Anyone else put 12v into a prop pin?

turbosupra · 2010-07-11 18:30

I forgot to set up a resistor ladder and put 12v directly into my prop pin # 10.

I can't connect to it now and both voltage regulators are getting very very hot when I supply the first one with 12v?

I'm a little unsure as to how the two are connected? Anyone else experience this? Is just the chip needing replaced or should I scrap all of the components and replace them all?

This is on a prop breadboard.

Leon · 2010-07-11 18:37

I once had a tiny solder splash across the 3.3V regulator which put 9V across the Propeller. I just had to replace the latter. You might have damaged the 3.3V regulator.

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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

Post Edited (Leon) : 7/11/2010 6:45:01 PM GMT

smbaker · 2010-07-11 18:40

Can you remove the prop and verify that the appropriate voltage is being applied to the power pins? That would be the first step in ensuring that nothing else got damaged.

I would guess the prop itself is toast.

turbosupra · 2010-07-11 19:26

I've removed the chip, and threw away both voltage regulators.

Then I put a new LM2940CT and LM2937ET in its place and I can't get less than 5.5v out of them. I tried another LM3937, same thing?

I have no idea what is going on with this now?

Should I just throw the entire thing in the trash and order a new board to build? I have enough gremlins to work out, and don't need damaged component gremlins on top of those.

I have to wonder if my prop plug serial to usb is hosed also?

Mike Green · 2010-07-11 19:44

This sounds much too complicated to sort out on the forum. You should call Parallax Tech Support for assistance. The +12V would likely blow the Prop, but voltage regulators are more robust. It seems strange that the regulators don't work and stranger yet that new ones don't work.

turbosupra · 2010-07-11 20:01

I tried 6v directly into all 3 voltage regulators on a different spot on the board, which I've double checked and they have LM2937ET-3.3 written on them, all of them output 5.5v

Maybe my components were mislabeled from mouser?

Looks like 3.3v regulators are not readily available from Radioshack or something like that [noparse]:([/noparse]

hover1 · 2010-07-11 20:11

Is this a Prop Demo Board or Prop Proto Board.? Could you be more specific? It would help.

Jim

turbosupra said...

This is on a prop breadboard.

Mike Green · 2010-07-11 20:18

You could use LM317 regulators from RadioShack. These are not "low drop out", so they need about 2.5V above the output voltage. Feed the 3.3V one with 6V or more and the 5V one with 7.5V or more and you'll be ok. Obviously, you're not going to run them in tandem (5V to 3.3V). The LM317 datasheet shows you how to figure the resistors you need to set the output voltage.

turbosupra · 2010-07-11 20:21

The one that is not preassembled, this one

P!-Ro · 2010-07-11 21:02

The 3.3v voltage regulator may show 5.5v because it doesn't have a load on it. Either use a resistor across the pins or use a load such as an·LED to find if the voltage will drop to 3.3v. Also check to see if it still gets hot while doing this test; part of the problem may be that the burned out propeller is acting like a short.

James Newman · 2010-07-11 21:06

Unfortunately you may have fried those when trying them in the damaged circuit. Mislabeling seems very very unlikely. Although I suppose it might be possible. I had two magnetic prox switches that had the blue and black wires reversed internally last week. Same part numbers and in the same order as 6 others, and in-bag documentation confirmed wiring... but when I couldn't get 2 to work, I tried in reverse... and viola. Mislabeling seems even more unlikely though, if your talking about the label on the devices themselves. Also, I'm not sure that a 5.5 regulator is available... isn't it 3.3 then 5.0?

That 12v could have hit alot, and could have been fed backwards through alot of components too. I would check each component one at a time personally. If you have a decent meter, check for shorts through atleast the gnd and v+ pins on all chips, might go through each pin. Check the caps for shorts. Check the eeprom, etc. The prop is probably toast.

P!-Ro · 2010-07-11 21:39

I fried the same board myself with a split second connection of 9v on an unprotected 3.3v wire. Everything for me was fine except for the prop itself, so your only problem may be in how you are testing it.

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90 * 2 = Pi

turbosupra · 2010-07-11 21:51

Hi,

I put an LED from the output to ground and the output pin still read 5.1v? This is on a breadboard completely separate from the prop

pi'd said...
The 3.3v voltage regulator may show 5.5v because it doesn't have a load on it. Either use a resistor across the pins or use a load such as an LED to find if the voltage will drop to 3.3v. Also check to see if it still gets hot while doing this test; part of the problem may be that the burned out propeller is acting like a short.

turbosupra · 2010-07-11 21:59

I took a completely separate board and built a 3.3v regulator with an LM317 circuit, it outputs a solid 3.3v.

I then connected my DMM to the location that normally gets 3.3v on the prop board Row J/5, but I did not connect the 317output to the prop board yet.

I connected my DMM black prope to the prop board DC ground and the red probe to the 3.3v location RowJ/5.

I got 2.2v? Now I'm at about 1.64v. Maybe a fried capacitor that is the slowest discharge capacitor in the world?

