Why isn't the Completed Projects forum more active?
WBA Consulting
Posts: 2,935
One thing that seems to be vital to the life of any microcontroller is the ability for people to see what others are doing with it. This is clearly proven by completed projects winning contests, receiving awards, having web pages, youtube videos, instructables, etc, etc.
Parallax microcontrollers are no different in the aspect of people sharing their projects when completed. However, since we actually have a forum dedicated to that subject that only sees an average of 5 new threads per month, I was wondering why. With a forum of 20,000 users, I would expect a few more projects being completed. Based upon that, why are the projects not being posted?
Are these thoughts possible reasons????
Parallax microcontrollers are no different in the aspect of people sharing their projects when completed. However, since we actually have a forum dedicated to that subject that only sees an average of 5 new threads per month, I was wondering why. With a forum of 20,000 users, I would expect a few more projects being completed. Based upon that, why are the projects not being posted?
Are these thoughts possible reasons????
- Completed project thread requirements too time consuming
- Code is too messy to be willing to share
- Project can't be shared because it's for a commercial product (or ?)
- A work in progress thread basically has all the info, but not in the completed project thread format, and you have the time to clean it up
- You think it's a simple project and not worth the time to format a completed project thread
- You didn't take any work in progress pictures and the end project is "photo friendly"
- ??
- ??
Comments
Here in Oregon it rains from the beginning of fall to the end of spring. So best to get outside stuff done in the summer. But rain is on the way, so I'm moving back inside again. Just got my Propeller and Stamp fired up again...
...now if only I could remember how my programs work! :idea:
(HYDRA Forum) Projects Master List
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?t=108626
Cluso99's Emulator Thread
http://forums.parallaxinc.com/forums/default.aspx?f=25&m=321808
I am sure there are many more that are being maintained as well.
Propeller game/emulation projects are mostly 'software based' projects, and would have a hard time meeting requirements like pictures/diagrams. Typically they are not new hardware designs.
Almost all of my work is "hobby" related, and I do a lot of stuff just "for fun". This means that I often get stuff far enough to say "it works", and then it's off to something else.
"interesting" things that fall into this category that I've done, but are now either "dismantled" (temporarily or permanently), or "I forget what/how this thing did", include using the color sensor to read test vials and colored strips for aquarium testing, a pH probe reader, drop counter using the line scanner (touchy, but doable), LED Dimmer, Reverse Osmosis system controller (SX Based, will be redone Prop wise) and a few others. Are these worth sharing? Some probably yes, others probably not.
I also have a Crustcrawler Nomad hexapod (discontinued, and decidedly different than the current Nomad offering). It was "finished" at least 3 times, but is currently "mod labotomy".
An area for "less formal" and/or "WIP" stuff would be neat.
John R.
Chris
As for the Obex, my feeling is that code really has to be 100% before it goes there (at least, that is the standard I see in code that is already there. Rock solid, well documented etc).
But thanks for posting this thread - it is a timely reminder to me (and maybe others) to finish projects I start.
My machines are monuments to what can be done with ebay, aluminum, dull hacksaws, duct tape, ignorance and discarded dreams.
My test results are probably wrong, premature, or statistically insignificant, and what's not all of the aforementioned is banned from public scrutiny.
I'm routinely appalled at the kind of simple-minded gizmos that some people are granted patents for and so, with my luck, something I might post would only precipitate an armored caravan of low-rent lawyers armed with cease-and-desist orders aimed at my most rudimentary technologies.
Other than that, I'm an open book.
I do have some small personal projects I don't devote much time to, but if any of them ever come to (one is very simple but very dramatic, might actually happen before the Rapture) I'll CPP it.
The biggest complaints from members regarding the Completed Projects forum was that they couldn't post in-progress projects or links to off-site projects. In order to make sure all data was available for everyone, all content was requested to be uploaded to the Parallax site. Not everyone followed this rule and many projects were moved out of the forum.
Another issue was people asking support questions in the Completed Projects thread. Almost nobody read the "READ THIS BEFORE POSTING" sticky thread, so they would later say they didn't realize they were in the wrong forum, or what was required.
