It certainly is nice to have Finished Projects someplace within the Parallax web pages.
But I suspect that the nature of the presentation is more of a formal publishing task then that of just posting and being open to comments.
IMHO, if both Finished Projects and Tutorials are to be really worthwhile, they have to live up to some editorial standards and be subject to some sort of review. I know that may be unpopular with a lot of people on the web and in this forum, but we have all seen a huge increase in self-published material on the web that is mediocre in content and not well maintained.
In fact, I fear that people have forgotten the value of a good editor to assure quality control and that people consider a company a good authority on a subject.
In other words, you can't just let the process remain robotic. It takes a real presence of informed and intelligent people to gain a loyal readership.
To present a hobby project when it's flogged somewhere could discourage repeat postings. People emailed to say they won't post because their hobby brings fun & enjoyment and there's no need to bring in naysayers (to put it mildly). Other reasons include NDAs, waiting for publication, holding out for the project contest, a class project where you don't want to divulge secrets to other classmates, some don't want to share, some are lazy, some think they can make millions on a project, project already on a web page or blog site, or a project prepared for a professional product to be sold.
I was thinking about this thread again today and had an idea. What about a "Completed/Preferred Projects" sticky in the Completed Projects Forum? This would be like the Official Parallax Project Index, but would list completed projects regardless of where they are posted on the forums. The sticky could start off with several "listing" posts, of which each would list out projects for:
Truly Completed/Documented Projects
Completed Projects not in the Completed Projects Forum
I was thinking about this thread again today and had an idea. What about a "Completed/Preferred Projects" sticky in the Completed Projects Forum? This would be like the Official Parallax Project Index, but would list completed projects regardless of where they are posted on the forums. The sticky could start off with several "listing" posts, of which each would list out projects for:
Truly Completed/Documented Projects
Completed Projects not in the Completed Projects Forum
Favorite Projects (?)
Nearly Complete Projects
thoughts?
WBA, an index to forum user projects (not just Parallax projects) is a very good idea. I had planned on starting the list but time shortage resulted and the project is quite enormous considering one would need to come up with the list categories. I can see adding about 20 or 30 more categories as there are variations and exceptions to the list. The projects should include postings from the forum dating back about a decade. Maybe more than one person can work on this. The best I could do at this point is start my own project list, seen if you click on my signature.
Keep in mind a completed project doesn't need to be on a project specific PCB. There are several completed projects that are fully functional with complete code and schematics that exist on breadboards, proto boards, or development boards. My Propeller Based Metronome is done on perfboard but the thread meets all of the requirements for the completed projects forum.
There's a little "bleed-over" from this thread in Suggestions. I didn't realize the extend of this thread when I replied. This is an interesting discussion now that I see it.
One of the reasons why my 6 completed propeller projects, helped by the various members of Parallax back when I was a senior member, is their final "look" and the nature of the project.
This being said, my current list of 2.5 (yeah, one project is only 1/2 way between "thought" and "project" status) projects will be shared. For me, it's a matter of the final owner of the project, my considerations of it's usefulness, and ultimately how the project "looks" and "works".
I think that one problem with the "Completed Projects" forum is that the criteria for posting is far and above having "completed" a project.
I think that the requirement for source code and schematics should be relaxed. I am sure that there are many people who would like to show off their creations but do not want to bare all. It is a shame that there are likely many cool "completed" projects out there that will never be included due to the strict documentation requirements.
For those that do include the documentation, they should be recognized for their efforts.
Maybe there is a misunderstanding of whether or not source code and schematics are truly a requirement. I have felt that posting a project without source code and schematics was discouraged, but maybe that is not the case?
Forum Description;
Post your completed projects here, made from Parallax products. We encourage you to provide schematic, code and explanation
From the "PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING" post;
you should have the project working as per the description with schematics, source code and pictures detailing the project.
The original concept wasn't so much to show off projects that others had done as to provide a resource for other forum members to be able to build the cool things that their fellow forum members had built. When someone posts a project and doesn't provide code or a schematic, then it no longer meets the criteria to receive the $100.00 credit that marketing offers if the project is posted on our website and it is also not available for others to build.
