pPad: Open Source Propeller-based Information Appliance
Hanno
Posts: 1,130
Since there's lot's of hoopla around the Apple iPad, I wanted to see if people wanted to collaborate on a Propeller based Information Appliance.
I think the pPad should be:
- ideal for consuming ebooks, photos, websites and email
- lightweight and mobile
- easy for anyone to use
- OPEN SOURCE (hi ken!)
I don't think the pPad needs to:
- support creation of content- so no need for an OS or apps like CAD...
- support videos- the tv is better suited for this
Hardware:
- 9" color touchscreen
- Propeller
- SD Card
- Wifi
Software:
- Simple web browser, text may even be enough
- Display images, BMP may be enough
- Display books from gutenberg.org
Any thoughts?
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
I think the pPad should be:
- ideal for consuming ebooks, photos, websites and email
- lightweight and mobile
- easy for anyone to use
- OPEN SOURCE (hi ken!)
I don't think the pPad needs to:
- support creation of content- so no need for an OS or apps like CAD...
- support videos- the tv is better suited for this
Hardware:
- 9" color touchscreen
- Propeller
- SD Card
- Wifi
Software:
- Simple web browser, text may even be enough
- Display images, BMP may be enough
- Display books from gutenberg.org
Any thoughts?
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
Comments
Great idea!
How difficult would it be to a the ability to read PDF files?
Decoding any PDF is ridiculously complex. Let's start with text on a touchscreen, then move on to marked up text.
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
Books (like college texts) are going to files rather than paper, so an easy IPAD competitor would be sweeeeeeeeeet
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
These days you'd almost need sites specially created to support 'simple browsers' as so much of the interaction and content is 'non-trivilally' implemented. (Mouseover, CSS, Frames, iFrames, and so on... )
IF you really want to look at this, I suggest you take a look at Lynx, a text-mode browser:
http://lynx.isc.org/
But I warn you, a lot of 'simple browser' projects have fallen by the wayside the last few years...
(One was a browser for the Cambridge Z88, a Z80based laptop. I believe they finally decided it was infeasible)
Another possiblility would be to support WAP, or a simple purpose-designed hypertext language for these machines.
But that would also require either dedicated web pages written for these machines, or possibly a 'gateway server' which translates normal pages into the simpler format.
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Don't visit my new website...
To start with a standard prop with VGA and an overlay touch screen would be ideal. IIRC the iPad display is a standard 1024x768.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
It would be great to get basic text + hyperlinks working, and go from there.
I have a dozen or so Gunze touch screen converter modules which convert to RS232 serial stream. Would these be useful?
What are you thinking re power source, and what WiFi module(s) do you have in mind?
cheers
tubular
This can't be that hard [noparse]:)[/noparse]
I'd love to reuse existing software/drivers wherever possible. What has been done? Please help fill my list, I'm only a "casual" forum addictee...
Existing code:
- Kye's SD Card file system
- Bill's Morpheus with hi-res graphics
- PrEditor, a Propeller text editor
- Ethernet pop-mail
Is there an object that:
- displays images?
- marked up text?
- interfaces to touch screen?
Biggest issue on the hardware side is the screen- anyone know of a good source to get started?
I love the idea of a gateway server that translates complex things into the pPad format.
I used Lynx many years ago- thanks for the memories [noparse]:)[/noparse] Should be much better on a touch screen...
Must be mobile, so whichever batteries the screen requires...
No clue about wifi module. Would be fine starting out with blue-tooth, I have one of the Parallax ones.
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
Interesting information about the iPad OS from WikiPedia (emphasis mine):
"Like Mac OS X, from which it was derived, it uses the Darwin foundation. iPhone OS has four abstraction layers: the Core OS layer, the Core Services layer, the Media layer, and the Cocoa Touch layer. The operating system takes less than 500 megabytes of the device's total memory storage."
Huh? 500Mb just for the operating system of the iPad? And still no multitasking?
Magic indeed - marketing magic.
We really need to introduce those guys to the Propeller!
Ross.
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Catalina - a FREE C compiler for the Propeller - see Catalina
Umm, no I think you will find it multitasks, it's just against the rules. Apple applications multitask, nobody elses are allowed to.
Don't be fooled, it's pretty much a cut down version of OSX. So yes, it's 500Mb, but that includes a fully POSIX compliant BSD derivative, graphical subsystem, all the eye candy and the off the shelf applications.
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Life may be "too short", but it's the longest thing we ever do.
I am considering making a portable Morpheus, so far the lack of a nice affordable 7"+ screen is what has been stopping me.