Long before these things became issues I had all my projects on my website, but others could not comment or ask questions. I received a lot of e-mail on this and eventually revamped my website to allow this. Members asked for both a projects in progress forum where they could showcase what they were working on as well as a completed projects forum wfor when the project was finished. I provided both of these, but to date the completed projects area for members is empty and the projects in progress has maybe two threads. You have to be willing to do a little work for what you want.
My point is that many people want to showcase their work, but they don't want to have to do a lot to make it happen. The difference in my site originally was that projects on my site would not lose ground to the constant pushing down of threads by new support questions. but again, even after Parallax added the Completed Projects forum, getting members to upload all the data needed by someone to build the project themselves was almost impossible. That, and you have to remember, this is mainly a support site for Parallax products with some marketing thrown in. That is what the site is about. So looking at it as a showcase or repository of completed projects isn't necessarily the best way to think of it if you want attention on your projects.
I fail to see how instructables has become so popular when so much is missing from most of the projects posted and it is difficult to find anything in the multitude of instuctables. This is the principle reason my site was rebuilt...to provide a place for microcontroller hobbyists to showcase their projects and share ideas. Not microcontrollers, PCs, Model Rocketry, Lock Picking, etc. the focus is more on microcontroller-based projects. If that happens to be a model rocket launcher, then that is great, but you don't have to search through dozens of posts on model rockets to find the microcntroller rocket launcher.
Having a little moderation helps keep everything on the level. My two cents.
The personal project I might finish fairly soon would be a drive controller for a lapidary saw. It's a very, very simple thing, and the only reason it warrants a Propeller is that it needs to be RF remote controlled and I'll be doing that via wifi. It's not likely to be useful to anyone unless they also have a very particular obsolete Lortone rock slabbing saw, but it's a good example of how the Prop can do the Stamp type stuff and tack on a TCP/IP stack just because it can, which I think is kind of neat. I will of course include pictures of the saw and descriptions of why the controls need to work the way they do. Would you consider something like that, which might not be so useful to people who don't own a Lortone LS-14, appropariate for the CPP?
Mr Savage
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I can't believe that you haven't linked the forum changes to the lack of object exchange.
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I posted a one cog Demo for the RFID module #28440 (RFID-tag reader), just before the forums changed. I don't see my code in the Object exchange forum.
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I also can't find older threads like LMM?
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Fixing the forums might help fixing the Object exchange.
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I guess lavender an pastel colors are cool in California - Not so much in Florida
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How is the rest of the world looking at these forums?
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I think you hold the answer "Mr.Savage"
No lavender in fa-la-la-la-Florida?
Surely you jest!
Have you not seen the MacArthur Causeway?
We have additional color schemes ready to go when we have completed the message corrections. More details are available over in the Support for the Forums.
2. It is hard to find time to complete a full presentation (including good photos).
3. Often what I'm doing is redundant as it is learning, so why post yet another of the same.
Let me ask this.
Why is the Completed Projects forum so important?
It seems to me that most of us need to share knowledge and resources for works in progress. I do appreciate the contest results for examples of excellence, but don't really want to duplicate anything bolt for bolt and line for line. More contests with award winners certainly have equal or better appeal as examples of what can and is being done. (But those are somewhere else, beyond the Forums.)
The heartbeat of the Parallax Forums is (was?) learning micro-controllers and related physical device construction. It is all about Q&A, not really so much about Show & Tell.
And the greatest barrier to completing projects is that I simply don't have the home machine shop (with related budget) that would really allow to build everything I'd like to. I either have to buy parts out of a catalog or seek out salvage that might work. Those resources stifle a lot of neat projects.
So rather than focus on 'finished projects', it might be better to have forums that focus on particular aspects of learning - some mechanical, some electronic, some software.
In any event, websites are beasts - they easily get out of hand as little tweaks make assumptions that have huge unknown impacts. The Propeller Object Exchange is not as user-friendly and intelligently helpful as it might be and I find myself spending more time on 'the other side of Parallax' as the 'need-to-know' information is there.
So why bother asking someone when I have to dig anyway?
I suppose one benefit of having an extensive Projects Forum is that it lures new people into the Parallaxian universe. If somebody out there is looking for a homebrew atomic force microscope or an automatic asteroid detection system and there's one or two already posted on the Projects Forum, well then, "Here we go."
