> the Ubuntu team doesn't maintain their apt-get repositories long enough for a given version
You need to install a LTS (long time support) version. The laptop I'm writing this on has 6.06 LTS. And I'm still getting updates, new kernels, ... And not a single time that something went wrong. I just look what gets updated and always confirm.
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.: YADRO
Indeed Nick. I've been using Hardy Heron since it came out and have had no issues at all. The updates do seem to come up more often than I would like though. ... Beats the heck out of my last update experience with Vista ... I was down for days because of that.
Yesterday, I stopped by Staples and bought a little HP Mini netbook computer to use inside our home. It came with Windows XP (they had one with Windows 7, but it was $70 more and I didn't feel like experimenting).
Whenever·I start this thing up, I'm accosted with notices advising me to download updates to·various programs. This morning it was for Adobe Reader, Flash Player, and a suspicious-acting·"trial version"·of Norton·Anti-Virus that seemed to come with the computer (it won't take "no" for an answer). It took 15 minutes before I could even use the machine.
After reading some of your postings here, I thought I'd try downloading Ubuntu, as I've got a fresh compulsion to get away from Windows. I started downloading·Ubuntu and the computer tried to go to sleep at 1% into the download. I got it "awake", but then the mouse pad wasn't responsive. The keyboard worked, but I couldn't·navigate my way back into my user profile. Eventually, I had to hit the power switch. It went into hibernate mode and with another power switching, it came back up, mouse working and·download aborted. Meanwhile, it seems to be downloading "updates" per some shield icon on the right side of the taskbar. What's it doing? Why can't I stop it? Who knows? Who am I to question? I feel like a total sucker just using this thing.
This entire experience is typical of Windows and patently horrid, at that. After three hours of use, I don't trust this thing's stability or allegiance one whit. Such a shame, too. Lots of processing power, data storage, and battery life, but·all made·worthless by a bloated, out-of-control·operating system·whose only parallel·might be·the government. The PC has devolved into a wretched mess. This is why I'm so inclined to make·stable built-in tools for the Propeller.
well I would recomend changing the power settings and try downloading linux.
I like linux but there are some major down sides to it which is why I only run it on my web server.
Positives:
*Stable - my web server can store petabytes of data, host tens of thousands of people at a time, and run complex math with only a few hours of down time a year for maintenance.
*Free
*Once you got things installed it is easy to use, faster and more stable then windows
Negatives:
*Can't play blue ray videos.
*Some times difficult to get new software installed
I can certainly understand your frustration. I don't feel as if I've actually "owned" a computer since CP/M and, to a lesser extent, MSDOS. The current "state of the art" in op systems (Ubuntu included) is a soul-sucking disaster.
But the amount of effort you would need to pour into an on-chip dev system seems out of proportion to the percentage of users who would benefit from it. The majority of P2 sales will (hopefully) be to OEMs, who want fast, flexible, PC-resident dev systems with advanced features to aid productivity. Since it's only you and Jeff doing dev software, I think the allocation of that resource should favor the larger user base.
While I do agree that an on-chip IDE would be extremely cool, my concern is what I, as a more mainstream developer, might have to sacrifice to make it possible. For example, I'm already chafing a bit at the lack of preprocessor hooks and OBJ subdirectory support in the P1 IDE. My fear is that, with the more advanced capabilities of the P2, this situation will only become more acute if resources are diverted to the "neat-but-not-universally-useful".
-Phil
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 11/28/2009 9:18:30 PM GMT
Chip,
check if there is a distribution tailor made for your netbook family. They are usually based on Debian/Ubuntu, but are customized to include the drivers for the smaller systems. For example easy peasy, moblin, and so on. The footprint is smaller, and it is an easy way to start.
Moreover you can install the new OS besides the other, for instance on a SD card.
Afterward you can add more programs, for the repository, or who knows, something like bst?