These things (forums rules / guidelines) are currently in the process of being re-evaluated and may or may not change. But if they do then it will be a loss for those who hope to build something they see posted. Parallax created the forum in the spirit of sharing and open-source and by allowing people to post a picture of something and a small description moves away from that concept.
The original concept wasn't so much to show off projects that others had done as to provide a resource for other forum members to be able to build the cool things that their fellow forum members had built.
I think that is a good idea but "Completed Projects" is a bit misleading. I know that I have at least one completed project that sure seems like it should belong in the Completed Projects forum but it does not because of the demanding criteria.
When someone posts a project and doesn't provide code or a schematic, then it no longer meets the criteria to receive the $100.00 credit that marketing offers if the project is posted on our website and it is also not available for others to build.
The way I read it, you must submit your project directly to Parallax to be eligible for the $100 credit. It specifically says that posting in the forum is not sufficient.
These things (forums rules / guidelines) are currently in the process of being re-evaluated and may or may not change. But if they do then it will be a loss for those who hope to build something they see posted.
I don't agree with that. There is still the incentive to make well documented submissions, no reason to take that away. Allowing undocumented projects to be shared should not make anyone feel as though they have suffered a loss. In fact, there should be feelings of inspiration when they see all the interesting ways that Parallax products are being used.
Parallax created the forum in the spirit of sharing and open-source and by allowing people to post a picture of something and a small description moves away from that concept.
Sharing? I am arguing for people being able to share their projects, not against it. To say that you don't want people to share their projects if they don't provide all the technical details to replicate it is... exclusionary. I do agree that there must be some criteria for posting a project. A short description and a picture, not a link to a picture, should be mandatory.
I apologize if I was unclear...as I said the status of that forum is being revisited while we complete forum migration and other changes. This may take a couple of weeks and some things will be revised and/or updated at that point. I was speaking strictly for the original concept of the Completed Projects forum to be a kind of database of projects that our customers could build rather than a showcase of projects others had built.
Again, since the idea was to encourage others to share their work so that their fellow forum members might be able to build these projects, it was important to make sure all of the data was available. We lifted these restrictions once in the past and it resulted in projects being posted that were nothing more than a picture of a project and a line such as, "Here is what I built." This had forum members asking Tech Support if we had additional information on some of these projects and/or ideas on how they might build them.
Obviously having the completed projects forum should not require additional support from our Tech Support Dept. Also, some projects posted during that time were simply links to projects on other sites, some of which later went down causing the links to be outdated and broken. This also requires additional resources from us to follow up on old projects which should not have to happen.
By requesting all the relevant data for the project up front and for it to be posted we can avoid out of date links, calls to Tech Support, and replies from other members asking for information that go unanswered.
Let me mention at this point that Parallax is in the process of migrating the forums from the current vBulletin 3.x to the vBulletin 4.x software. The newer version of the software includes member blogs, which could be used for members to post their projects without potentially being off topic in the Completed Projects forum under the current guidelines. Blogs are often used by hobbyists to showcase their work without falling into rules/guidelines enforced in a forum environment, where the messages are typically supposed to be on topic.
Once the new version of the forums is up it would make sense that those who want to share projects that don't fit into the Completed Projects forum will post in their blogs. Photos albums are currently and will be available for each member as are custom social groups (also currently available). Any member is welcome to create and manage a projects group here on the Parallax Forums without needing to meet the criteria for projects posted within the moderated forums.
We welcome your feedback, and I assure you that I do not make these decisions unanimously and that these issues are discussed at meetings regarding the forums. While I cannot guarantee changes to the policies, I can guarantee that we are making every effort to provide our members and customers with more tools to be able to realize their project goals.
Comments
But I suspect that the nature of the presentation is more of a formal publishing task then that of just posting and being open to comments.
IMHO, if both Finished Projects and Tutorials are to be really worthwhile, they have to live up to some editorial standards and be subject to some sort of review. I know that may be unpopular with a lot of people on the web and in this forum, but we have all seen a huge increase in self-published material on the web that is mediocre in content and not well maintained.
In fact, I fear that people have forgotten the value of a good editor to assure quality control and that people consider a company a good authority on a subject.
In other words, you can't just let the process remain robotic. It takes a real presence of informed and intelligent people to gain a loyal readership.
