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Call for Comments; Ethernet for Propeller Platform — Parallax Forums

Call for Comments; Ethernet for Propeller Platform

Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
edited 2010-08-03 01:49 in Propeller 1
I've been working on this design for a while, thought it was time to put it out there and get feedback;

It's an Ethernet module for the Propeller Platform based on the ENC28J60 (Datasheet, Propeller Object);
4799625248_9cdc6447dc.jpg
Full Size

It uses P4..P7 and has a 25Mhz crystal onboard (A lot of ENC28J60 implementations use the Propeller to generate a clock signal which is cheaper, but uses an extra pin). The Interrupt pin is jumper-able to P8, if you'd like to use it.

I've already made a prototype and the circuit is testing well. When Wiznet on the prop is more fully baked, I'll probably also make a Wiznet module, but the ENC28J60 is more mature and can be done as a kit.

Few questions I'm considering;
  • I can make this a fullboard (3.8x2.5), it will be about $5 more expensive, but it will push the Pulse Jack out so shortboards (like El Jugador, the OctoDriver, etc) can stack on top. Either way, stuff can stack below. Is stacking worth the extra $5?
  • Is P4..P7 the right pin assignments?
  • Anything else that should be brought off the ENC28J60?
Any suggestions or feedback is appreciated. I've attached the schematic and layout.

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Comments

  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-07-16 17:21
    @Nick,

    Being able to stack this "under" the El Jugador board would be worthwhile here..

    It would potentially allow the creation of ethernet based games.

    OBC

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  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-07-16 17:45
    That's what I'm thinking, too. I have some ideas on doing El Jugador LIVE using ethernet and a matchmaking server. I should have a first-rev spec for review in a week or so. Not sure how popular it would be, but it's something I think would be really cool.

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-07-16 18:00
    The only software I could find for it in the Obex was a tiny POP3 email client. I can't see a TCP/IP stack running on the Propeller. Will it actually be much use?

    I just did a search and someone was working on TCP/IP at one time, but it seemed to peter out.

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    Post Edited (Leon) : 7/16/2010 6:08:18 PM GMT
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2010-07-16 18:04
    Looks like a very useful add-on to the Propeller Platform!
    Nick McClick said...
    I've been working on this design for a while, thought it was time to put it out there and get feedback;

    It's an Ethernet module for the Propeller Platform based on the ENC28J60 (Datasheet, Propeller Object);
    4799625248_9cdc6447dc.jpg
    Full Size

    It uses P4..P7 and has a 25Mhz crystal onboard (A lot of ENC28J60 implementations use the Propeller to generate a clock signal which is cheaper, but uses an extra pin). The Interrupt pin is jumper-able to P8, if you'd like to use it.

    I've already made a prototype and the circuit is testing well. When Wiznet on the prop is more fully baked, I'll probably also make a Wiznet module, but the ENC28J60 is more mature and can be done as a kit.

    Few questions I'm considering;
    • I can make this a fullboard (3.8x2.5), it will be about $5 more expensive, but it will push the Pulse Jack out so shortboards (like El Jugador, the OctoDriver, etc) can stack on top. Either way, stuff can stack below. Is stacking worth the extra $5?
    • Is P4..P7 the right pin assignments?
    • Anything else that should be brought off the ENC28J60?
    Any suggestions or feedback is appreciated. I've attached the schematic and layout.
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  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2010-07-16 18:06
    Look for Harrison's stack, from the Ybox2

    I find it very useful on the Propeller; I've been using it for a customer's semi-custom board for months, and I have several products coming out shortly using the ENC28J60 with a Prop.
    Leon said...
    The only software I could find for it in the Obex was a tiny POP3 email client. I can't see a TCP/IP stack running on the Propeller. Will it actually be much use?
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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-07-16 18:10
    I bet the PropIRC client would run on this setup.
    There's a TV version I adapted a while back, but I can't place my finger on the thread.

    The only challenge here will be the available memory after Harrison's code is loaded. [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    OBC

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  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2010-07-16 18:12
    Leon,
    There is a TCP/IP stack that runs on the Propeller that's open sourced, initially GPL'd and now improved and rereleased with the MIT license. It began with the YBox2 which can act as a mini-webserver as well as using the time protocol. The YBox2 can update itself over ethernet, do DHCP, even run a version of FemtoBasic using Telnet for console I/O. The stack assumes an ENC28J60, so it should work fine with minimal changes on Nick's system.
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-07-16 18:14
    @Leon - yeah, the ENC28J60 is ready to go. Harrison has done a few demo programs, I've been running the random number generator with AJAX update for a few days now. Follow the link on the OBEX posting to Harrison's website - you'll notice the page title is 'PropTCP'.

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-07-16 18:24
    Thanks. I've got a couple of ENC28J60 chips somewhere, as well as a little module from Olimex that has one on it, with the magnetics. I could put that on one of my Propeller boards.

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  • schillschill Posts: 741
    edited 2010-07-16 18:37
    Nick:

    I also think the idea of a larger board might be good to allow better stacking. Obviously, there are tradeoffs. Maybe we need to return to the days of RJ45 dongles (I'm thinking about the ones required for some PCMCIA-based network cards).