There are also "live" Linux distributions that be run directly from CDROM (e.g. Knoppix, which I have even used to extract files from a blown Windows hard drive). That way you can give Linux a try without installing anything.
Chip Gracey (Parallax) said...
This entire experience is typical of Windows and patently horrid, at that. After three hours of use, I don't trust this thing's stability or allegiance one whit.
I'm with you. In the lab where I work we have to use Windows machines because National Instruments doesn't make drivers for OS X. I set one up as a data logger and the first time we had it run overnight it downloaded a virus database update and rebooted itself and we lost all the data. Luckily the program we use for data acquisition, analysis, and graphing is cross-platform so once I get my data I can switch over to my Mac and work with it there.
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Chip Gracey (Parallax) said...
After reading some of your postings here, I thought I'd try downloading Ubuntu, as I've got a fresh compulsion to get away from Windows. ...
It seems your desire to get away from Windows has out run your ability to get away from Windows. If I were you, paying a visit to the Parallax IT team would be high on my short list of things to do Monday.
Commercial Ad:
Stop Suffering, use Linux. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
About Ubuntu: Ubuntu is well known, because there is much money spent on advertising. Ubuntu is Debian really. I currently use Mandriva and I used Suse Linux.
I recommend KDE as desktop, and Qt for programming, but using Lazarus things are easier because Lazarus to compile anything (GTK, Qt, etc.).
It's just my opinion.
One thing I've ever noticed in Windows, is the use of Antivirus, but all are full of virus, all USB memory with virus, then why use antivirus? To make the PC slow?
An easy way to see the virus in USB flash drives are using Linux, "Recycle" is usually the most famous.
It seems your desire to get away from Windows has out run your ability to get away from Windows. If I were you, paying a visit to the Parallax IT team would be high on my short list of things to do Monday.
Very funny, Jazzed! But true. What about all the poor fools who don't have an IT department to go to? Oh, yeah, they take their computer back to Best Buy where some grunt discovers·kiddie porn·that was downloaded by some virus and THEN they're in real trouble.
If Windows wasn't bad enough, it's overrun with obnoxious·uninvited guests and imposters who pop up in your face and demand that you sign your name in agreement to their plans, which are always just plans to extend their fiefdoms. It's getting·hard to get anything done, because they are always interrupting us. We work for them now. Someday, in a revolutionary act, people might just erase everything they ever made on-line and carefully dismantle their computers, flushing small pieces down the toilet to avoiding any "recycling".
Maybe someday it will be illegal to dismantle or dispose of your computer·without going through some certified "recycle" operation that tracks everything. And you'd better maintain an on-line presence up until the day of recycling, with a·plan in place to get back on-line within 24 hours. Woe on you if your hard drive doesn't work in the hands of the recyclers. There·might even·be a waiting period before you can disown your computer. It will be like gun control, but with the mandate being, you must have one. Only criminals won't have computers.
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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Chip Gracey (Parallax)) : 11/28/2009 10:09:23 PM GMT
One interesting thing to note is a study that was done did last year about the netbooks that were sold. Back then about 50% came with some form of linix and 50% came with Windows XP. There were 4x as many returns on the Linix based netbooks. Many people jumped on them because of the cheaper price, but once they not on a Windows platform, they were lost.
My experience with Linux has been that it's rock steady until something goes bad. Then you almost have to have a black belt in op systems to deal with it. Thank goodness for Webmin and the online Linux forums, else it would be hopeless — for me anyway. A good op system is like a good butler: ready to serve when you need it, invisible when you don't.
One killer way to run these live distributions is from a USB key. I made a Ubuntu one for my thinkpad. Running XP, I can get 3 hours with the power management stuff all working.
If I pull the CD-ROM and insert two USB keys, one for the OS, and the other for my writable home directory, battery goes up to about 3.5 hours, and the machine is absolutely slient, and very, very fast.