Mike Green said...
You could use LM317 regulators from RadioShack. These are not "low drop out", so they need about 2.5V above the output voltage. Feed the 3.3V one with 6V or more and the 5V one with 7.5V or more and you'll be ok. Obviously, you're not going to run them in tandem (5V to 3.3V). The LM317 datasheet shows you how to figure the resistors you need to set the output voltage.

turbosupra · 2010-07-11 22:11

Ok, looks like one of the capacitors is holding voltage, I'm unsure as to why though? I've circled which one it is, could the board be damaged and causing this, or is the capacitor damaged and causing this?

It's a 1000uF 6.3v capacitor ... but I can't see it holding a charge this long if it had a proper ground to discharge through, correct?

Desy2820 · 2010-07-11 22:19

I know this is really unlikely, but try a new battery in your meter.· Usually, the meter will give you a low battery warning, but not all meters have this feature.· When the battery gets weak, you will get all sorts of strange readings from it.

Hope this helps.

turbosupra · 2010-07-12 00:07

Well, I totally discharged that capacitor by shorting the leads, and an LM317 and new prop chip later (was too nervous to try the old one) it's working again???

turbosupra · 2010-07-12 01:33

Well, now my code that did work, will not work anymore?

My PUB main keeps looping it appears? Meaning the code in PUB main that is above my repeat loop, will still repeat itself over and over again?

This has really shaken my confidence and I'm second guessing everything now ... should what is in the serial out be there?

PUB Main

  Debug.Start(31,30,0,115200) 'start cog with serial driver
  Debug.Str(string("Debug-output started",13))

  dira[noparse][[/noparse]PulseInputPin] := 0
  ina[noparse][[/noparse]PulseInputPin] := 1
  dira[noparse][[/noparse]OutPutPin] := 1  ' sets the direction of pin 8 to an output (may be redundant)
  outa[noparse][[/noparse]OutPutPin] := 0  ' makes sure that PIN 8 is set to low = 0V to keep the transistor and the relay OFF
  Debug.Str(string("IO-Pin setup finished",13))
  'Debug.Dec(cnt)


  
  UnlockButtonState := DetectFirstLowHighLow
  Pulseonerisingedge := false
  Pulsetworisingedge := false
  Pulsethreerisingedge := false
  
  repeat

   'Debug.Str(string("           Waiting for case statement to be true",13))
      {
     DebugCounter := DebugCounter + 1
     if DebugCounter => 30000
        Debug.Str(string("           Waiting for case statement to be true",13))
        DebugCounter := 0
      }
   case UnlockButtonState ':= ina[noparse][[/noparse]PulseInputPin]


     
         
      DetectFirstLowHighLow :       ' set to a value of 1 in the constants section
      
         If ina[noparse][[/noparse]PulseInputPin] == 1
                        
            Debug.Str(string("PulseInputPin equals 1 for the 1st time",13))

           'waitpeq(%000000, |< 8, 0)
            Debug.Str(string("Waiting for input pin to go low",13))
           
           'waitcnt(cnt + (clkfreq/8))
            'PulseTime1 := cnt
           'UnlockButtonState := DetectSecondLowHighLow       ' tells the CaseExpression to look for a value of 2 next loop
           'Debug.Str(string("PulseInputPin equals 1",13))
            Pulseonerisingedge := true
            Debug.Str(string("Pulseonerisingedge equals true",13))
           
         elseif ina[noparse][[/noparse]PulseInputPin] == 0 and Pulseonerisingedge == true

            PulseTime1 := cnt
            UnlockButtonState := DetectSecondLowHighLow
            Debug.Str(string("PulseInputPin equals 0, going to DetectSecond",13))

         
          

      DetectSecondLowHighLow :       ' set to a value of 2 in the constants section 
    
         If (PulseTime1 + 160_000_000) => cnt
         
            If ina[noparse][[/noparse]PulseInputPin] == 1
                       
               Debug.Str(string("PulseInputPin equals 1 for a 2nd time",13))

               'waitpeq(%000000, |< 8, 0)
               Debug.Str(string("Waiting for input pin to go low",13))
                                 
               'waitcnt(cnt + (clkfreq/8))
               'PulseTime2 := cnt
               'UnlockButtonState := DetectThirdLowHighLow       ' tells the CaseExpression to look for a value of 2 next loop
               'Debug.Str(string("PulseInputPin equals 1 and UnlockButtonState equals 3",13))
               Pulsetworisingedge := true
               Debug.Str(string("Pulsetworisingedge equals true",13))

            elseif ina[noparse][[/noparse]PulseInputPin] == 0 and Pulsetworisingedge == true

               PulseTime2 := cnt
               UnlockButtonState := DetectThirdLowHighLow
               Debug.Str(string("PulseInputPin equals 0, going to DetectThird",13))   
                                 
         Else 
            UnlockButtonState := DetectFirstLowHighLow
            Debug.Str(string("**** Resetting because of PulseTime2 + clkfreq criteria",13))
            Pulseonerisingedge := false
          


