Are you opposed to a little experiment with one of your prototypes at UPEW...
Also, have you done any testing using any of the solar products that Parallax sells?
OBC
Of course not - I'd hoped somebody might ask:-)
Yes, the 30 watt, 6 volt solar panel is directly compatible with the Lion board. Our other cells have substantially less current, but they do work if you put enough of them in parallax, errr...parallel.
@ Whit - thanks (I think). But realistically, we all know that Ken is the Frenzy Whipping Master :-)
@ sam_x3 - I can't wait either.
Prop BOE began prototype production today! And then we've got a WiFi prototype thingy, and then another batch of Spinnerets, and then (something else I can't remember at this moment), and then the Lion 3x4, and then the Lion - Boe-Bot.
It is truly amazing (to me anyway) about the number of new products that we have in the channel right now. All of which I'm really excited about!
We have all the parts (necessary to build the Lions) in stock - we're just trying to >>>squeeze<<< it into the production schedule (beyond my control).
This is NOT a slam on our production team - they're actually Amazingly gifted at getting stuff "out the door" in relatively short order. However, I do think that the complexity of some of our products are...s t r e t c h i n g...our production capabilities sometimes.
That's one of the reasons why Ken is so adamant about getting the best production equipment that we can. The new KISS 102 is a good example of this, as is the Haas 4'x8' vacuum table router, and the Epilog Laser.
Prop BOE, Spinneret, WiFi, Lion 3x4, Lion BOE-bot version are only the tip-of-the-iceberg. I sense other RCS (Really Cool Stuff) on the near-horizon as well :-)
I'll get an update from our WPM (Wonderful Production Manager) Jennifer early this coming week about when is a realistic "in stock date". (I really hate to dangle the "carrot" for this long too!)
This Thread will be the first to know when the Boards will be ready for immediate shipment!
Production is building these today, using every machine in the shop!
Question for you - how much are you willing to pay for the Lithium Ion Charger? Come on, just tell us! Lauren has to figure this out pretty soon. I know you're thinking "if we say too much then we're going to pay more than we need to". Of course we've clearly identified our manufacturing costs and expected return on this product already, so this bit of market research won't cost you extra dollars.
For just the Li-Ion Battery Power Supply board with NO Batteries I do not want to see a price higher than $ 50.00 US any higher ....> I would have to think long and hard about buying one at a price a lot higher than that
For the batteries I would not want to see a price higher than 30% than the going web price rate
This is my 2 cent thought on this
Ken
Let have a pole to see if the price that you have in mind is to high or not....> just an idea
I have no idea what your parts and manufacturing costs are or what kind of profit margin you require, but I'm guessing the price will be considerably over $50. What would I pay? I don't know, if I needed one bad enough maybe I could hack one together for $20-30, but it would be ugly. If I needed one and would use it a lot I think I could go $50 or so.
I think it would be cool if the board by itself was in the $29.99 price bracket. I don't have any idea what the costs for the components are, but it doesn't appear to have very many parts, so I can't imagine it being super high.
The batteries appear to cost anywhere from $4 each to $12 each depending on the store and brand (doing a couple searches). So, perhaps a bundle of the board with 2 batteries would be able to be $39.99 or $44.99 (depending on the battery brand)?
Of course, I'm already planning to by 2-3 of these things regardless of the end result price... I'm probably not the best person to ask for a "good price".
I think it would be cool if the board by itself was in the $29.99 price bracket. I don't have any idea what the costs for the components are, but it doesn't appear to have very many parts, so I can't imagine it being super high.
The batteries appear to cost anywhere from $4 each to $12 each depending on the store and brand (doing a couple searches). So, perhaps a bundle of the board with 2 batteries would be able to be $39.99 or $44.99 (depending on the battery brand)?
Of course, I'm already planning to by 2-3 of these things regardless of the end result price... I'm probably not the best person to ask for a "good price".
Matt chose the highest quality batteries he could find, which are not the cheapest of course.
Our manufacturing costs (components, labor, excluding machine time) for the first run exceed $30/board. Design costs are another story, but this product is an investment in the future just like anything else we build.
I think we're right around the $50 mark, and even that price is too low based on our costs.