You've all got to try this! I'm seriously thinking about building up a machine with NO hard disk at all. Just use a few good, fast USB key devices, and call it good. I was stunned at how nicely things worked running that way. I used a couple 2GB USB devices, and now keep them on a key chain with my car keys. An awful lot of machines will just boot what is on those keys and work well. Amazing stuff really.
Accosted... That's the perfect word.
Recently I got to spend about a week using Linux and MacOS. It was an amazingly quiet and productive week! Firing up my XP running thinkpad was just like that, and I've spent more time than I want to admit quieting the thing down.
What we need is a Propeller oriented live distribution. Remaster one of the Ubuntu ones, and distribute the ISO. Would be damn cool, IMHO.
@Chip, it's often better to just load a stock XP image. This factors out the Smile, and leaves you with a reasonable machine. Takes a few hours --enough to probably equal the cost of the computer though. Bummer that, but given it's going to be used a while, I would just consider that the "use tax", get it done and over with.
My favourite way to run Windows is to cage it up in a virtual machine running under Debian. Get the thing installed in a VM, set it up the way you like, install whatever software you need.
Now here is the magic part. Take a backup copy of the VM image file that has your XP in it. This need not be so huge as it is only the size of the Windows files + whatever is installed, not the size of the entire disk space available to Windows.
Now, when Windows gets out of control just delete it and copy back the backup image. Bingo all clean and healthy again.
What happens to all my carefully crafted data in the messed up Windows image you ask?
No problem, you can set up a share in Windows that is actually a directory in the Debian host. So all your Windows files are safe.
I use Sun's Virtual Box to run XP like this. No dual booting hassles.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Yes, yes! Run Windows within a safe, disposable, throw-away container. Perfect.
I like the idea of a whole efficient OS for a PC being held entirely on a USB memory stick that gets booted from. Really clean. I want to try that, Potatohead.
The guy at my work stated that the rumours of "ET phone home" was completely disproven, he has only had W7 for two weeks, how would he know? He couldn't ge Email, unless the corporate path was trudged (and, yes, this is the guy who slagged off the prop earlier this week (stone the heritic)) I have heard that "W8" is being demo'ed, already.
To be a free bird would be so glorious, but at such a drain on the people that are forging the Prop2 (BTW dont call it the P2, that one didn't make 1 year)
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Style and grace : Nil point
Sorry had no time to draw pictures on my idea of reversal move of BYTES/WORDS/LONGS - that give posiblity to mowe that data from one Long addres to other and in same time reverse BIT's order in one instruction.
That needs for rapid SERIALISING if data commes from any device that send LSB first and I ned it to be MSB first in COLECT Long.
BUT I have any other question ..... What about THAT at You delate from Prop II low frequency oscilator and istead WASTE 3 pins and ad POSIBLITY to add 32.xxx KHz crystal extern. That can give us pricise RTC clock for all type of Frequency/Periods masurements.
And In All programs that ned Correct Frequency from HIGH XTal oscilator ..... We can masure it with help of that TRC cklock and give it to program that need it.
USABLE ito set VGA work frequencies and other that things without KNOW what XTAL any one have used (Overklocked Prop II) can still RUN all on board Development programs without problems.
My Linix experience has been a good one but I prefer Fedora.· I tried Ubuntu at first and found that the layout software that we·use is particular and initially designed to be optimized for·Red-Hat.· Since Fedora is clostest to·Red-Hat that has been the route I have taken.·· Because·we still are forced to use Windows my main system is a·native Linux boot (Fedora), and·I use Vmware to run·Windows on a dual head system in a way that one head is Linux, and the other head is Windows.· Because Vmware 'encapsulates' Windows I can maintain any problems that might creep·up with Windows a little easier this way.
If you wan't Chip, I can make·the latest Fedora install available on·the network·drive for you·to download.
