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Expo Attendies (UPENE, UPEC, UPEW) - We need your help with this. — Parallax Forums

Expo Attendies (UPENE, UPEC, UPEW) - We need your help with this.

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
edited 2010-05-19 02:01 in Propeller 1
Gang,

Our final attendee tally for UPEC was 94. We had around 130 registered.

We need your help.

While we don't charge for attendance, our RSVP system is designed to give our team (and sponsors) an idea
of how to budget for these expos. A tricky part is the food. In the case of an expo location which requires
us to order a month ahead of time, we have to be able to count on our numbers. (within reasonable limits.)

When I pre-order food for a group of people, those small local businesses are counting on our order. Many times
they are ordering supplies ahead, as well as making sure that extra staff are ready to swing into action.
We can always adjust a "little" without causing a problem, but like any good guest, we are looking to
keep our word and do what we said we would do.

In fairness, several folks did contact me and let me know they could not arrive, but not 35 of you.
We need your help by only registering for an expo you are fairly certain you will be able to realistically attend.
(If something changes, then be a good guest and let me know ahead of time if possible.)

We'll do our part by continuing to find ways to improve your expo experience.
We've even hashed out some additional stuff on audio, etc which will make our game even more impressive
by the next expo. Our team, Bryan, Rebekah, Matt, and myself are committed to this amazing project.

Thanks guys! I'm already looking forward to UPEW!

OBC

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Comments

  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2010-05-17 21:19
    OBC;

    One thought would be to do what we've been forced to do on some company outings (actually at the last three employers spanning 20 years) for the same reasons:

    Registration involves a fee. If you don't show, you don't get the fee back, so sorry.

    If you cancel far enough ahead of time, no problem, full refund. (lenght of time varied based on event requirements)

    If you show up, you get the registration back in some way shape or form. In some cases, cash. In others it was drink tickets (cash bar, tickets good as cash) or some other way of covering what otherwise would be an employee expense.

    There are lots of "gotchas" for this particular situation. Dealing with payments at registration, refunds for those who cancel on time, and how to give the value back (cash, goods, raffle tickets or what).

    Personally, I could see "requiring" registrants to buy X dollars worth of raffle tickets for the Red Cross. When you show up, you can enter them. If you don't show up, you just made a donation, either to the Red Cross, or to help offset the expense of waisted food.

    Jeff, I can see you making faces at me, and understand the complications and negative implications. What I'm really hoping for is that these thoughts help trigger a more workable solution.

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-05-17 21:27
    Actually, our team has talked at length along these lines..

    We've got some ideas which should help, but I thought I'd appeal to our attendees to do their part. [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    (BTW, we were able to re-purpose about 90% of all of the leftovers, so very little was wasted. [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    OBC

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  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2010-05-17 21:27
    I broke this out to a separate reply on purpose:

    When we were collectively talking about that at the end of the expo, the fact that this was a full 25% plus didn't register.· That high of a no show is rediculous on so many levels.· The amount of food waisted, the lack of anticiapted contacts for vendors, etc.

    That's right folks 1/4 of you signed up for a free to you event, that was not free to the sponsors and vendor participants and didn't show up!

    For those of us who find these Expos of value, we need to apply peer pressure to see that this doesn't happen in the future.· If sponsors/vendors start to see this type of thing as a pattern, they will think twice about coming, or committing money to sponser these events.

    A certain amount of "no shows" are expected.· 25% is just plain rude.

    There is a difficult balance to be had.· I'm quite certain the organizers don't want to discourage anyone from signing up, but by signing up "just in case I can go" is not fair to the sponsors, and in some cases also would not be fair to others who would like to go, but by the time they "know" that could attend, the expo is "full up".

    Let's find a way to make this work for everyone.


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  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2010-05-17 21:31
    Backing off of "ranting mode", how about two other possibilities:

    A category of registration that says "I want to go, but may not make it". This category gets you a ticket, but not some of the "freebies" (e.g. meals and/or gift bags, etc.).

    Alternately, have the ability to show up "un registered" with the same caviats, no freebies.

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  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2010-05-17 21:33
    Oldbitcollector said...


    (BTW, we were able to re-purpose about 90% of all of the leftovers, so very little was wasted. [noparse]:)[/noparse]



    There was at least one birthday party with unexpected 'zas..., and they were most grateful!