From my perspective, definitely YES! The value in seeing projects isn't just to see, or be able to build the specific project, but also to be able to adapt a project for ones own uses. In the case of your saw control, there is all kinds of useful stuff going on, for example:
- TCP/IP stack
- Communication from a remote souce over TCP/IP and to the program
- How to tie in WiFi
- How to send the data from a remote source
- Using input from the above to cause actions
- An example of how to control a device that requires more than a single simple on/off (If I understand your project correctly)
I'd like to think that most projects that get built from information in the completed projects forum are not "duplicates", but "adaptations". Wheather the adaptation is simply a nicer case/enclosure, or a very different application, who knows. But the world would be pretty boring if all we did was copy someone elses work without changing anything...John R.
I've put together dozens of small propeller experiments. but almost none of them qualify as a complete "project".
One that would, a portable logging GPS tracker, I cobbled together out of so many spare parts that while it works great, appearance-wise, it would be an embarrassment to present as a project.
I like the idea of the Savage Circuits "projects in progress"; in fact, I joined that forum just for that reason, although I haven't yet posted any projects in progress.
One reason for that is my projects in progress often never get finished. This is a hobby, and I often set aside partially worked on projects to work on a more interesting idea, and wouldn't want anyone expecting that any given project will be completed.
But that's too bad, as I've developed lots of useful code and techniques that I know some people are interested in - operating floppy drives, hard drives, DRAM, stuff like that. Just the other day I had a person ask about how you go about syncing to the floppy disk device bit stream.
So I think a "works in progress" or "current experimentations" section would be really useful, both for inspiration and to present useful code fragments for others to cut and paste into their own projects.
I would like to see just what you are talking about because I have taken routine that I have seen other people use and change it to work on what I am doing
And when I have done this I have learn a few thing about writing code That I did not know
@localroger - It may be that the current requirements of the Completed Projects board need to be re-evaluated. Currently they require all data needed to complete a project to be included in the post. The reasons for this is that many people would post something like, "Hey I just made this new Garage Parking Assistant" and here is a picture." This would be followed by tons of people asking for code, schematics, etc. When these weren't followed up by the poster, Parallax would get the requests.
@$WMc% - I haven't mentioned the forum changes for two reasons. The first is for the same reason I haven't 'fixed' the Completed Projects listings by Parallax, which is the forums are still being corrected for migration issues. Once that is complete then I will revisit my own threads and fix them. I would expect a certain amount of issues for now. The second reason is that in all fairness, the forum change has ultimately made things easier in almost every way since now the search engine works and 'lost' posts can easily be found. The new software went up and members started creating social groups and photo albums and really taking advantage of the new features vBulletin has to offer. I fail to see where the change has negatively affected the Completed Projects board if that's what you mean.
@pi'd - Eventually there will be more forum themes. I for one am glad the themes from the old site are gone as some would result in the foreground color being the same as another themes background color, meaning messages by people with those themes couldn't be read by others. At first glance the message appeared to be blank.
@Loopy Byteloose - The Completed Projects forum was something the members asked for until they got it. But it is hard to make everyone happy. Many members have their project on their own site and would be happy to just link to that, while others don't want to have to leave the site. Those responsible for moderation don't like to get occasional floods of e-mail saying someone's link to their project is broken, because now it is additional work to try and fix or delete when the problem could be handled by having all the data there from the start.
@ElectricAye - One benefit of having it here is as you say, that it lures more people into using the products. But that could be said for any website posting a Parallax product-based project. If these projects were only posted on the Parallax site and weren't out there in other places, it might look like we're stacking the deck. I guess the point it that it helps for anyone posting a project anywhere to mention and even link to the Parallax website when using their products.
@David B - I'm glad you like the idea...it was something requested but not used. I am thinking that perhaps the better course of action for the future would be to simply host the information here somehow. The few new users to the Savage Circuits site has expressed concerns of overlap from this site. I am starting to think my original goal of redesigning my own website is now out of date with the new software here and the base of users that would prefer to post here. 35 active members out of 155 speaks volumes for the recent changes. Compare that to 910 active here. Forum members here have asked and Parallax has made every attempt to address those needs, so there's probably no need to duplicate efforts elsewhere. Sometimes there is something to be said for putting all your eggs into one basket.
One the migration changes are completed I will attempt to fix the Completed Projects forum for current issues and see what the new policy (if any changes) will be for posting projects.
