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X-Band angle — Parallax Forums

X-Band angle

computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
edited 2010-05-01 07:12 in Accessories
Hello everyone,

I am wanting to limit the angle that the xband can sense.
At the moment it is acting something like this:

attachment.php?attachmentid=69628

I wan't it to be like this:

attachment.php?attachmentid=69629

(Sorry for the poor illustrations)

I was thinking lead sheeting on five sides of it, but that might be a bit impractical. turn.gif

Any ideas?



Thank you smile.gif

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Comments

  • computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
    edited 2010-04-27 11:08
    Any ideas?

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  • sam_sam_samsam_sam_sam Posts: 2,286
    edited 2010-04-27 11:51
    I want to do the same thing any· idea.gifs

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    ·Now wanting to learn Spin· Thanks for any·idea.gif·that you may have and all of your time finding them smile.gif

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    Sam
  • computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
    edited 2010-04-27 12:20
    Maybe a wire cage around the majority of the device and have it connected to GND.
    Would this block the signal?

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  • kf4ixmkf4ixm Posts: 529
    edited 2010-04-27 12:30
    Im not sure about these modules as i've not played with them, but i would think that you could use a screen type material in a circular configuration connected to the ground of the radiating antenna to focus the beam of energy. as far as the measurements of the screen, i would make sure the dimentions (radius and length)·are exact multiples of the generated wavelength, (for 10.525 GHz would be 1.1 inches or 2.8 cm).

    Post Edited (kf4ixm) : 4/27/2010 12:38:04 PM GMT
  • computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
    edited 2010-04-27 12:43
    @kf4ixm

    Something like the attached drawing, with the X-Band module behind it?

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  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-04-27 12:59
    Why would that "work"?
  • kf4ixmkf4ixm Posts: 529
    edited 2010-04-27 13:02
    @CG
    Actually, if im looking at this right, that design would actually block the signal. from looking at the module pdf doc, it looks like there are four radiating elements on the module, the four squares near each corner. i would try taking the screen, rolling it up like a sheet of paper into a circle (think of a pringles can), a wavelength multiple bigger radius than the antenna area, and a couple multiples in length. Don't laught at my quickie picture, [noparse]:)[/noparse] Being that the elements are square, you could use either a circular pattern or a square pattern.

    attachment.php?attachmentid=69805

    Post Edited (kf4ixm) : 4/27/2010 1:09:19 PM GMT
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  • computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
    edited 2010-04-27 13:13
    Ahh... I think I get what you are saying. Will try that in the morning.


    Thank you kf4ixm smile.gif

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  • computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
    edited 2010-04-28 10:22
    The "cantenna" idea from kf4ixm works a treat.

    It still detects slight movement just to the side of the module, but only like 1 cycle.

    I have attached a few photos of my test setup. The Module is held in there with anti-static foam.

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  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-04-28 12:56
    Where's the beef?· "Works a treat" is hardly quantifiable.· What's gained, what's lost?

    N.B. -- "Anti-static foam" is conductive.
  • computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
    edited 2010-04-28 13:26
    I ate the beef. lol

    Gained: The signal is directed.
    Lost: From what I can see there is no loss in signal strength (range) or anything else for that matter.

    I have not had any problems with antistatic foam conducting low voltages in the past. I certainly wouldn't have anything > 12V in contact with it.
    It was the only thing that I had to hold the Module in the can.

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  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-04-28 23:13
    Would a plastic canister suffice?· How about paperboard, a cereal box?

    Well, since it's all you had, I guess that's OK.· Afterall, we do·live in challenging times.
  • computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
    edited 2010-04-28 23:18
    Metal is required. Plastic has no effect on the signal, neither does cardboard.

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  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-04-29 00:43
    Blarney.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-04-29 03:28
    PJ,

    I think you meant "blimey", a feigned (in your case, obviously) exclamation of surprise, not "blarney", the Irish gift of gab. And what's with your mostly content-free posts lately?

    -Phil

    Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 4/29/2010 3:35:38 AM GMT
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2010-04-29 10:44
    Try a Pringles container.
  • computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
    edited 2010-04-29 11:32
    They work well too. I have used a pringles can and a larger soup can with WiFi before and have had great results.

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  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-04-29 13:05
    Claims, claims, claims, and more claims; empirical, anecdotal, fertilizer.·
    All I've asked, content-stokedly, is: where's the data, where's the science?·

    It's the "audio sensor" with·the ADC on the output of (essentially) a comparator, all over again.

    And I did mean blarney --
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Blarney stone, a stone in Blarney Castle, near Cork, Ireland, held to bestow skill in flattery on those who kiss it
    Date: 1784
    1 : skillful flattery : blandishment
    2 : nonsense, humbug
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-04-29 14:43
    On the contrary, I think the OP has not only solved his stated problem but has made a nice contribution to the forum by sharing that solution -- all the while deftly (and patiently) parrying a volley of snide commentary.

