Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
Project for a Paramedic. Wireless Video. WiFi. Ar.Drone examples — Parallax Forums

Project for a Paramedic. Wireless Video. WiFi. Ar.Drone examples

TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
edited 2011-08-14 09:43 in General Discussion
Hello All!

It's been a while since I posted last and couldn't get my old username and password to work so I made a new account.

I am a paramedic and want to further and extend my knowledge in electrical engineering in an informal way so as to make advances in the equipment we use in the field. I have some great ideas for equipment prototypes and want to put them to use. I don't really want to go back to school for electrical engineering so I am hoping the users here can point me in the right direction.

I digress

I am designing my own version of the GlideScope with a few minor changes in ergonomics and the addition of wireless video. I would like my circuitry designs to mimic that of the Ar.Drone. It has two on board cameras and creates it's own wifi network to transmit the video to an iphone via an objective-c application. I would like to have a wireless version of the Glidescope that will also record and store the video of successful larygoscopy.

My questions are:

1.) Where do i start on finding out how to put a circuit like this together?
2.) Will Parallax's products be beneficial to me?
3.) I am having trouble locating any info on embedded cameras and corresponding circuitry through google. What keywords and search phrases should I should to ascertain this info.
4.) I am basically having trouble on where to start. I have the brains just no knowledge, any help to point me in the right direction would be great to get started.

The impetus for this project was an unsuccessful intubation on a small child due to an anaphylactic reaction. Having an instrument such as this would improve our chances of saving lives like these 10 fold. The current instruments on the market are too expensive to be realized by rural EMS where they are needed the most and I would like to design and make available such equipment. Please do not flame me I am only looking for direction. I understand I am ignorant at this point. Any help would be amazing. Thank you.
«1

Comments

  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2011-04-30 10:54
    The following company has an electrical engineer on staff, they are looking for work, and can help you make a prototype. They are a small company and have reasonable prices. And they would be flexible as to you doing some of the work and their helping. You do all the work and they build it. They do all the work. [Whatever!]

    They also can program microcontrollers for you if needed.

    http://www.tech-edge.com
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2011-04-30 11:07
    P.S. If you are going into the medical equipment business, my doctor recently switched to using computers in each examining room...

    They take my temperature, pulse, and blood pressure with an electronic [whatever it is called on a cart], then they manually enter those readings into my page on the computer in the examination room.

    It seems to me that BP machine could wirelessly transmit my readings to the computer!

    So I suppose there is a lot of medical equipment out there just waiting to be integrated into the computers they now use.

    I know some companies will buy existing products, then add on a bit of electronics to enhance the product, then market the new better product under their own name. And they might get the manufacturer of the initial product to just send them product in an un-assembled state and for a bulk price.

    Anyway that is an option. Modify an existing product along with an agreement with the manufacturer.
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-04-30 11:08
    bill190 wrote: »
    The following company has an electrical engineer on staff, they are looking for work, and can help you make a prototype. They are a small company and have reasonable prices. And they would be flexible as to you doing some of the work and their helping. You do all the work and they build it. They do all the work. [Whatever!]

    They also can program microcontrollers for you if needed.

    http://www.tech-edge.com


    Sent them an email. Thanks for your response. However, I would still appreciate any direction anyone has for me on this. As you can imagine, I am pretty independent and would to do most of it on my own. Thanks again!
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-04-30 11:11
    You're exactly right bill190. That's the purpose of having the wireless laryngoscope on a WiFi network. It would make our reports much easier and we cold focus more on patient care having all info transmitted on a local wireless network between machine and our patient care report computer. I am also looking into designing a software package for the ipad that will integrate this all together. Taking baby steps right now though. Would like to see this laryngoscope come to fruition because if nothing else, at least that particular piece of equipment will help save many lives.
  • lanternfishlanternfish Posts: 366
    edited 2011-04-30 15:08
    Hi TheFritch

    Just to get you started on the Google search try wifi inspection camera or wireless inspection camera.
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-01 12:50
    128 replies to some meaningless thread about being old and being a geek and only two people to help advance electronics and medicine in the field for our children.

    Pathetic at best.
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2011-05-01 14:20
    Actually mixing medical and electronics is highly specialized. Most medical types or emergency medical types I've had contact with are not very interested in electronics. And many electronics types know very little about the medical field.

    Many moons ago I worked at a manufacturer which made an electronic medical machine. We had a medical doctor who came up with the idea. Then an electrical engineer who designed it. Then the assembly workers and electronics technicians.

    I was an electronics technician and only had contact with the electrical engineer. I never met or talked to the medical doctor. He was not interested in the internal workings of the gizmo. And us electronics types were not terribly interested in the medical stuff other than the general theory of operation.

