Servo Article Burns my Biscuits!
Whit
Posts: 4,191
Hey Everyone,
I just got my new Servo. The March 2010 article included a new series for beginners - Introduction to Robotics by Brennon Williams·
This months issue was An Introduction to Microcontrollers. Mr. Williams began with the Basic Stamp II and made a few not so subtle put-down. When he bought his first "What's a Microcontroller" Kit, he described the Radio Shack employee as look at him thinking "Wow, someone actually bought this thing."
His poor review continued. Next he moved to the PICAXE. One of its great features was that all the manuals and software are free to download on their website·- "All you pay for is the hardware." He failed·to mention that the same is true of the Basic Stamp II - or its fantastic library of books, code examples, Stamp Editor, etc.
Also the PICAXE is great because of its very active user group. "Users share ideas and help each other out on a daily basis, this gives the ideal support he or she needs." No·mention again of these Forums with all the great support, stickies, and tremendous people. No mention either of Andy Lindsay, Chip Gracey, Ken Gracey, Chris Savage, Jessica Uelmen - the people from Parallax who actually answer questions here.
The only con he list for the PICAXE is that the boards come in ugly colors!
Next, he moves to Arduino - which is great because of an "almost unlimited amount of documentation." There is hardly any info available for the Basic Stamp (read heavy sarcasim here!) Please!
His summary is to get a PICAXE or Arduino.
This seems very misleading to me - especially if the article is for beginner. Especially since the very knowledge that got him started was gained using the WAM kit. He even says that an advantage of the Basic Stamp II is that the manual is great for beginners (though not mentioning you can download it for free).
Is it just me - or does the bother anyone else?
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Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
I just got my new Servo. The March 2010 article included a new series for beginners - Introduction to Robotics by Brennon Williams·
This months issue was An Introduction to Microcontrollers. Mr. Williams began with the Basic Stamp II and made a few not so subtle put-down. When he bought his first "What's a Microcontroller" Kit, he described the Radio Shack employee as look at him thinking "Wow, someone actually bought this thing."
His poor review continued. Next he moved to the PICAXE. One of its great features was that all the manuals and software are free to download on their website·- "All you pay for is the hardware." He failed·to mention that the same is true of the Basic Stamp II - or its fantastic library of books, code examples, Stamp Editor, etc.
Also the PICAXE is great because of its very active user group. "Users share ideas and help each other out on a daily basis, this gives the ideal support he or she needs." No·mention again of these Forums with all the great support, stickies, and tremendous people. No mention either of Andy Lindsay, Chip Gracey, Ken Gracey, Chris Savage, Jessica Uelmen - the people from Parallax who actually answer questions here.
The only con he list for the PICAXE is that the boards come in ugly colors!
Next, he moves to Arduino - which is great because of an "almost unlimited amount of documentation." There is hardly any info available for the Basic Stamp (read heavy sarcasim here!) Please!
His summary is to get a PICAXE or Arduino.
This seems very misleading to me - especially if the article is for beginner. Especially since the very knowledge that got him started was gained using the WAM kit. He even says that an advantage of the Basic Stamp II is that the manual is great for beginners (though not mentioning you can download it for free).
Is it just me - or does the bother anyone else?
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Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
Comments
Just how burned are your biscuits now, Whit+? Just kidding, I love my Stamps. And I'm too heavily invested to jump ship now!
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·"If you build it, they will come."
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Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
I love what parallax has done for N00Bs like me ... If I had to use a PIC or what not I would never have gotten in to MCUs like I did .
I have used a PIC18F4620 for a C class a 8085 for a assembler class a 8 Pin PICAXE for a old robot and a many BS2s .
I prefer the BS2
for ease of use ,
for MAC os SW compatibility,
For a Local made product,
A very Well made product,
For a company who is willing to go teh extra ,mile
and availability ( EG in a pinch I can run to the shack and buy a HW kit for a project!)
The Only way I will dump using the BS2 is when I learn how to use a Prop .
Peter KG6LSE
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"Carpe Ducktum" "seize the tape!!"
peterthethinker.com/tesla/Venom/Venom.html
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S.
LOL
-Phil
There are many choices of microcontrollers and just as many reasons to use them or not use them. I have always enjoyed the committed status of the Parallax to its customers and the Basic Stamp and so I recommend Parallax's products. When I am making a recommendation I think about what the user really wants and what I know about them in order to match a product to their needs. Now that the Propeller library is being filled I steer more people to the Propeller than the Basic Stamp or SX.
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, 3.0" LCD Composite video display, eProto for SunSPOT
www.tdswieter.com
He said he would look in to this...