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  • sylvie369sylvie369 Posts: 1,622
    edited 2010-05-17 21:47
    I wasn't aware that we were going to be fed, and was surprised and pleased. However, not having known that in advance, I might have registered even if I'd thought there was a fair chance I wouldn't have made it. Now I know better, and yes, of course I will not register for an expo unless I'm genuinely planning to attend. I also was almost a no-show due to car problems, as I mentioned in an earlier thread. I wouldn't have been able to warn you too much in advance (about a week) about my non-attendance, but if something like that comes up I will make a point to inform you/the organizers.

    I would not be at all averse to paying a small attendance fee, and I think that might be a viable way to keep the no-show problem down. If you had charged me something like $10 to attend, I would have still most certainly attended, and would have been very pleased at what I'd gotten for my money. If it had been (say) $30 I'd still have·been pleased, though that might be enough to make them·think twice about attending in some situations. Of course collecting a registration fee opens all sorts of other issues for the organizers, and you'd have to balance whether the improvement in ability to plan was worth the extra hassle.

    UPEC was my first expo, and I really want to thank you, OBC, for the great job that you did. And of course Parallax was wonderful as well, as were the other attendees. I'm quite glad that I attended.

    You might consider adding a forum here for Expo presentations. The idea would be that presenters could upload (or link to?) their materials (handouts, Powerpoints, photos/videos). I would like to see (Gadget Gangster) Nick's materials again, for example.

    Post Edited (sylvie369) : 5/17/2010 9:53:53 PM GMT
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2010-05-17 21:48
    I was guilty of this last year... twice. Obviously I care about the expos and fully intended to go... but at the last minute I ran into issues that I just couldn't get away from... twice. I never gave the issue of food prep a serious thought. I have held similar meetings... but I never fed people for free and I didn't ship free products across a continent.

    Rich
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2010-05-17 22:03
    I don't get cranky very often.

    I agree with OBC's approach and some of John/Rich's suggestions. If we knew that 25% wouldn't turn out we could have saved money on the unit cost/person and we could have provided those who attended with further benefits. Parallax's cost/person includes expense (accounting term) for those who don't attend, so I'm even more sensitive to this than OBC. These costs are in food, hardware packages, etc.

    I can truthfully say that we're a generous company, to our team and customers. To do this we request a similar commitment from people who click on the "please register me" button.

    A further problem is that a non-attendee has locked a position that somebody else may desire.

    I recognize that situations happen and people are unable to attend, but they should use the cancellation process. Having been through this with our BASIC Stamp Educator's Courses, I could tell you that a registration with fee solved the problem. Not sure what to do here - it's up to OBC.

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  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,887
    edited 2010-05-17 22:18
    I'm also involved a bit in conference planning and for the things that involve a lot of cost, we've moved from free to some minimal cost just to get a realistic idea of the attendence...

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  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2010-05-17 22:23
    Hi Ken Gracey (Parallax).

    You said.
    "Not sure what to do here".

    Not Register that ones to NEXT UPE's

    Regards

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  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2010-05-17 22:26
    I was also very concerned that if I did anything to promote the meeting locally, we would end up out of space and turning people away at the door. And we would have really super Propeller people trying to find themselves in a mob of on-lookers.

    There is no perfect mix. And we will never have a meeting that cannot be improved. As it was, every seat in the lecture area was full. The demo area was full and everyone that came had something to offer, a Propeller tale to tell and the most fascinating array of of techno-life histories.

    A remarkable experience for everyone.

    Rich
  • Roy ElthamRoy Eltham Posts: 3,000
    edited 2010-05-17 22:39
    When I registered for UPEW, I was actually surprised that it was free.

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  • badpacketbadpacket Posts: 4
    edited 2010-05-17 23:00
    I like Sapieha's idea. I just tried to register for the West Coast event and it is already full. I asked about some sort of Waiting List for cancellations, I could make the drive on short notice.

    Not sure about rjo_, don't promote the event because newbies would get in the way of Prop-gurus?
    OK, thats starting to sound like more a party for a high-school clique than an event to publicize and evangelize a commercial product.

    BTW, if you have barely enough open spots for the existing Propheads, then this isn't really about increasing exposure of the product to new people. I guess thats why this is the 'Unofficial" event? I don't see an 'Official' event listed on the main website for 2010, so aside from Maker Faire in San Mateo, there is not much chance for the average hobbyist or engineer to get to any hands-on or face time with a real person?