    With that said, there are some electronics types who do work on medical equipment. The Microchip Microcontroller forum has people there who work on all sorts of different highly specialized gizmos and program the microcontrollers for that. You might search that forum ( www.microchip.com/forums ) with an advanced google.com search to search only that web site and search for the word medical. Maybe you can find one of their forums where a medical electronics type hangs out. Here is that search using the word medical...
    http://www.google.com/search?q=medical+site%3Awww.microchip.com%2Fforums&hl=en&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=off&tbs=

    Then another trick is to use the word "forum" along with the subject you want to discuss. Here is a google search for medical electronics forum...
    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&source=hp&q=medical+electronics+forum&aq=0v&aqi=g-v1g-m1&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=9e109416ad216412

    Of course substitute your own general medical terms or general electronic terms.
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-04 06:39
    vaclav_sal wrote: »
    Consider yourself lucky - you have not got any "read What is a microprocessor " advice yet.
    I have a similar ( wireless video ) project , but is is on back burner due to power ( battery) requirement.
    Just for kiks there was / is a thead on this site about "key ring" size camera few months back.
    I;ll check it out for you, give me few days.
    Before you pick your processor be aware that some of the microprocessors have "commercial" medical devices restrictions / disclaimers attached to them.

    Vaclav

    Thanks for at least trying. All I really need to know is how to interface a camera or where to even find info on how to do that. I have a propeller development kit from parallax and I know how to program. I am not a fool. I am just ignorant on the camera aspect. There are childrens toys for ~$50 that transmit video from a set of glasses to a wristwatch wirelessly, it can't be that difficult. I already have the design of my equipment and the idea. I just need to know how to add a camera and how to transmit wirelessly so any help doing that or even if someone can point me to a book or series of books would be more than beneficial.

    And thank you bill190 for continuing to help. I'm sure my attitude seems a little demise at this point, but I find it sad how little we really care about the things that truly matter. Thanks again!
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-05-04 09:32
    TheFritch,
    So nobody wants to fight and die on your hill. So what? Are you Jesus Christ or something?
    Maybe nobody cares... or maybe it's your attitude.

    I'm going to the library and see if they have a book on intubation, then, "Voila!", I'm an emt; any idiot can do that, too, right?
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2011-05-04 10:04
    TheFritch wrote: »
    128 replies to some meaningless thread about being old and being a geek and only two people to help advance electronics and medicine in the field for our children.

    Pathetic at best.

    That's a little bit harsh. I have found the members on this forum will go to great lengths to share their expertise, and you had replies from one person within 35 minutes of your posting and another in less than 6 hours.

    Another reason for lack of response may very well be that there are not a large number of members with the required expertise. In my case I have been busy and did not see this post until now. It may be that it disappeared from the first page fairly quickly.

    I do have some background in medical instrumentation and would be happy to help provided the quoted post is not an indication of how that help will be received. I also feel you owe the forum members an apology.
  • ctwardellctwardell Posts: 1,716
    edited 2011-05-04 12:10
    vaclav_sal wrote: »
    I think you have nailed it - if it does not shoot, blips LED's or walk there is a little interest in it here. I have to keep reminding myself who sponsors this site.
    Enough said.

    Vaclav, I'll give TheFritch as pass because he is new here and has a fire in the belly to get something done that it sounds like would be very beneficial. However I think you've been around long enough to know better and I consider your comment to be over the top at best.

    TheFritch, have some patience, you'll find that in a post like you mentioned about geeks that it gets a lot of traffic because most of us have a story or two that fits the topic. In your case you're asking questions regarding a fairly narrow topic and one that has life and death consequences and will face some pretty major legal and liability issues. So be assured it isn't due to lack of interest, it's just that most of us will not post noise on a serious subject where we can't add value to the conversation.

    It sounds like kwinn and vaclav may be able to help.

    I wouldn't have posted on the topic, because I don't have any expertise in the medical area, or video for that matter, I just don't want to see you get discouraged and give up on getting help from this forum.

    C.W.
  • bill190bill190 Posts: 769
    edited 2011-05-05 06:31
    I did some poking around with that drone you mentioned above...

    Seems this is made by Parrot. And in addition to selling the finished products, they sell modules on their "OEM" site...
    (Click on Solutions)
    http://www.parrotoem.com/en

    This is interesting...
    http://www.parrotoem.com/en/oemsolutions/connectivitysolutions

    (Products site)...
    http://www.parrot.com/usa/

    The following page provides a few clues as to where you might find additional info...
    http://www.parrot.com/usa/aboutparrot/corporateoverview

    Like...
    Technological collaborations
    Chip manufacturers, founders and components suppliers : STMicroelectronics, ATMEL, Infineon Technologies
    Manufacturers: Thal
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2011-05-05 08:17
    TheFritch wrote: »
    128 replies to some meaningless thread about being old and being a geek and only two people to help advance electronics and medicine in the field for our children.

