mpark: No, you cannot remove the pink portions of the tracks. Try and place a ground plane around the xtal traces, which means moving the tracks adjacent to the power/ground tracks.
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mpark said...
Hmmm. Apparently I'm not frying PLLs left and right. I replaced the crystals on two of my bad boards with 6.25MHz Henning specials and they both work fine now.
Wow, I was right for a change [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Cluso99, I was just trying to see if I understood Sapieha correctly. Hopefully he'll chime in, but if anyone else wants to explain what he meant by "klear with knife spaces between via's to XTal and other traces" I'm all ears.
I mean not pink part You mark but between traces and via to Xtal.
BUT If You have possibility clear space around via after You solder XTal.
As space You have are very small it can have some trash after soldering that can be problem.
Not worry It is not offense for me -- Else I have be not mentioned it.
But in future think always have clear space in that positions to skip problems
Regards
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty. For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer. Don't guess - ask instead. If you don't ask you won't know. If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Congrats on apparently tracking down the culprit.· Keep us updated·if anything new...ahem...crystalizes.· Assuming that the PLLs were not being fried (which apparently they weren't), we still learned a lot from the thread in terms of layout principles.· You might want to add an update after the second line of your·first post in case·readers don't make it all the way through the thread.
Also on the subject of layout, is the link that ElectricAye provided (propeller.wikispaces.com/pcbdesign)·basically your compilation?· There seems to be a lot of good information there.· Thanks.· I was trying to find a way to get to it from the main page, but couldn't find one (no backlinks or whatever).· Maybe·a link·could be added under hardware or somewhere else appropriate.·
Phil, I did with no effect. For whatever reason, this crystal either works or doesn't in my circuit.
JRetSapDoog, yes, I compiled that wiki page. Looks like I get to add my own experiences now. I haven't raised the visibility of the page because it's still a work in progress.
mpark: Did I send you the 13.5MHz xtal ? (I only added them to later boards). If so, try it with leads left long. You can insert the xtal for a temporary test with pressure on the leads (by mechanically bending the leads, not fingers, etc) without soldering.
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I have used both the 5Mhz and 10Mhz watch-style crystals without any problems in commercial products, so they work. Mind you though Cluso99 has brought it up about the flux being conductive, this is a point I have labored as well in this forum though not in this thread.
Here is a tip for the day: Just because you replace a part and then the unit works does not mean that the part was faulty. Triple check by putting the crystal back in again as it may have been some flux that was disturbed.
Peter, your tip was right on. I put the original watch crystals back in and they work. I then went back to the other bad boards and used my soldering iron to burn off any flux or other crud between the crystal pads and they all came back to life.
Edit: I believe Sapieha deserves credit for the diagnosis. Thanks, Sapieha!
Comments
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
My Prop Products:· http://www.rayslogic.com/Propeller/Products/Products.htm
Sapieha, I mean no offense!
Again, thanks all who've replied.
I mean not pink part You mark but between traces and via to Xtal.
BUT If You have possibility clear space around via after You solder XTal.
As space You have are very small it can have some trash after soldering that can be problem.
Not worry It is not offense for me -- Else I have be not mentioned it.
But in future think always have clear space in that positions to skip problems
Regards
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
Don't guess - ask instead.
If you don't ask you won't know.
If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Sapieha
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Also on the subject of layout, is the link that ElectricAye provided (propeller.wikispaces.com/pcbdesign)·basically your compilation?· There seems to be a lot of good information there.· Thanks.· I was trying to find a way to get to it from the main page, but couldn't find one (no backlinks or whatever).· Maybe·a link·could be added under hardware or somewhere else appropriate.·
Have you tried drive settings other than XTAL1 with your 10 MHz crystals?
-Phil
JRetSapDoog, yes, I compiled that wiki page. Looks like I get to add my own experiences now. I haven't raised the visibility of the page because it's still a work in progress.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
I have used both the 5Mhz and 10Mhz watch-style crystals without any problems in commercial products, so they work. Mind you though Cluso99 has brought it up about the flux being conductive, this is a point I have labored as well in this forum though not in this thread.
Here is a tip for the day: Just because you replace a part and then the unit works does not mean that the part was faulty. Triple check by putting the crystal back in again as it may have been some flux that was disturbed.
The 10Mhz crystal I have used is a Digikey part 300-8426-ND search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&site=us&keywords=300-8426-ND&x=0&y=0
Load capacitance is 18pF which is the same as the HC49 style parts as are all the other figures, even the drive level, they both use an AT cut.
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*Peter*
Edit: I believe Sapieha deserves credit for the diagnosis. Thanks, Sapieha!
Post Edited (mpark) : 4/9/2010 5:03:30 AM GMT
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Visit some of my articles at Propeller Wiki:
MATH on the propeller propeller.wikispaces.com/MATH
pPropQL: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
pPropQL020: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL020
OMU for the pPropQL/020 propeller.wikispaces.com/OMU
pPropellerSim - A propeller simulator for ASM development sourceforge.net/projects/ppropellersim
Glad you figured it out. Always nice to have more crystal options...
I've been using "no clean" solder, which I think would have prevented the problem you're seeing...
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
My Prop Products:· http://www.rayslogic.com/Propeller/Products/Products.htm