Also the Morpheus design is not open source, so I'd be doing one as a commercial product.
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www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system
Prop II may be up for the challenge though...
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
Local Oz supplier Soanrplus has a 7" touch for around US$125, but no stock unfortunately. 800x480 WVGA, 400 cd/m2 or nits, part code UMSH-8173MD-1T (soanar QPP136) . But that gives me hope of finding one sub $100 without too much trouble.
I'll check a couple of other suppliers see what can be found
Roving Networks by name. Self-contained WiFi module. Use it for prototyping, low cost is a later requirement.
RayMan is correct, it is probably a Prop2 project, but working out the form factor and aesthetic is a worthwhile project unto itself. Also, we need practice on open source collaboration. Our comm sharing tools are in the stone age. Anybody using 3D laser rapid prototyping skill sets?
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JMH
Post Edited (Mike Huselton) : 1/29/2010 3:53:19 AM GMT
You'd definately need something like Morpheus with a dual Prop design. With one prop dedicated mostly to video display with a decent amount of sram hooked to it.
If we could do 800 x 600 x 2 or 4bit gray scale with 8x16 tiles for book reader / text editor mode, and 400x300x8bit color for mobile web browser or photo mode. I'm sure a prop could do both of these.
I'd be fine with the display being only 7inch. That's about the size of a typical paperback book.
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Check out the Propeller Wiki·and contribute if you can.
Back to pPad... LCD's around 7" are readily available in photoframes and DVD players, so there should be a cheap source out there. However, that is an area that will improve, so for now lets just use an external VGA monitor as most would have access to one, even if you scrounge an old monitor version.
The WiFi module should be the place to start. Thanks Mike, I will take a look.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
I found some other 7" touch screen options - Sharp LQ070Y3DG3B is in stock for AU$143 ex but relatively difficult to interface to compared with ET070000DH6 (waiting on price from Glyn). I agree with Cluso that priority should really be marked up text rendering first (via tethering application on PC?), WiFi second (replacing tether), display and touch third (use VGA for time being sounds fine while get a viable LCD option)
@Roy I think there may be a way of using the 23K256's you mentioned in another thread in an interleaved even/odd pixel manner. Use a single 20Mhz counter with both normal (A Pin) and inverted (B Pin) to clock separate 23K256's in streaming mode, then recombine them for up to a 40 Mhz stream to drive the LCD. 800x480 shouild be doable with colour depth increased by adding more pairs of 23K256's. Worth thinking more about...
cgi.ebay.com/7-TFT-LCD-Module-Display-800X480-Touch-Panel-Screen_W0QQitemZ190367645601QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c52cbbfa1
The WiFly module costs 50$ at DigiKey. It has some nice features for a pPad:
- Only 2 Prop pins needed (RX and TX).
- Generates stable 3.3V from 2 Batteries (also usable for the Prop)
- Built in RTC
- Built in I/Os and ADCs (i.e. for TouchScreen sensing)
- Built in chip antenna
- (it has also 128 kB Ram but I don't know if this is accessible from the Prop).
BUT:
After playing a lot with Raymans 4.3" LCDs, I know why he is more than sceptic, that such a pPod is possible with the current Propeller chip. The RAM is just not big enough for pictures, and external RAM is slow or needs a lot of pins.
Andy
7" screen is a good start. Good job Ariba on finding it for a decent price. Thanks Mike for the WiFly recommendation- you mentioned you've used it? With a Prop? Got an object for it?
Simplifying it enough to make it feasible, but still powerful enough to be useful will take some thinking- so please keep sharing your thoughts of what you want the pPad to be.
Even Apple seems to downplay the "general purpose computer" part of the iPad. The pPad is not a fully functional PC- and will not do CAD. It's mobile, build-able by hobbyists, and serves a specific need:
Consuming information while lying on the sofa.
I'm willing to live without hi-res moving graphics if it'll increase the number of people willing to participate in this experiment. I'd love to do this with one Propeller, 1 touch screen, Wifi and and an SD Card. Can others live with marked up text+static images/photos? I think I can- but please let me know if something like this already exists.
Could we fit something like this into a photo frame? Ie, buy a photo frame for the display, power and frame- then hack in the Propeller and wifi?
As much as these forums are "stone-age technology" it's still the people that count. Worst case we could try out Google Wave when/if we need it.