    I've helped run these sorts of things in the past, and the vendors fee usually helps cover the food and part of the space rental.
    If the goal is to help vendors sell their products primarily, then you are probably on the right track.
    If the goal is to increase interest among hobbyists and curious engineers, with an eye towards sales, then this seem pretty backwards.
    You need the maximum number of interested parties actually able to get into the venue. A free slice of pizza or a soda is nice, but thats not why I am driving 14o miles from the Bay Area...
    Bring that stuff in and sell it at cost, that way no complaints from vendors. Extra food is a pretty common thing at these types of events, check with the local foodbank or churches in the area for extra's. This should be pretty small expense as most of it has been covered by sales.
    If there are free-bees being given away, then give everyone a ticket and pick numbers. Heck, have Prop running some app that keeps track of the numbers picked and allow people to go up and check their numbers. A Prop, little cell camera, character recognition, flash you card under the camera and it tells you if its been picked, yet.

    Just my $0.02 worth having helped run some of these things. It just depends on what path you are looking to take, bringing the faithful together, or bringing others into... enlightenment. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2010-05-17 23:20
    OBC will be increasing the UPEW attendees limit to 200 people in the next day, BTW.

    Sapieha has one idea that may work, especially if OBC can be the bad guy!

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  • sailman58sailman58 Posts: 162
    edited 2010-05-17 23:33
    When I signed up for UPEC, had no idea that I would be undergoing surgery a month ago, nor did I expect that my relationship would blossom to the point that I would become a regular commuter between Maryland and Florida running up and down I-95.

    Jeff, did you receive my cancellation? I know that I wrote to you, but my name was still on the list the last time I checked.

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2010-05-17 23:44
    sailman58 said...

    Jeff, did you receive my cancellation? I know that I wrote to you, but my name was still on the list the last time I checked.

    Ron, I did indeed! And some others.. Just trying to train the rest of our group. [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    OBC

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  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2010-05-17 23:44
    sailman58 said...
    nor did I expect that my relationship would blossom to the point that I would become a regular commuter between Maryland and Florida running up and down I-95.

    <disclaimer>
    Um, it's been a long week at work today, so I can't take responsibility for a few sarcastic (but hopefully humorous) comments. This one I really can't help, so my apologies to your significant other...
    </disclaimer>

    Careful there Sailman! If you are already giving up the prop expo for the relationship, you should probably start selling off your parts, tools, equipment, etc. You REALLY need to set the tone early on! Once you start down the road of self sacrifice, it is a dangerous and slippery slope!

    On the other hand, I had my wife tail along. She watched and pretended to listen to two of the presentations but later said "I didn't understand anything they were talking about."

    The part I really can't figure out, is she said she had a good time... She also went to the ATM to get more money for more "stuff". (Am I a luck guy or what!)

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  • Chris_DChris_D Posts: 305
    edited 2010-05-18 00:09
    Last year I had hoped to make it to the event in Ohio and had to cancel about a week before the event.· All it takes is 20 seconds to send an email - OBC even thanked me for letting him know, so don't worry about upsetting anyone if you need to cancel.

    Regarding a fee for the expo, in my opinion it would be a good idea.· The revenues would help cover the costs of running such an event.· But even with the fee, it is still proper to·communicate·your cancellation·- it was upsetting to see all that food there and not enough people to eat it.· I tried to eat it all but could not do it - I ate so much, I had to buy XXL shirts instead of the usual XL!

    The fee for these·events doesn't need to be much, just enough to make people think twice before hitting that registration button.· I am pretty sure everyone that went would say it was a great value at the price of free and I bet they would say the same thing if the price was 10 or 20 dollars.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    Chris
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2010-05-18 00:22
    I have talked to my corporate masters about attending UPEW next year, and they're in favor so I will probably be signing up. (This year it was just impossible. Since none of the expos seem all that close to Louisiana I might as well go to the one where I can see the Parallax facility and meet all the remarkable people who make this stuff possible.) I would have no problem with a non-refundable signup fee; I imagine such a fee would be considerably lower than the cost of transportation and lodging should a true emergency prevent attendance. It's a pretty standard arrangement in other venues. My wife does seriously hardcore birding tours, and those always have a (hefty) nonrefundable retainer. But that's necessary when you're hiring a world-class raptor expert and the entire tour is maybe 15 people and they are making arrangements for food, lodging, and transportation in Panama or Kenya.
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-05-18 00:25
    @sylvie - Normally I put up a post with my preso before the expo, but I ran out of time. I'll get it up in the next few days and put a link the forums.

