I like PIC32, but I wonder: Why would Martin put that on a Propeller ASC module?
I think he meant to illustrate the reason for the difference in prices between the PIC32 and Prop. It's not so much the overall price, but the stingy qty breaks that tweak me.
I think he meant to illustrate the reason for the difference in prices between the PIC32 and Prop. It's not so much the overall price, but the stingy qty breaks that tweak me.
Nice word "glaum", P.J.Allen just pointed me to a dictionary definition. Seems to be more of a Scottish or Irish slang, I don't recall ever hearing it in England and Google has yet to turn up a real example of it's use for me.
Isn't the point of something like the ASC (Arduino Shield Compatible) to provide Propeller hardware that is compatible with Arduino shields? Not to produce an Arduino clone.
If I want to program using the Arduino IDE, I don't mind using an AVR-based Arduino.
If I want to program a Propeller and use Arduino-compatible shields, then I will use something like this.
Currently it's like you describe. To provide a SPIN/PASM interface to Arduino shields. But if it could be possible to run a sketch or two all the better.
(My recent great expenditure of money coupled with Leon's perfectly timed announcement had me in a mild panic. )
If you are going to use C++, why not just use a real Arduino? That is why people like the ASC because you can program it in SPIN/PASM... Oh, Martin i am sending you a PM. Sorry it took so long:)
what about duplicating the Arduino libraries in Spin?
That is a great idea. Most of them are probably already in the OBEX. I2C, SPI, ADC, etc. It's all there.
I still need to get with Hanno about a 12blocks bundle too.
There are also several cheap AVR programmable solutions for USB-RS232 that could be programmed as a replacement for FT232, but that would look funny on a propeller board unless the label was sanded.
Why ? I see the Arduino has flipped from using a FTDI device, to using a small USB Micro.
To me that makes FAR more sense, as they are the same price, or cheaper, and MUCH smarter.
( A pre programmed PIC18F13K50 is likely what the MCP2200 actually is - close to identical prices )
With a small local USB-Micro, you can add Instrumentation, (Frequency Counter flying probe, Voltmeter, and Clock Generator etc, all PC controlled), and have room for a Debug kernal link.
It does not really need the label sanded, as it is doing a very focused task.
My choice would be either an Mega32U (forums show the 8U is already too small for all the fruit in the Arduino link...) because that can coat-tail on the same eco-system,
or maybe jump slightly above that, to the
* LPC11Uxx, 32 bit and faster Counters, LPC11u is showing here http://ics.nxp.com/support/lpcxpresso/, but not on stock yet
but I expect this to be sub $2 in small volumes;
or even a slight move to the
* NUC120L, 32 bit faster counters, and has 12b ADC, and 5V , and still sub $2.50 100+, so cheaper than FTDI options.
NUTINY-SDK-120-ND is under $20 @ Digikey.
Notice I do not really care what core the USB-uC has, but better ADC and better timer-resource mean better 'Instruments', and that is important. The PIC32 others mentioned, is much more expensive, and in a larger package, with only 10b ADC - not such a good fit for
a USB-uC 'in the corner'.
Very cool project Martin- a wonder that no one has done it yet. Lots of people have invested a bunch of time and money in Arduino shields. This gives them a nice bridge to use those peripherals with a more capable processor. Let me know how I can help.
Hanno
jmg, that's some good info, thanks! I already have a good stock of FT232 chips from a China distributor for $2.80 ea. but I'll look into the other offerings. I think as long as the chip has drivers available and appears to the PC as a standard COM port then the various propeller loaders should work. The FTDI chip is a good fit because it requires no external components apart from the standard decoupling caps. The Mega-U chips and MCP2200 also need an external oscillator and components on the USB lines.
Hanno, I will be contacting you in the next few days to discuss 12blocks.
Why ? I see the Arduino has flipped from using a FTDI device, to using a small USB Micro.
I think you are asking "why ?" sand off the package printing. It is unclear.
Nice pointers on devices in your post.