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
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JMH
I am also willing to make customized Morpheus (or other) boards assembled and tested, subject to a minimum order quantity and prices. I am running a business after all [noparse]:)[/noparse]
I don't want to spill too many beans, but I have a whole slew of products coming out at UPEW '10 - and before it.
I would point out my previous LCD threads... proof that I have been searching for nice LCD solutions for Morpheus (and other propeller boards) for quite a while [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
gizmodo.com/5459308/slate-showdown-ipad-vs-hp-slate-vs-joojoo-vs-android-tablets--more-updated?skyline=true&s=i
What do people think about using the Morpheus- that would get us high resolution graphics and proven hardware...
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
I'm using a Telit GC864 GSM modem to connect to the Project Gutenberg FTP site. My objective at the moment is just to download the text of an eBook to the VGA screen.
The screen is a standard 4:3 15" LG monitor, with a gunze 15" touch screen taped on top, and stainless bezel taped on top of that. I've just taped the gunze touch converter around the back of the monitor. Gotta love that double sided vhb foam tape. ComputerGuy's stickers clean it up nicely and could be used as a power/home button.
So far I can connect to the FTP site but it freezes after the first line of text. I either have a handshaking, antenna or power supply issue (those modems draw a sharp 2A peak current while transmitting). Connecting to HTTP or Email servers etc is just as easy, just change the port from 21...
cheers
tubular
Post Edited (Tubular) : 1/30/2010 10:55:08 PM GMT
Hanno: I would like the hardware to be open source (if that's what you call it) as well. This way we can build our own hardware if we want, or adapt other hardware to suit. I know this means that we will ultimately be supporting more hardware solutions (just like ZiCog) but that is what open source is all about. BTW, I have no objection to commercial hardware using/running the code.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
Cluso- I think that's a great idea. To make it more concrete- the pPad project is about producing several objects that deal with things like rendering marked up text, connecting via wireless to the internet, and interfacing with a touch screen. Different people can use different hardware to scratch different itches. As long as we keep the objects nicely contained, it shouldn't matter if you're building a hi-res graphics pPad with multiple Propellers, or a text-based one with a simple ProtoBoard. Correct?
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
I'll be happy to help the project where I reasonably can - one of the ways I can help is that I have excellent sources for PCB manufacturing, so if y'all want send gerbers to me, I can get the boards made for the group at a really good price...
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www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system
I think with this particular project, a single prop, with peripherals Hanno describes, can fulfill three of the four target applications (reader, email, basic web). These can easily be text based and that makes the core part useful with simply an existing TV or VGA output. Imagine kids being able to build their own pPad that plugs 'literature' into AV2 on the front of their TV, rather than Wii or PS3 (ok maybe thats optimistic!)
So I think at least the core functions need to be open source. In fact I really like the idea of rounding in other open source features (eg a propscope port). Like Cluso I have absolutely no problems if anyone builds commercial products from the core
We still need to nail down a display. I really like Bill's 5" that takes both VGA or TV. A 7" or larger that could do the same would be ideal. Bill, if you have one in mind for Morpheus perhaps we can add to the volume on the model to make it all feasible? I'm still looking at whats our there, but really want to prove it works before flagging as a viable option.
cheers
tubular
I agree, a single prop would do quite nicely for a basic text.
I am currently negotiating with a new supplier on a few different products:
1) 5.0" 640x480 VGA (like my existing one) - I may be able to get a better price if I can put together an order for 50-100 pieces.
Currently I offer these to forum members for $125USD + s/h, and I have three units in stock. I am negotiating with a new supplier because my old one raised shipping on me significantly on my last order, and I'd have to raise my prices on the next order unless I find a better source.
This one would be a killer choice for text - I don't know if you saw the photo's I posted in my Morpheus and 5" VGA threads.
LCD panels like this are sold for $250USD-$350USD in low quantities from the American distrubutors - check Digikey.com and FutureElectronics.com yourselves.
I can sell an optional 4 wire resistive touch panel for it for about $23USD
2) a 7" LCD with an analog board for video input - I may be able to sell them for $70-$75USD + s/h if I can put together a pre-order for 50-100 pieces, or about $85USD+s/h each in low quantities.
This one would do nice 40 column text, and if I can get the S-Video version at a similar price, it should be good for 64-80 columns!
I can sell the 4 wire resistive touch panel for this one for about $27USD
(Yes, I know there are some nice 7" panels on Ebay with touch panel for about $85-$95 +s/h - but that is a bare LCD, no driver board - a driver board is about $35USD on Ebay)
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www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system
Post Edited (Bill Henning) : 3/24/2010 8:07:40 PM GMT