    -Phil

    Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 4/29/2010 3:17:23 PM GMT
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-04-29 16:07
    Snide commentary?· Bullocks.· It's called skepticism.

    Oh,... lol.
  • computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
    edited 2010-04-30 01:40
    PJ, I would have to agree with Phil Pilgrim on this one. I have stated a problem, been informed of a possible solution and then upon trying the solution had the desired outcome.

    Not all problems in life have to be proven with mathematics and tabulated results.

    I too would classify your replies as "Snide commentary".

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  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-04-30 02:44
    CG,

    You and Phil and I don't care who else can call names till the cows come home.

    As long as you are happy then you're happy, I guess.· I don't care.

    There's science and there's religion.· If there is/are no data, no "mathematics or tabulated results" as you so proudly and freely acknowledge,·then it's not science.

    Electronics isn't a faith system.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-04-30 03:00
    Sorry, PJ, but you're just being pedantic. Your supposed (and false) dichotomy between reams of experimental data and mere faith ignores a wide and entirely legitimate spectrum of both qualitative and quantitative observations. The OP made such observations and was satisfied thereby that the improvements he made in the detection angle were adequate for his needs. Such a problem-realized/problem-solved scenario hardly requires multiple double-blind experiments and chi square statistical tests to be considered useful.

    -Phil
  • Shawn LoweShawn Lowe Posts: 635
    edited 2010-04-30 03:04
    Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) said...
    Sorry, PJ, but you're just being pedantic. Your supposed (and false) dichotomy between reams of experimental data and mere faith ignores a wide and entirely legitimate spectrum of both qualitative and quantitative observations. The OP made such observations and was satisfied thereby that the improvements he made in the detection angle were adequate for his needs. Such a problem-realized/problem-solved scenario hardly requires multiple double-blind experiments and chi square statistical tests to be considered useful.

    -Phil
    Well said Phil.

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    Shawn Lowe


    When all else fails.....procrastinate!
  • kf4ixmkf4ixm Posts: 529
    edited 2010-04-30 03:07
    Data?lol.gif
    Ok, I'll bite...

    Well, look up the term waveguide as related to rf. there's enough data and calculations associated with antenna design and waveguide properties to make your kidney's bleed if you care to research the mathmatics. Simply put, an rf signal can be guided and even amplified through the use of a carefully designed radiating element, or in this case, a properly designed groundplane, which acts as a mirror for rf. (like the outer elements of a yagi antenna or a quad)

    The only data that's needed in this problem is the wavelength of the rf energy, which, as stated, is 1.1 inches for the 10.525mhz. these measurements are crucial for properly propagating rf into a directional beam of energy into a space, where if not properly designed will induce SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) of higher that 1:2 or even higher, 1:1 being an optimal antenna, back into the transmitter and eventually cause it to overheat and fail, especially at high power outputs. But i don't believe this this will be much of an issue for these modules.

    Yes, i am a Ham, i've designed and built many antennas both for transmitting and recieving.

    Post Edited (kf4ixm) : 4/30/2010 3:14:02 AM GMT
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-04-30 03:14
    Hey, that's cute.·

    I worked·with I-J band travelling wave tubes for 8 years.· I know a thing or two about waveguides, VSWR, return loss, insertion loss, power in, power out, and BS rolls downhill.· I've requested information, "data", none has been presented because there isn't any.·

    Just Believe!
  • kf4ixmkf4ixm Posts: 529
    edited 2010-04-30 03:20
    @PJ
    Then how about actually HELPING someone with questions they have rather than degrading them for trying something or giving unrelated opinions about the approach they're taking. If you have that much experience, then you were qualified to give CG an answer to help him with his project, but instead, you didn't. what "data" do you require? you sound like you already know EVERYTHING!
  • kf4ixmkf4ixm Posts: 529
    edited 2010-04-30 03:23
    And·IF you knew ANYTHING about RF, you wouldn't even ask a question like this.
    PJ Allen said...
    Would a plastic canister suffice?· How about paperboard, a cereal box?

  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-04-30 03:32
    Who requires reams?· Talk about a false dichotomy.

    There's no support for the claim other than a professed result achieved.· Not because I say so, the OP says so.· Period.· Fine.· Gosh, am I ever sorry to have disturbed your little camp meeting.· I think this is where you say a prayer, pass the offering plate and sing a closing hymn.·

    OK?

    I haven't denigrated anyone.· Someone asks a question and I ask a question in return and I'm a bad guy?· Well, fine, so be it; if I'm a bad guy then make the most of it.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2010-04-30 03:34
    Mass hysteria and the madness of crowds, I'll tell you.
    Somehow I think I'm not going to get a free x-band detector.
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