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Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
I just bought one of these and I am delighted with it! And I posted a message here about that a day or two ago. I don't remember when exactly because I have been GLUED to my PC programming that darn thing! (I just posted my first project to the Completed Projects area - I modified the Rtttl player to play 3 tunes.)
I've been in the electronics/computer field since the early 80's. And I'll say this is a good thing we have here. Back then if you wanted to experiment around with microprocessors, the chips themselves were not expensive, but the equipment to "burn" prom chips and see what was going on inside the chips cost a small fortune. I could never afford that stuff.
But now for very little money, you can buy these things and have all the tools needed for programming, with just your pc and a cable. Young people these days will have it much easier when it comes to learning about these things.
So far as some people discouraging others from doing something, this has happened to me in the past. I regret listening to them. I was right and they were wrong. I like electronics and computers. They thought I would be best in some other field (advice given to me when I was younger). This is what I am good at doing. This is what I LIKE doing. This is what I do for fun.
So listen to what is in your heart!
Anyway I bought the microcontroller so I could teach someone else about computers. However I have been totally hooked on playing with it myself since I bought it. My friend will need to pry me away from it when he comes over to do his learning!
Also I'll say I learned a long time ago you use the right system for the job. I've done some heavy duty computer work in the past. Sometimes a "computer system" is not the best system. Maybe a paper calendar posted on the wall is the best system for remembering appointments. Or maybe a simple index card file is the best way to go for something else. And same thing with computers. Sometimes a simple microcontroller will do the best job. Other times you might need a large network of high speed systems to get the job done. Pick the right system for what you want to do.
·
When you throw a BS2 into a comparison kind of article it certainly could loose, especially when specs and price become the most important comparisons. It's easy to fail the product based on these characteristics alone, I guess. What the author neglected is that there are many devices out there, more capable than everything in his article. They're all good for different types of customers and applications. Where the BS2 shines is the reliability, support, and system around it with education, hardware and especially these forums. I'm not quite sure why such negativity has to be thrust towards Parallax and the BS2.
But what really bothered me is that the article wasn't worth the space in the magazine. Even if I didn't work for Parallax I'd be questioning whether or not I trust the author to make a recommendation for me. I trust that the Servo readers can make their own conclusions.
You know that Parallax is often caught in a struggle trying to serve the hobbyist and commercial customer alike. And much of our future depends on commercial products (Propeller). While the BASIC Stamp will grow in education, the hobby exposure it receives from these magazines can be quite negative, making me wonder if the association does more damage towards meeting one of our goals of growing the professional market.
Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.
Despite an emphasis on "Propeller Mindstorms", the BASIC Stamp is still Parallax's Lego brick. Its longstanding reputation and identity with a solid, supportive company will continue to trump any malicious or misinformed press it receives.
Just remember, "There's no such thing as bad publicity, as long as they spell your name right." It would have been far worse if the author had failed to mention Parallax products at all. Moreover, those readers who didn't know it before, have now discovered that they can buy "What is a Microcontroller?" at RadioShack. An uptick in sales, as a result, would not surprise me.
-Phil
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, 3.0" LCD Composite video display, eProto for SunSPOT
www.tdswieter.com
It sounds like it was pointed more at Radio Shack than Parallax, (of course now I want to read the article myself).
Last night I stopped into Radio Shack to purchase a few parts which I was starting to run out of due to my last
project. When I joking asked them if they had a 52" plasma TV to sell, they responded with "no, but we would
love to sell you a cell phone." So "some" of the abuse to deserved.. [noparse]:)[/noparse] but I digress...
I actually wandered over to Parallax after being introduced to microcontrollers with the PICAXE. I had seen
the Basic Stamp at Radio Shack for several months before I started, but couldn't justify the price for
something that "might not take" and wind up on my shelf with other toys that I really didn't have more
than a impulse purchase for. There is a professor who sells entry level PICAXE kits for around $15.00
which include chip, a breadbooard, and a few LEDs. The PICAXE does in fact have a healthy community,
much like here. Hippy (who has been here as well) is one of their equivalents to "Mike Green". [noparse]:)[/noparse]
When I started with the Propeller protoboard in 2007, it was the video/sound features that caught my
attention, and honestly at the time the Propeller wasn't geared toward beginner users. A lot has changed
in the last three+ years. It almost sounds like the writer of Servo does not have a current preception
of Parallax. There have been many positive changes which have propelled our favorite company
forward from extremely good to excellent, and it's our repsonsibility to get the word out in
communication and great projects.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
Post Edited (Oldbitcollector) : 2/27/2010 5:02:24 PM GMT
In spite of this article (which I haven't read yet) let us all renew our commitment to introducing, teaching and helping new individuals into this great hobby. As Whit knows, teaching/mentoring isn't always easy, but it is full of great rewards. One being, more people buying Parallax's great Products (Do I sound a little Bias?) and working out new ideas can only help us all.