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  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2010-05-18 01:23
    I think $20 is not unreasonable considering all the free stuff (hardware, food, etc).

    Bean

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  • tmaynardtmaynard Posts: 27
    edited 2010-05-18 01:24
    I consider myself a responsible attendee -- I don't sign up unless I'm pretty sure I'm going to attend. This was my first UPE and I'm definitely going to another -- possibly multiple events/year. UPEC exceeded my expectations by a wide margin. I never expected food/drink. I confess I was blown away by the whole event.

    My idea: free admission (as now) and pay for meals with some kind of additional "ticket." There was a huge (ginormous) amount of uneaten food at UPEC. I tried my best. but I couldn't begin to reduce the pile of leftover food.

    Option 1: [noparse][[/noparse] ] I'm planning to attend
    Option 2: [noparse][[/noparse] ] I'd like to have lunch/dinner ($5.00) <or whatever is reasonable>

    Any uncollected giveaways could certainly go back to Parallax, thus losing only the cost of assembly/packing. Of course, there's still the problem of folks checking both options and then not showing up ... but at least the money is paid up front. And meal tickets would be necessary to gain admittance to the dining area.

    I certainly wouldn't object to that scenario, and I would willingly pay up front for my meals. Or, opt to dine in a local eatery instead. Either way, it seems to benefit the community at large, and smooth the overall operation at least a bit.

    Tom.
  • sylvie369sylvie369 Posts: 1,622
    edited 2010-05-18 01:34
    Nick McClick said...
    @sylvie - Normally I put up a post with my preso before the expo, but I ran out of time. I'll get it up in the next few days and put a link the forums.

    Thanks. I really enjoyed your presentation.

    Paul
  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2010-05-18 01:36
    I think that the best way to keep this from happening is to have them pay $10-$20 in advance which would be given back if the person showed up or canceled 1-1 1/2 months in advance, but would be put toward the expo if the person did not show up. This would keep it free but also make people show up at the same time. I would like to keep this expo free, as it encourages prop newbies and others to show up that usually would not.

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  • John AbshierJohn Abshier Posts: 1,116
    edited 2010-05-18 01:59
    I thought about the number of badges on the table as I drove back to my motel. If people have to put some money on the line, they will be less likely to sign up unless they are going to attend.

    John Abshier
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2010-05-18 02:43
    I'll speak up as one who didn't attend UPEC. I decided not to go about two months ago, and so put it out of my mind. I didn't get any mass reminder emails, so I assume either a)I didn't sign up or b)there weren't any mass emails. If it's the latter then I'm sorry I didn't deregister. Mass emails would help me remember that I signed up, and perhaps as a reminder to deregister.

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  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-05-18 03:01
    @Sylvie - I just put the presentation up on the Gadget Gangster facebook page - it's right here. I also cleaned it up slightly from the original and added a few slides.

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  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-05-18 03:11
    I would have no problem forking over a non-refundable fee to register for these conferences. What you get in return so far exceeds any fee charged, that it would be unseemly to complain. $20, $30, $40: not a big deal, even if I can't attend at the last minute. Heck, the hotel and travel costs way more than that! But 30 times that, or more? Yes, that is a big deal for the sponsors to cover the very real cost of no-shows.

    For years, I'd been involved with a local running race, which charged a non-refundable fee for entry -- and more if you waited until the day of the race to register. Break a leg and can't run? Lo siento mucho, but no refund! Moreover, day-of-race registrants were not guaranteed to receive a shirt on race day, although we did mail them out to finishers who had to wait, and they did get beer and bagels upon finishing. There's nothing wrong with a business model like this. It simply recognizes and deals effectively with the frailties of human nature and protects the sponsors from soaring costs.

    -Phil
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2010-05-18 03:30
    There is no perfect solution. At the end of the day, Oldbit has to decide what he wants to do. This is an important topic. While $20 dollars is no big deal for the conferences as they currently are configured, it will have a definite impact on future meetings in unintended consequences. To make meetings like this a mass event, the price point is highly critical. Oldbit likes it the way it is... but the City Fathers of Ottawa would like to attract thousands of people in the future and are interested in working hard and spending their own money to do so[noparse]:)[/noparse] They have been waiting for something like this for a long time... and are perfectly capable of jumping on it and pumping it up.

    Just a thought[noparse]:)[/noparse]
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-05-18 03:33
    BTW, even with a regstration fee, there's nothing wrong with discounts for bona fide students. smile.gif

    -Phil
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