      DetectThirdLowHighLow :       ' set to a value of 3 in the constants section
      
         If (PulseTime2 + 160_000_000) => cnt
         
            If ina[noparse][[/noparse]PulseInputPin] == 1 
                       
               
               Debug.Str(string("PulseInputPin equals 1 for a 3rd time",13))

               'waitpeq(%000000, |< 8, 0)
               'Debug.Str(string("Waiting for input pin to go low",13))
           
               'waitcnt(cnt + (clkfreq/8))
               'PulseTime3 := cnt
               'UnlockButtonState := SendOutputSignal       ' tells the CaseExpression to look for a value of 2 next loop
               'Debug.Str(string("PulseInputPin equals 1 and UnlockButtonState equals 4",13))

               Pulsethreerisingedge := true
               Debug.Str(string("Pulsethreerisingedge equals true",13))

            elseif ina[noparse][[/noparse]PulseInputPin] == 0 and Pulsethreerisingedge == true

               PulseTime3 := cnt
               UnlockButtonState := SendOutputSignal
               Debug.Str(string("PulseInputPin equals 0, going to Send Output Signal",13))   
                  

         Else 
            UnlockButtonState := DetectFirstLowHighLow
            Debug.Str(string("**** Resetting because of PulseTime3 + clkfreq criteria",13))
            Pulseonerisingedge := false
            Pulsetworisingedge := false 

         
            

      SendOutputSignal:       ' set to a value of 4 in the constants section
         Debug.Str(string("Outputting to pin",13))
         outa[noparse][[/noparse]OutPutPin] := 1
         WaitCnt((ClkFreq * 2) + cnt) ' leave output pin set to high for 2 full seconds
         Debug.Str(string("Done outputting to pin",13))
         outa[noparse][[/noparse]OutPutPin] := 0
         Pulseonerisingedge := false
         Pulsetworisingedge := false
         Pulsethreerisingedge := false
         UnlockButtonState := DetectFirstLowHighLow                  ' tells the CaseExpression to look for a value of 1 next loop

Here is what serial out looks like?

Cluso99 · 2010-07-12 02:56

Just a word of warning to the unwary... Different voltage rgulators have different pinouts :-( (no standards)

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Sapieha · 2010-07-12 05:58

Hi turbosupra.

If You fried REG's by 12V You need change all Electrolitic/Tantalum capacitors to ---- Most of them are fried to.

regards

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Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
Don't guess - ask instead.
If you don't ask you won't know.
If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.

Sapieha

turbosupra · 2010-07-12 10:24

Looks like there are 2 caps? What about the crystal?

I just loaded my code to my prop demo board just to see how it acted and the code inside PUB main, before the repeat loop only executes once.

Sapieha said...
Hi turbosupra.

If You fried REG's by 12V You need change all Electrolitic/Tantalum capacitors to ---- Most of them are fried to.

regards

Leon · 2010-07-12 10:35

Whether capacitors have been affected depends on their voltage ratings. The crystal won't have been damaged.

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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

turbosupra · 2010-07-12 13:29

The capacitors say 1000uf at 6.3v

Leon said...
Whether capacitors have been affected depends on their voltage ratings. The crystal won't have been damaged.

Leon · 2010-07-12 13:34

They might have been damaged, then. You didn't need to use such large values.

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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

turbosupra · 2010-07-12 15:23

That's actually what comes with the kit?

Leon said...
They might have been damaged, then. You didn't need to use such large values.

turbosupra · 2010-07-12 17:40

An update, in case someone else finds this, I think it may be due to a voltage fluctuation from the lm317, it wasn't keeping a consistent 3.3v, it was dropping down to around 2.8 (on my DMM) which means an oscope may show lower drops, and maybe it was resetting?

I'll have concrete results later today or tomorrow

P!-Ro · 2010-07-12 18:55

You should be able to use a larger capacitor to help even the voltage. I believe the prop can still run at 2.6v.

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90 * 2 = Pi

hover1 · 2010-07-12 20:13

The fact that the regulation is dropping .5 volts, indicates there is still a problem. Bad regulator, a short causing the regulator to overheat, a problem with the 5.0 volt regulator feeding the LM317? These need to be fixed first before throwing a capacitor at it.

Jim

pi'd said...
You should be able to use a larger capacitor to help even the voltage. I believe the prop can still run at 2.6v.

Leon · 2010-07-12 20:43

it might be oscillating if the capacitor on the output isn't close to the leads, or is the wrong value.

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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

PJAllen · 2010-07-13 12:57

Troubleshooting by committee... never works.

turbosupra · 2010-07-13 12:59

I'm going to replace the capacitors and voltage regulators entirely if I have the time tonight

hover1 said...
The fact that the regulation is dropping .5 volts, indicates there is still a problem. Bad regulator, a short causing the regulator to overheat, a problem with the 5.0 volt regulator feeding the LM317? These need to be fixed first before throwing a capacitor at it.

Jim

Leon said...
it might be oscillating if the capacitor on the output isn't close to the leads, or is the wrong value.

Anyone else put 12v into a prop pin?

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