Tony
It seem to me that He is motivated by the cost of the Micro Controller and·NOT·so much by how much support that you can get on·any one·forum
Yes it is almost to point of being distasteful and discourage to anyone from trying to get start with a Microcontroller
I have also·wonder if I should· subscribe to Servo· any more and whether or not it is still worthwhile in the type of articles that are in it
I have to agree with most of what has been said about this article in Servo
These are MY 2 cents on this article
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··Thanks for any·
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Sam
I have seen various comments on the internet about the Basic Stamp and how it's nothing compared to the arduino and picaxe. However, before I started with "What's a Microcontroller?" 4 year's ago, I had been given a starter kit for Cypress' PSOC line of processors. I think my stumbling block with the PSOC was the lack of a community to support beginners. All of the programs I created with my PSOC kit were directly based off the demos. On the contrary, about a month after I got the WAM? kit, I had 4 different programs that only had remnants of demos in them thanks to its ease of use and these forums. AND it got easier every day.
The other thing that is disappointing is that this article is the premier article in a series "aimed at the beginner". When it comes to easy to use, flexible, and affordable robots, isn't the Basic Stamp (IE: BOEBOT) in the top 3 if not #1??????????
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Andrew Williams
WBA Consulting
WBA-TH1M Sensirion SHT11 Module
Special Olympics Polar Bear Plunge, Mar 20, 2010
Same guy? yep.. bwsciencelabs.com/home/ & www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2J8_bmf4a4
I think the links speak for themselves in regard to Mr Williams. Draw your own conclusions.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
Post Edited (Oldbitcollector) : 2/27/2010 8:21:32 PM GMT
-Phil
Only if you are "mentally challenged" would go to a Radio Shack for any type of support, at least around these parts.
Common sense (not to mention credibility, honesty, etc.) would also suggest that if you are going to offer a "review" that there is a certain amount of responsibility involved in doing at least a moderate amount of research. Like looking at the docs that come with the product and maybe checking out the resources mentioned might be a good start.
Personally, this is not only bogus on the part of the author, but the editors of Servo also need to accept some responsibility. To blindly print an article as submitted, is bogus at best. In this case, it would seem especially true, as Parallax is a long time "partner", and as much stuff as they have printed in the past, they should "know better" in terms of the incomplete (and apparently biased) information presented.
All that said, very shortly after I purchased my first stamp (I think I have about 3, but would have to dig), I moved to the SX, and now the Prop. The cost/performance of the Stamp is not pretty, but that is not the intended market, and putting the Stamp against the other processors "head to head" is not a fair comparison. With the demise of the SX, there is a definite "hole" in the Parallax line in terms of a "low end" microprocessor.
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John R.
Click here to see my Nomad Build Log
I did not mention the part in the article where he said he sold his WAM kit on e-bay. His reaction when he sold it was the same as the Radio Shack employee, "Wow, someone actually bought this thing." He was not knocking Radio Shack, but the Basic Stamp II·and the WAM kit.·
I hope everyone checks it out.
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Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
Post Edited (Whit) : 2/27/2010 10:46:28 PM GMT
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·"If you build it, they will come."
Edit - Just so we are clear - I have nothing against giving other products their due. I just hate that the Basic Stamp was misrepresented.
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Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
Post Edited (Whit) : 2/28/2010 2:56:35 AM GMT
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, 3.0" LCD Composite video display, eProto for SunSPOT
www.tdswieter.com
I surmise it's the same as you alluded.
DJ
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BTW, I think both PICAXE and ARDUNIO are bad jokes. On the one hand, PICAXE is quite limited in what it will do; on the other hand, ARDUNIO tries to make artists out of engineers with a lot of fancy jargon regardless of the fact that they got a good processor that need a lot of clear straight talk.
In sum, the zoo has all kinds of animals, but if you want a wonderful support community with loyal customer service, Parallax usually leads the way. The people who own Nuts & Volts/Servo are nice people who usually try to be fair to everyone. It looks to me like Parallax's major media buy is Nuts & Volts back page while Servo is left to other vendors.
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Ain't gadetry a wonderful thing?
aka G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse] 黃鶴 ] in Taiwan
Post Edited (Loopy Byteloose) : 2/28/2010 1:53:28 PM GMT
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Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
Post Edited (Whit) : 2/28/2010 1:48:59 PM GMT
Nods...
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com