If I had an AVR to do the task, I would definitely be interested in taking advantage of its other features. I might even just leave off the Propeller altogether if I had the right part.
Martin you bring up a very good point about the oscillator on the MCP2200. I bought 50 FT232's to get a discount because i know i'll use them. It's nice that the price has dropped recently.
jmg, that's some good info, thanks! ... The FTDI chip is a good fit because it requires no external components apart from the standard decoupling caps. The Mega-U chips and MCP2200 also need an external oscillator and components on the USB lines.
Yes, it is a good first-step, but on the subject of external Osc, I decided to allow for the Crystal/Resonator in the Instrument budget/angle, and they start quite small and cheap with something like the small CSTCE16M0V53-R0 at 26c on reels, and 53c 100+
I think the smaller 32 bit uC will give better Reciprocal Frequency Counter operation, than the 8 bit ones, good for ~ 7 digits, and <100ns timing.
I can see I'll need to get a NUTINY-SDK-120-ND to confirm this.
Great photos Martin
BTW that is a great price for the FT232R.
jmg: Why would you sand the chips? It is not important that you use an oppositions chip for specific functions. That is just common sense.
For a long time I have believed the FT232R chip is way over-priced. However, the other solutions seem to always have other issues, such as drivers, and/or response times. I have searched the internet when each of these chips are mentioned and they always seem to have way more problems than the FT232R chip.
I took a risk and ordered a batch on eBay from China. I wouldn't recommend anyone do that unless they know what they're doing. I tested some random samples when they arrived and all was good.
Since there seems to be more interest in the photos that in the board so here's a how-to...
All you need is an old florescent desk lamp, the kind with the magnifier in the middle, and an inexpensive camera with macro capability -- a FinePix S1800 in this case. Take the magnifying glass out of the lamp and shoot through the center. A poboy's ring flash.
I ship anywhere the US postal service ships, which should include Norway. Let me check on that, sometimes their API is a little flaky.
(If you prefer, you can PM me your address and what you want to order and I will get you set up.)
EDIT:
Intl shipping through USPS is $13.25 everywhere. So that would be your shipping cost.
I ship anywhere the US postal service ships, which should include Norway. Let me check on that, sometimes their API is a little flaky.
(If you prefer, you can PM me your address and what you want to order and I will get you set up.)
EDIT:
Intl shipping through USPS is $13.25 everywhere. So that would be your shipping cost.
Martin, thanks for the information.
May I ask you when the bundles with adapters will be back?
How the shipping price changes for ordering more than one board? (let's say 2 ASC+, two adapters and one USB-to-serial).
Some time ago, when the shipping estimate was "working", it didn't get under $60 (to Italy) unless I took out all but one board from the cart O_o
Well that's certainly not right. You might have been looking at the ridiculous UPS prices. (UPS is gone as a choice now. They keep terminating my accounts anyway) Anything you order will total much less than the 4lb weight limit of a small flat-rate box from the US Post. Today I enabled a zone module that should come up with the $13.25 at checkout for overseas orders. If you're charged more than that I'll refund the discrepancy.
Comments
Glaum: to grasp or snatch at; to aspire to.
...as root of "Glom"...
To seize upon or latch onto something: "Microchip has now glommed onto the Arduino juggernaut"
Yes, that is what I meant.
Isn't the point of something like the ASC (Arduino Shield Compatible) to provide Propeller hardware that is compatible with Arduino shields? Not to produce an Arduino clone.
If I want to program using the Arduino IDE, I don't mind using an AVR-based Arduino.
If I want to program a Propeller and use Arduino-compatible shields, then I will use something like this.
(My recent great expenditure of money coupled with Leon's perfectly timed announcement had me in a mild panic.
That way, even if somebody can't directly use their sketches, the syntax will at least be familiar enough to make the transition.
That is a great idea. Most of them are probably already in the OBEX. I2C, SPI, ADC, etc. It's all there.
I still need to get with Hanno about a 12blocks bundle too.
Why ? I see the Arduino has flipped from using a FTDI device, to using a small USB Micro.
