natural fit for VGA as well as many byte-wide peripherals.
The QuickStart has pads for a sigma-delta ADC and 2 holes to connect the Sensor / Mic or what you want.
The 10pin standard is what I use also on most of my modules. To this standard fit also many third party modules not intendet for the Propeller, like the old (1 row) Digilent modules and for example the red Nokia graphic LCD from Sparkfun.
The pin-out proposal I made some posts before includes also this 10pin standard together with the C3.
Andy
They did put in a couple of pads for A/D:
They also include:
"Pads for sigma-delta A/D circuitry (two resistors and two capacitors, both 0603) for using the Sigma-Delta A/D AppNote"
Bill needs new glasses...
10 pin modules.... THE only true path for your electrons!
Including P8X32A-Q44/M44 for Altium component Library?
Will the CAD design source files be posted soon ?
We have a target, but the PCB cannot exceed 1.6" x 2.2", and I cannot see the present Built PCB quite sub-sizing as we need.
Two saw cuts might have worked, if the 40 pin header did not overhang the crystal.
So, we could import the Design, and then shift the 40 pin/regulator, etc, and maybe buy a board as the fastest way to get a set of parts.
What a great tool to get people introduced to the prop. It should be easy to couple this with some tutorials and some add on sensors/devices. That really should make it easy to hook other beginners on the prop. At the same time it will allow them to grow into the prop's full capabilities (one day I'll get there too).
Well done.
I also like the $20 price as something to use for some of the more simple projects I may want to toy with. An easy way to be up and running and working on a project.
Not to open up the debate again but IMO this takes a lot of the good things about the Arduino shields / STAMP kits and brings it to the prop. A simple self contained unit that gets people up and running.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this does much that the PropStick does but at 1/4 the price? I'll certainly take a few.
I don't so much mind the variety of connectors on Parallax products, as Andy commented on - I figure they're part of the learning/growing process. It would be great to see the designs mature to use a common connector, but not at the cost of stifling creativity and growth.
What I would like to see is when Parallax sells a device needing a connector to also sell mating connectors. Otherwise it's like selling a car without tires; the board is useless until we spend time scrambling around looking through our parts bins, then Digikey and Mouser catalogs, trying to match up the right part.
I remember one Parallax sensor, IR or line scan or something that was fitted with a tiny 4-pin connector that I never was able to find a mate to, and had to solder leads to the board to bypass the connector. I hated to be so sloppy but had no choice.
Personally, I like the 9 and 25 pin subminiature "D" connectors; 9 pin for one or two wire sensors with power and ground, and 25 pin for IO devices that need 8 data lines plus a few control lines, plus power and ground. But for some reason they don't seem very popular. Too expensive?
I totally agree with Andy's suggestion that a parallel-type of backplane would be an excellent enhancement to this board.
I imagine a backplane board that plugs into this 40 pin connector and presents an array of sockets, some serial and some parallel, so multiple devices could be connected to the propeller in parallel fashion. (Stacking device boards just seems awkward to me.)
Turns out I mis-ordered a cable recently but didn't return it. Wanted a micro USB but must of misread 'mini' for 'micro' at the time of ordering from Wal-Mart. Turns out exactly what's needed then.
Hurry up '1 June' and start shipping the QuickStarts.
Looking at MyAccount, I do not see any pending orders (even though I have an order #)
My e-mail to Sales @ Parallax has gone unanswered.
Maybe if this gets consistently resolved well, I will change my mind.
Having ordered several QuickStart boards, I have some questions. Is there any document describing the use of the features of this board? My questions below expand on this; referenced to the schematic pages:
Page 1:
J3 Why the zone right beside J1?
J4..7 Why four power/ground 'header' (4 1x2 or 1 2x4) zones?
D11 (board doesn't have silk sreen legends for many parts) Where is the power LED located (upper left)?
Page 2:
S2..9 What are the 'unpopulated items (just the 'touchpads')?
U5 Is this used to miimize the current load on the Prop I/Os?
J8 Is this the two thru holes above te delta sigma symbols? And why aren't the 4 unpopulated parts (R16,17, C16,17) included?
Page 3:
J2 Is this a standard, mini or micro USB connector?
D9..10 What do these LEDs indicate?
U4 Is this IC just to protect U3 from loading?
Q2, D12 What voltage drop these incur? I'd guess the '5v' is close to 4v.
And, is this just a 2-layer board with no power/ground layers inside?
Much in a designer's mind can be 'hidden' on a pcb, thus my questions.
As I see it, it is an evaluation board. You seem to be asking question aimed at it being a board that could be put into production.
I'm working behind the scenes to see that this happens. Very easy to build these on our Pick-n-Place machine.
Thank you for the order, Jim! I'm certain you'll be very happy with the delivery.
Ken Gracey