I was aiming a bit low because I was trying to consider people with a tighter budget. Also, this just shows that I have no idea what parts and boards actually cost to make.
I, personally, would be fine paying $69 or even more per board. The value is there for me. If you can get them in the $50 range, then all the better.
I don't know why I get so involved in prices, but it's an interesting study every time we release a product.
For example, if you ask anybody in manufacturing or accounting the price is only based on our costs and expected return on investment. Ask a marketing person and the price should be set on what price others are selling similar hardware. Ask a distributor and they'll tell you "really high, so we can get a bigger margin". Ask an image consultant and they'll tell you that low-cost products may not convey value, and that market is for low-quality. The engineer who designs the product always wants it to be priced low - maybe 20% over your costs!
The price setting exercise really involves a little bit of knowledge in all of these areas, and a few more.
Ken, it sounds like pricing is as much a psychological exercise as an accounting decision.
Matt, congratulations on getting the Li-ion pack successfully produced. That Pic-and-place machine is amazing. It just puts them on the board and doesn't solder them, right? What keeps the components from moving around before they get soldered?
When I watch that thing go, I can't help but sing The Ballad of John Henry in my head.
Yes, I did. They're the protected type and are made by a reputable company. However, the Charger Pak will work with almost any #18650 cell - cheap, expensive, protected, or not. You can get cells from us or anywhere else - the Charger Pak should work fine with many different brands.
Plus, there is built-in monitoring of cell temperature as well, so if there is any "out-of-bounds" condition - the Charger Pak will shut down the charge system.
The only downside to using the "protected cells" is that they are slightly longer than un-protected ones, therefore they're tougher to insert into the cell holders initially - and consequently almost impossible to "fall out" - they can be removed if necessary - but they'll never fall out - even under moderate shock conditions and upside down mounting.
doesn't solder them, right? What keeps the components from moving around before they get soldered?
Hi Steve -
They "stick" in the solder paste (solder and flux mixture) on each of the pads on the pcb. I'll post a pic here shortly of the "stenciling operation" that happens before the boards go through the PNP.
After PNP, the board goes past an inspection station, and then it goes through the "gates of ..." (you know what) - we call it the "oven" - where the solder paste is "re-flowed" and the components are bonded to the PCB.
Ken, Matt:
Is the price going to include batteries or not? From the sounds of it, the batteries are a big part of the cost. I can see wanting multiple boards (for my many bots), but I could switch batteries around between whatever bot I happen to be focused on that week. In other words, are you planning to sell the boards alone?
Comments
Of course not - I'd hoped somebody might ask:-)
Yes, the 30 watt, 6 volt solar panel is directly compatible with the Lion board. Our other cells have substantially less current, but they do work if you put enough of them in parallax, errr...parallel.
@ sam_x3 - I can't wait either.
Prop BOE began prototype production today! And then we've got a WiFi prototype thingy, and then another batch of Spinnerets, and then (something else I can't remember at this moment), and then the Lion 3x4, and then the Lion - Boe-Bot.
-Matt
Thanks for the updated info
(I think I might remember your visit?!)
-Matt
bomber, welcome to the forums!
Now, Matt, back to the UPEW preparations!
Ken Gracey
...and after I clean the ashes from the fireplace, then can I go to the Ball?
(sound of whip *crack*).
Ok! Ok! - I'm off, I'm off!
Private message to everybody except W. Stepmother: "Farewell dear friends, I must go for now- but I shall return!"
-Matt
Thanks for any info you can give on these items
-bomber
It is truly amazing (to me anyway) about the number of new products that we have in the channel right now. All of which I'm really excited about!
We have all the parts (necessary to build the Lions) in stock - we're just trying to >>>squeeze<<< it into the production schedule (beyond my control).
This is NOT a slam on our production team - they're actually Amazingly gifted at getting stuff "out the door" in relatively short order. However, I do think that the complexity of some of our products are...s t r e t c h i n g...our production capabilities sometimes.
That's one of the reasons why Ken is so adamant about getting the best production equipment that we can. The new KISS 102 is a good example of this, as is the Haas 4'x8' vacuum table router, and the Epilog Laser.