    One thing I would ask you to consider is adding some additional pads (one per trace) somewhere along the traces between P4-P7 and the chip. These would allow the traces coming from P4-P7 to be cut and then the connections could easily be wired to any pins. P4-P7 would just be the "default" pins. There's plenty of room on the board to add these.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-07-16 18:40
    schill said...


    One thing I would ask you to consider is adding some additional pads (one per trace) somewhere along the traces between P4-P7 and the chip. These would allow the traces coming from P4-P7 to be cut and then the connections could easily be wired to any pins. P4-P7 would just be the "default" pins. There's plenty of room on the board to add these.

    Excellent suggestion! Second this!

    OBC

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  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2010-07-16 18:54
    schill's idea is a good one.
    Please add those pads smile.gif
  • schillschill Posts: 741
    edited 2010-07-16 19:05
    I've found some more pads I'd like to add [noparse]:)[/noparse] .

    How about adding a set of pads for a header which duplicates the pins for the RJ45 jack with magnetics? Take a look at the attached picture. I added the pads and traces in yellow (obviously, I did not route the traces correctly). I may not have used all the required connections and the order I have isn't important, but I hope you get the idea.

    This would allow "us" to build our own dongles to extend the jack away from the board. I see this as a "have your cake and eat it too" situation. For configurations that don't need anything stacked on top of the board, the jack is soldered directly. But, to stack on top, we just create a short board (maybe 1x2" or so) with a header on one end and the jack on the other. That way, it could extend out from beneath the stacked board.

    I'm thinking that the headers would be right-angle headers, aligned with the surface of the board rather than perpendicular to it.

    For a permanent connection, a single straight header could be used to solder the dongle directly to the board.

    I'm not sure about possible noise issues, but it will create some versatility in configuration.
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  • mojorizingmojorizing Posts: 249
    edited 2010-07-16 19:15
    How about bring out P10 of the ENC28 to the header so that there is an option to do a hardware reset initiated from the Prop. - a "keep alive" function?

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  • mojorizingmojorizing Posts: 249
    edited 2010-07-16 19:27
    Re: Schill header connection - you'll need to deal with the link/traffic LED circuit using RJ45 connectors that don't have LED's

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  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2010-07-16 19:35
    schill said...

    One thing I would ask you to consider is adding some additional pads (one per trace) somewhere along the traces between P4-P7 and the chip. These would allow the traces coming from P4-P7 to be cut and then the connections could easily be wired to any pins. P4-P7 would just be the "default" pins. There's plenty of room on the board to add these.
    Indeed a great idea.

    Two pads per trace such as a .1" header with the trace connected between them would allow a clean place to cut as well as an easy way to reconnect if necessary. This would also be very useful on the Propeller Platform SD as was suggested before.

    On the RJ45 UTP extender: don't forget to add a ground pin.

    Cheers,
    --Steve

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  • schillschill Posts: 741
    edited 2010-07-16 20:26
    jazzed said...
    Two pads per trace such as a .1" header with the trace connected between them would allow a clean place to cut as well as an easy way to reconnect if necessary. This would also be very useful on the Propeller Platform SD as was suggested before.
    That's exactly what I was originally thinking, but that thought got lost somewhere when I posted.
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-07-16 23:06
    I think I'll extend it to 3.8x 2.5 - so that will offer plenty of room for a second set of pads and connections for your own dongle (and a few holes up there for stress relief, too). It works great as a kit - you can decide when you build it.

    @majorizing - I'll bring it out, unjumpered like how the interrupt is currently done. It would be an 'advanced' setup, but the option would be there.

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  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2010-07-17 02:59
    Nick: You may consider adding provision for 6pin PMod connector. See www.digilentinc.com This is the new expansion connector I will be using (but I will have the 8pin sets) to access these cheap expansion pcbs.

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  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2010-07-17 19:21
    I have the PropNIC, based on the same thing, and I have had no luck whatsoever in getting anything useful out of it. I think that if you want Ethernet, you should go with the WizNet modules as used on the Hydra ethernet card.

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  • simonlsimonl Posts: 866
    edited 2010-07-17 21:41
    @Nick: You could always add two extra 0.1" header strips so this board stacks higher - unless that's > $5!

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  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2010-07-17 23:03
    Microcontrolled said...
    I have the PropNIC, based on the same thing, and I have had no luck whatsoever in getting anything useful out of it. I think that if you want Ethernet, you should go with the WizNet modules as used on the Hydra ethernet card.
    What didn't work exactly? I've never had trouble with ENC28J60 on the OLIMEX boards.

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  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2010-07-17 23:43
    I couldn't download webpage HTML, I couldn't get the demo working, I don't know what my IP, subnet, etc is (I know how to get that now), and just about everything I tried failed.

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  • DestructinatorDestructinator Posts: 34
    edited 2010-08-03 01:31
    Will these boards be available for sale anytime soon? Im not using it for games, but for another project that requires an ethernet/RJ45 connection. I just need some way of connecting the prop to an ethernet connection, and this seems to be the best route . . .

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-08-03 01:38
    Destructinator said...
    Will these boards be available for sale anytime soon? Im not using it for games, but for another project that requires an ethernet/RJ45 connection. I just need some way of connecting the prop to an ethernet connection, and this seems to be the best route . . .


    ... !!! ...

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=927521

    OBC

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  • DestructinatorDestructinator Posts: 34
    edited 2010-08-03 01:49
    Thanks OBC

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