    Pathetic at best.

    Your questions are too vague, and indicate that you don't know much about the field. You really need to collaborate with someone who knows something about medical electronics, and come up with a formal specification for the medical part of the system. You can then investigate the drone and Wi-Fi aspects with another specialist, and prepare a specification for that. Medical systems have special requirements and regulations, you can't just jump in, produce a prototype, and try it out on someone.
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-05 12:35
    Leon wrote: »
    Your questions are too vague, and indicate that you don't know much about the field. You really need to collaborate with someone who knows something about medical electronics, and come up with a formal specification for the medical part of the system. You can then investigate the drone and Wi-Fi aspects with another specialist, and prepare a specification for that. Medical systems have special requirements and regulations, you can't just jump in, produce a prototype, and try it out on someone.

    Actually I can. With the help of a local medical director as soon as I have a working prototype it can be tested in the field locally. I really don't need help with getting an "in" or a specialist in the field. I just need help putting a camera in a circuit and then sending that signal to a monitor wirelessly. That's all I need to do. Thanks for your help, however.
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-05 12:36
    bill190 wrote: »
    I did some poking around with that drone you mentioned above...

    Thanks again for your help!
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-05 12:38
    ctwardell wrote: »
    Vaclav, I'll give TheFritch as pass because he is new here and has a fire in the belly to get something done that it sounds like would be very beneficial. However I think you've been around long enough to know better and I consider your comment to be over the top at best.C.W.

    Thanks
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-05 12:44
    PJ Allen wrote: »
    TheFritch,
    So nobody wants to fight and die on your hill. So what? Are you Jesus Christ or something?
    Maybe nobody cares... or maybe it's your attitude.

    I'm going to the library and see if they have a book on intubation, then, "Voila!", I'm an emt; any idiot can do that, too, right?

    I would like it if you wouldn't post on my thread anymore. I can't stop you but I would appreciate if you would remove yourself from the conversation. I think that would be best for all. Your haste to anger, malice, and belittlement is a bad combination in any community. Thank you.
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-05 12:53
    kwinn wrote: »
    That's a little bit harsh. I have found the members on this forum will go to great lengths to share their expertise, and you had replies from one person within 35 minutes of your posting and another in less than 6 hours.

    Another reason for lack of response may very well be that there are not a large number of members with the required expertise. In my case I have been busy and did not see this post until now. It may be that it disappeared from the first page fairly quickly.

    I do have some background in medical instrumentation and would be happy to help provided the quoted post is not an indication of how that help will be received. I also feel you owe the forum members an apology.

    I will take all of the help I can get. Your "above quoted post" is not how help will be received. I suppose I was to hasty in my response. I do apologize to the forum members, however I might add that I am reluctant toward PJ Allen.

    I keep seeing responses that involve the need for "medical instrumentation" specialty, legal issues, etc etc. While this may all prove to be extremely beneficial, I really need help with the camera and wireless aspects of this project. I have two physicians on board, will be obtaining a patent shortly, and have already designed the ergonomics of the laryngoscope. My questions are more, do I use CCD or CMOS? Will a micro-controller work or do I need a microprocessor such as an ARM9 or equivalent? Which is the best company to utilize for PCB manufacture? Etc. Thanks again everyone!

    I have found in the past it is the truth that hurts us worst.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-05-05 13:24
    TheFritch,
    You demonstrated your haste and malice from the get-go; you're the pot calling the kettle black, you point to some speck you think that you see in my eye and are blind to your own, mate.
    Save your high dudgeon for the Hypocrites' Forum.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2011-05-05 15:00
    PJ Allen, why don't you lighten up a little.

    TheFritch may have been a little hasty and harsh with his posting, but he has had the courage to admit his mistake and the courtesy to apologize. You on the other hand have been an ongoing obnoxious pain with your rude and generally uncalled for postings. The fact that most folks on the forum have ignored them speaks volumes about the level of maturity and professionalism here.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2011-05-05 15:32
    kwinn,

    I'm as light as a feather, a harmless ball of fluff.
    Who died and made you God?

    You are nobody, absolutely nobody, to lecture me or anybody
    else on matters of diplomacy, professionalism, maturity or courtesy.
    You're the model of presumption and pretentiousness.

    The sooner you stop taking my name in vain the sooner you can
    get on with your fool's errand.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2011-05-05 15:37
    TheFritch wrote: »
    I really need help with the camera and wireless aspects of this project. I have two physicians on board, will be obtaining a patent shortly, and have already designed the ergonomics of the laryngoscope.
    I do have some experience with CMOS and CCD imaging chips as well as producing and storing the images, however that was several years ago and there have been a lot of changes in the available chips since then. Do you have any idea of the resolution, color depth, and frame rate you need? The higher these numbers are the more power, bandwidth, and storage space are required.
    My questions are more, do I use CCD or CMOS? Will a micro-controller work or do I need a microprocessor such as an ARM9 or equivalent?
    Both are possible choices. A CCD is generally used for higher resolution and more demanding applications. CMOS chips tend to be simpler to use due to having more functions integrated on chip and are probably a better choice.