To me that makes FAR more sense, as they are the same price, or cheaper, and MUCH smarter.
( A pre programmed PIC18F13K50 is likely what the MCP2200 actually is - close to identical prices )
With a small local USB-Micro, you can add Instrumentation, (Frequency Counter flying probe, Voltmeter, and Clock Generator etc, all PC controlled), and have room for a Debug kernal link.
It does not really need the label sanded, as it is doing a very focused task.
My choice would be either an Mega32U (forums show the 8U is already too small for all the fruit in the Arduino link...) because that can coat-tail on the same eco-system,
or maybe jump slightly above that, to the
* LPC11Uxx, 32 bit and faster Counters, LPC11u is showing here http://ics.nxp.com/support/lpcxpresso/, but not on stock yet
but I expect this to be sub $2 in small volumes;
or even a slight move to the
* NUC120L, 32 bit faster counters, and has 12b ADC, and 5V , and still sub $2.50 100+, so cheaper than FTDI options.
NUTINY-SDK-120-ND is under $20 @ Digikey.
Notice I do not really care what core the USB-uC has, but better ADC and better timer-resource mean better 'Instruments', and that is important. The PIC32 others mentioned, is much more expensive, and in a larger package, with only 10b ADC - not such a good fit for
a USB-uC 'in the corner'.
Hanno
Hanno, I will be contacting you in the next few days to discuss 12blocks.
Nice pointers on devices in your post.
If I had an AVR to do the task, I would definitely be interested in taking advantage of its other features. I might even just leave off the Propeller altogether if I had the right part.
Martin you bring up a very good point about the oscillator on the MCP2200. I bought 50 FT232's to get a discount because i know i'll use them. It's nice that the price has dropped recently.
Yes, it is a good first-step, but on the subject of external Osc, I decided to allow for the Crystal/Resonator in the Instrument budget/angle, and they start quite small and cheap with something like the small CSTCE16M0V53-R0 at 26c on reels, and 53c 100+
I think the smaller 32 bit uC will give better Reciprocal Frequency Counter operation, than the 8 bit ones, good for ~ 7 digits, and <100ns timing.
I can see I'll need to get a NUTINY-SDK-120-ND to confirm this.
The blue solder mask really makes a difference. These units are gorgeous! Stock will be replenished today or tomorrow, so get your credit cards ready!
BTW that is a great price for the FT232R.
jmg: Why would you sand the chips? It is not important that you use an oppositions chip for specific functions. That is just common sense.
For a long time I have believed the FT232R chip is way over-priced. However, the other solutions seem to always have other issues, such as drivers, and/or response times. I have searched the internet when each of these chips are mentioned and they always seem to have way more problems than the FT232R chip.
I took a risk and ordered a batch on eBay from China. I wouldn't recommend anyone do that unless they know what they're doing. I tested some random samples when they arrived and all was good.
All you need is an old florescent desk lamp, the kind with the magnifier in the middle, and an inexpensive camera with macro capability -- a FinePix S1800 in this case. Take the magnifying glass out of the lamp and shoot through the center. A poboy's ring flash.
(The "ring light" worked out very well for this too!)
Rick
(The "plus" versions will be available on the 27th)
...wonder where my cat dragged all those neglected shields??
Mine arrived today. I'd like to write more now but I need to start working on some sketches for a new installation!!
Great job on a fine product!!
(Also could use RT's and #FF's.)
I'm trying to order one but the 'estimate shipping' doesn't seem to work.. do you ship to Norway?
-Tor
(If you prefer, you can PM me your address and what you want to order and I will get you set up.)
EDIT:
Intl shipping through USPS is $13.25 everywhere. So that would be your shipping cost.
Martin, thanks for the information.
May I ask you when the bundles with adapters will be back?
How the shipping price changes for ordering more than one board? (let's say 2 ASC+, two adapters and one USB-to-serial).
Some time ago, when the shipping estimate was "working", it didn't get under $60 (to Italy) unless I took out all but one board from the cart O_o
The bundles are back as I write this.