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I didn't mean to sound negative about the forum changes. My intention was pointing out the fact that the forums were under construction, And this was the main reason for the lack of completed projects on the forums lately.
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I still have not found the new search engine working yet.I assume its still under construction.
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Sorry for the negative over-tones. I'll try to be more descriptive in my future post's.
I'm using a PropRPM with a uController.com PropNic ENC28J60 module for the TCP comms, two 2N2222's to pull down relays, and five inputs with pullups. I'd say that info, plus a photo of the modded PropRPM, should be sufficient; I didn't bother to do a schematic for myself and there's no point, since it's all point to point wiring and if you don't know how to do it from that description, you need to do some reading and practice and learn how to; every single project shouldn't have to function as a Prop 101 tutorial on how to do basic stuff like pull down a relay.
What I'd rather present is pictures of the mechanical arrangement -- hey, it's like industrial controls, only in my garage, and that's a different kind of robotics than you usually see on hobby sites -- some discussion of the software methodology, simple as it is; and shots of it in action. Of course I'd provide the software but there's not going to be much there, just a Stamp-worthy app with Harrison's TCP tacked on to remote control it, and it's not going to be real useful to anyone unless they stumble upon a Lortone LS-14 and rocks to cut with it.
It certainly is hard to make everyone happy. Sometimes what we ask for isn't really a great idea. In this case, Parallax itself seems to be concerned. It could be that Finished Projects just don't fit in a Forum context and another way of do so might be better.
As I mentioned before, I love the prize award listings and return to them often for inspiration. I'd love to see more like that.
There is no real reason to have everyone have access to posting comments and dialog to completed projects. Mostly a moderator and the project builder are the ones that need to revise things. Maybe a polling system for favorites would be the best for general user interface.
In other words, the best web sites tend to maintain themselves. But some features and aspects of websites will always demand more management.
I also visit an art website, and the people there can post a partially-completed project, and get comments and ideas. The title will have "WIP" in it. (Which seemed a little weird until I realized it was "Work In Progress") They also move threads which are very helpful into a read-only Library section.
Perhaps each forum here could have a WIP sub-forum for, well, Works In Progress. And maybe there could be -- if there isn't already? -- a "Preferred Schematic Program."
I am not too sure if intermediate stage photos would help. Unless you have my development setup -- which is rather esoteric -- the intermediate photos would just lead to frustration. And since most of what I do involves coding, intermediate code dumps would cause confusion with the possibility of bugs in the code. Or hardware.
Just my two scents,
--Rich
Currently I believe you can rate threads with 1 to 5 stars, so that gives members a way to rate the various projects. As for the other suggestions I would post those into the Suggestions to Parallax board where they can be considered by those that make those decisions. Take care.
I want to help others where I can. For example, I submitted an object to the obex because a lot of people were asking about unipolar steppers and there was nothing in the obex at the time. Motor control is basic building block stuff. It is necessary knowledge.
So many people have helped me that you have to give back. You have to. Another thing is that what I my project matters a lot more to me than it does to other people. Most people are probably not all that interested in the little details of my project anyway. Just my two cents.
I'm under the belief that some of these projects here would take 100 or more pages to document and the TCP/IP stack would take a lot of pages to document. I think they would take more than 30 hours to properly document. I was looking at a manual for another third party processor and the manual was 450+ pages long.
The other thing which would hold me back are the patent trolls. People would read a project here and unscrupulously copy it.
I own Microsoft Word but that may not be the most friendly publishing program. I have a digital camera but the notebook I use has USB 1.1 and is slower than the desktop using USB 2.0. Organizing, cropping and sizing photos takes time. Backing them up, organizing and creating directories takes time.
The other consideration is that people work for a living and have less time to blog because blogging is work. Adults are more sensitive with releasing work that isn't "polished" and don't like to be embarassed because they all don't have access to a proofreader.
I think the whole question presupposes people's skill level. They buy the kits from here along with the books because it teaches them how to do something. It doesn't mean they all have the practice needed to take electronics to the next level.
Even though I have a digital camera, it is hard to get the lighting right for blogging. I don't have money for professional boards and equipment.
And I'm bothered by purists who might correct me on not just my choices but how I might describe how something works.