- Truly Completed/Documented Projects
- Completed Projects not in the Completed Projects Forum
- Favorite Projects (?)
- Nearly Complete Projects
thoughts?Its the economies fault.
OBC
This being said, my current list of 2.5 (yeah, one project is only 1/2 way between "thought" and "project" status) projects will be shared. For me, it's a matter of the final owner of the project, my considerations of it's usefulness, and ultimately how the project "looks" and "works".
Just my 2 cents worth...
KK
I think that the requirement for source code and schematics should be relaxed. I am sure that there are many people who would like to show off their creations but do not want to bare all. It is a shame that there are likely many cool "completed" projects out there that will never be included due to the strict documentation requirements.
For those that do include the documentation, they should be recognized for their efforts.
Rich H
Forum Description;
From the "PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING" post;
Rich H
The original concept wasn't so much to show off projects that others had done as to provide a resource for other forum members to be able to build the cool things that their fellow forum members had built. When someone posts a project and doesn't provide code or a schematic, then it no longer meets the criteria to receive the $100.00 credit that marketing offers if the project is posted on our website and it is also not available for others to build.
These things (forums rules / guidelines) are currently in the process of being re-evaluated and may or may not change. But if they do then it will be a loss for those who hope to build something they see posted. Parallax created the forum in the spirit of sharing and open-source and by allowing people to post a picture of something and a small description moves away from that concept.
I think that is a good idea but "Completed Projects" is a bit misleading. I know that I have at least one completed project that sure seems like it should belong in the Completed Projects forum but it does not because of the demanding criteria.
The way I read it, you must submit your project directly to Parallax to be eligible for the $100 credit. It specifically says that posting in the forum is not sufficient.
I don't agree with that. There is still the incentive to make well documented submissions, no reason to take that away. Allowing undocumented projects to be shared should not make anyone feel as though they have suffered a loss. In fact, there should be feelings of inspiration when they see all the interesting ways that Parallax products are being used.
Sharing? I am arguing for people being able to share their projects, not against it. To say that you don't want people to share their projects if they don't provide all the technical details to replicate it is... exclusionary. I do agree that there must be some criteria for posting a project. A short description and a picture, not a link to a picture, should be mandatory.
Rich H
I apologize if I was unclear...as I said the status of that forum is being revisited while we complete forum migration and other changes. This may take a couple of weeks and some things will be revised and/or updated at that point. I was speaking strictly for the original concept of the Completed Projects forum to be a kind of database of projects that our customers could build rather than a showcase of projects others had built.
Again, since the idea was to encourage others to share their work so that their fellow forum members might be able to build these projects, it was important to make sure all of the data was available. We lifted these restrictions once in the past and it resulted in projects being posted that were nothing more than a picture of a project and a line such as, "Here is what I built." This had forum members asking Tech Support if we had additional information on some of these projects and/or ideas on how they might build them.
Obviously having the completed projects forum should not require additional support from our Tech Support Dept. Also, some projects posted during that time were simply links to projects on other sites, some of which later went down causing the links to be outdated and broken. This also requires additional resources from us to follow up on old projects which should not have to happen.
By requesting all the relevant data for the project up front and for it to be posted we can avoid out of date links, calls to Tech Support, and replies from other members asking for information that go unanswered.
Let me mention at this point that Parallax is in the process of migrating the forums from the current vBulletin 3.x to the vBulletin 4.x software. The newer version of the software includes member blogs, which could be used for members to post their projects without potentially being off topic in the Completed Projects forum under the current guidelines. Blogs are often used by hobbyists to showcase their work without falling into rules/guidelines enforced in a forum environment, where the messages are typically supposed to be on topic.
Once the new version of the forums is up it would make sense that those who want to share projects that don't fit into the Completed Projects forum will post in their blogs. Photos albums are currently and will be available for each member as are custom social groups (also currently available). Any member is welcome to create and manage a projects group here on the Parallax Forums without needing to meet the criteria for projects posted within the moderated forums.
We welcome your feedback, and I assure you that I do not make these decisions unanimously and that these issues are discussed at meetings regarding the forums. While I cannot guarantee changes to the policies, I can guarantee that we are making every effort to provide our members and customers with more tools to be able to realize their project goals.