    The choice of a micro-controller or microprocessor would depend on the resolution/color depth/frame rate requirement.
    Which is the best company to utilize for PCB manufacture? Etc.
    This would depend to some extent on the type and complexity of the board. There are many choices available.
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-05 16:04
    Do you have any idea of the resolution, color depth, and frame rate you need?

    Ideally I would like to transmit to an iphone. I can write a simple Objective-C application to retrieve and display the data stream from a wifi network. To display on the iPhone 3GS: 480x320 163ppi To display on the iPhone 4: 960x640 326ppi. 30-60 fps should do it. The goal of this project is to be able to visualize the vocal cords no matter what the patients anatomy is. As long as the resolution and frame rate are fast enough for us to see the cords and visualize our tube pass through them then we have succeeded. Furthermore, the camera will need to be able to withstand a bright LED located close to the camera as the hypopharynx will need to be illuminated during laryngoscopy. I am not certain what my needs for color depth are at this time.

    Having said all of that, ANY display will do at this time. I just want a working prototype to show that the concept works.
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-05 16:42
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOz3WazFkqQ

    Here's a perfect example of what I want to do! As a matter of fact this would be better than the laryngoscopy as this is more of a bronchoscopy procedure.

    So they big question is.... How'd they do that?!?!?!

    Thats what I want to know because I can make my own adjustments and changes so that i can market an improved version and make it affordable for rural EMS for all the kiddos and people from lower-income communities. They deserve the same standard of care and the same chance at life.

    A project like this will also advance my knowledge enough that I might be able to apply these principles and practices to others aspects of medicine in the field! There are a ton of charities and organizations that could benefit from these advances as well such as Operation Smile and Doctors without Borders.

    Thanks all!
  • tonyp12tonyp12 Posts: 1,951
    edited 2011-05-05 17:27
    Wow that is one small video camera.
    That is micro electronics, no DIP40 ;)
    That is maybe that you don't get that much help from here,
    as it's very hard to work with 0.4mm dot pitch IC.

    hlcn02jul2009.gif
  • FranklinFranklin Posts: 4,747
    edited 2011-05-05 20:17
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8_0NuGkioI might give you an idea for a camera.
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-05 21:09
    tonyp12 wrote: »
    Wow that is one small video camera.
    That is micro electronics, no DIP40 ;)
    That is maybe that you don't get that much help from here,
    as it's very hard to work with 0.4mm dot pitch IC.

    hlcn02jul2009.gif

    I completely understand that. I could still design the circuit on a breadboard then miniaturize it later for production. Right now I just need to know how the electronics work not necessarily how to make them small. Just some information on how to get going with cameras and sending the video wirelessly to start.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2011-05-05 22:35
    Unfortunately, you're asking for very specialized information that you'd normally hire an experienced engineer to provide. A simple web search would come up with a variety of wireless video cameras that would work with either an unmodified analog flat screen TV receiver or a custom wireless monitor. These are sold for use in R/C vehicles mostly and many operate in the 2.4GHz band sending analog video. The cameras are small, but nowhere near small enough for what you want. You can find smaller cameras that produce video that could be transmitted by the same sort of transmitter as the larger units. For sending video over WiFi you really need a digital image to begin with. You'd want to compress it using some standard algorithm. None of Parallax's current controllers can handle that sort of work. You might want to use a Linux-based processor like the Gumstix series since you would be able to use open source video software to manage the camera and stream the video over their built-in WiFi interfaces. SparkFun carries a couple of cameras that you might be able to use, if not, they at least show you what's generally available (here).
  • TheFritchTheFritch Posts: 15
    edited 2011-05-06 09:08
    Thanks Mike! Big Help.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2011-05-06 12:46
    @TheFritch

    There are many cmos camera chips in the resolution and frame rate range you listed. If the main goal is to be able to see the vocal cords and visualize the tube being passed through them then a relatively low resolution (320x240 to 640x480) image with an 8 to 12 bit color depth should be adequate.

    There are a variety of image sensors available from Micron Technologies in 1/6, 1/4, and 1/3 inch die sizes. For a prototype/proof of concept unit you may want to look at what is commercially available. Google “pinhole video cameras” and look at several of these offerings. There are cameras available with recording and display options. If you can use off the shelf hardware for this the savings in engineering costs will be substantial.
Sign In or Register to comment.