Prop BOE, Spinneret, WiFi, Lion 3x4, Lion BOE-bot version are only the tip-of-the-iceberg. I sense other RCS (Really Cool Stuff) on the near-horizon as well :-)
I'll get an update from our WPM (Wonderful Production Manager) Jennifer early this coming week about when is a realistic "in stock date". (I really hate to dangle the "carrot" for this long too!)
This Thread will be the first to know when the Boards will be ready for immediate shipment!
Thanks all for your patience!
-Matt
-Matt
Don't worry Matt, it gives us something to be looking forward to.
I hope that when you have them ready that I will have some money agian ...> Hope...> Hope....> Hope
Production is building these today, using every machine in the shop!
Question for you - how much are you willing to pay for the Lithium Ion Charger? Come on, just tell us! Lauren has to figure this out pretty soon. I know you're thinking "if we say too much then we're going to pay more than we need to". Of course we've clearly identified our manufacturing costs and expected return on this product already, so this bit of market research won't cost you extra dollars.
My concern is that the price will be too high.
Ken Gracey
For the batteries I would not want to see a price higher than 30% than the going web price rate
This is my 2 cent thought on this
Ken
Let have a pole to see if the price that you have in mind is to high or not....> just an idea
I "qc'd" and tested the very first one off the line - all systems are "go" !
-Matt
That was real cool
Matt
Let us know how the testing of those boards go
Thanks
Lev
The batteries appear to cost anywhere from $4 each to $12 each depending on the store and brand (doing a couple searches). So, perhaps a bundle of the board with 2 batteries would be able to be $39.99 or $44.99 (depending on the battery brand)?
Of course, I'm already planning to by 2-3 of these things regardless of the end result price... I'm probably not the best person to ask for a "good price".
Matt chose the highest quality batteries he could find, which are not the cheapest of course.
Our manufacturing costs (components, labor, excluding machine time) for the first run exceed $30/board. Design costs are another story, but this product is an investment in the future just like anything else we build.
I think we're right around the $50 mark, and even that price is too low based on our costs.
We'll do our best for you.
Ken Gracey
I, personally, would be fine paying $69 or even more per board. The value is there for me. If you can get them in the $50 range, then all the better.
For example, if you ask anybody in manufacturing or accounting the price is only based on our costs and expected return on investment. Ask a marketing person and the price should be set on what price others are selling similar hardware. Ask a distributor and they'll tell you "really high, so we can get a bigger margin". Ask an image consultant and they'll tell you that low-cost products may not convey value, and that market is for low-quality. The engineer who designs the product always wants it to be priced low - maybe 20% over your costs!
The price setting exercise really involves a little bit of knowledge in all of these areas, and a few more.
Ken Gracey
Matt, congratulations on getting the Li-ion pack successfully produced. That Pic-and-place machine is amazing. It just puts them on the board and doesn't solder them, right? What keeps the components from moving around before they get soldered?
When I watch that thing go, I can't help but sing The Ballad of John Henry in my head.
YouTube has the version I used to listen to growing up. I love this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgfxgKRc4jo
Yes, I did. They're the protected type and are made by a reputable company. However, the Charger Pak will work with almost any #18650 cell - cheap, expensive, protected, or not. You can get cells from us or anywhere else - the Charger Pak should work fine with many different brands.
Plus, there is built-in monitoring of cell temperature as well, so if there is any "out-of-bounds" condition - the Charger Pak will shut down the charge system.
The only downside to using the "protected cells" is that they are slightly longer than un-protected ones, therefore they're tougher to insert into the cell holders initially - and consequently almost impossible to "fall out" - they can be removed if necessary - but they'll never fall out - even under moderate shock conditions and upside down mounting.
-Matt
Hi Steve -
They "stick" in the solder paste (solder and flux mixture) on each of the pads on the pcb. I'll post a pic here shortly of the "stenciling operation" that happens before the boards go through the PNP.
After PNP, the board goes past an inspection station, and then it goes through the "gates of ..." (you know what) - we call it the "oven" - where the solder paste is "re-flowed" and the components are bonded to the PCB.
-Matt
Is the price going to include batteries or not? From the sounds of it, the batteries are a big part of the cost. I can see wanting multiple boards (for my many bots), but I could switch batteries around between whatever bot I happen to be focused on that week. In other words, are you planning to sell the boards alone?
Roy