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IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
I can understand your frustration about your boot-up experience with the netbook. Why are you upset at MS instead of HP. It is HP that loaded all the software that was downrev and needed to update. They loaded all the trail versions of this and that. MS only supplied the OS. If Ubuntu or Linux or XYZ were mainstream then HP would be selling it and loading it down with all sorts of "Extra" software that they get be paid to put on the system so the SW vendors can hope to sell it to you at a later date. I don't have any love lost with MS but they are not the only cause of irritation with new computers.
To be a free bird would be so glorious, but at such a drain on the people that are forging the Prop2 (BTW dont call it the P2, that one didn't make 1 year)
What do you mean? Fun work goes fast. It's the tedium that takes forever.
I bet an on-chip IDE would only take 1-2 months to develop.
I can understand your frustration about your boot-up experience with the netbook. Why are you upset at MS instead of HP. It is HP that loaded all the software that was downrev and needed to update. They loaded all the trail versions of this and that. MS only supplied the OS. If Ubuntu or Linux or XYZ were mainstream then HP would be selling it and loading it down with all sorts of "Extra" software that they get be paid to put on the system so the SW vendors can hope to sell it to you at a later date. I don't have any love lost with MS but they are not the only cause of irritation with new computers.
You're right. This occurred to me after·I wrote what I did. I still have huge problems with Windows, despite its being buried in commercials.
The computer gives me the same feeling these days that TV used to before we got rid of it. That was a liberating move. We just need a stable, commercial-free platform on which to access the web and work. The hardware's all there. It's just a software problem now.
In my humble opinion I would consider making the Prop II IDE a cross platform app a higher priority than an on-chip IDE. I really want to be able to program the Prop II without having to use Windblows.
Lots of talk about getting away from windows via Linux, I've tried Linux several times over the years but I seem to lack the knowledge of how to really use it. Bash, hash, terminals and various command line stuff - ugh. Great for those that know what to do with it but for me I am very happy with OS X. I'm sure I'll give it another go again sometime...
I think it was when I upgraded to Win98 that I got really impressed with how fast a program would start up. You could launch a program and before you could blink it would be up and running ready for input. Nowadays, the programming is so deep that even with GHZ processors the launching time is many times what it used to be. I get the feeling that the more speed and RAM that is available, the less "clever" the coding needs to be.
If posible .... I will use On board Development with DUMB terminal only.
But to that need that RTC system I described ... That PROP II can always start with correct BAUD rates.
Eles can start VGA and TGB correctly with unspecified XTal I use ... Maybe lower maybe higher frequency as Specified form Parallax.
Regards
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Chip, bring that netbook to Parallax Monday and IT Guy will promptly lobotomize it and install an MSFT OEM license. Next time, you could also ask him to get you a netbook, as he just did for several of the crew to take on business trips. These machines were purchased at Wal-Mart, but he was able to deliver them in a cleaned-up fashion without further accosting the user (er, the netbook wouldn't further accost the user).
@Chip
Be careful how you bad mouth the bloatware PC industry. It's what is keeping food on the table over here in Ohio. [noparse]:)[/noparse] Although I've been reasonably impressed by Win7, (At lease when compared to Vista) I wouldn't want it on a netbook. Bleh!
I've been temped to dump the XP install from my MSI wind unit and try the new Ubuntu, but honestly, the more features that Linux adds to make it work like Windoze, the more bloated like Windoze it becomes. Comparing my Ubuntu machine to my XP box in the same class, I don't see a lot of bonus one way or the other.
How about a super sleek 64KB OS for the PC that boots off a USB thumb drive and gives you a Spin IDE that targets the PC, itself? Your compiled apps could have complete control over the PC hardware (if this is even possible). I know it's silly and rather stifling for a PC, and Spin wouldn't be many people's first choice, but it sure would be nice to have a concise platform just for writing experimental apps on. I bet the PC would be amazingly fast, then. No commercials, either.
if you like the USB bootable linux idea, try the live CD's too - as someone earlier in this thread suggested. You can test drive a linux "distro" without buying the car (or the semi-tractor trailer in the case of Ubuntu or Windows [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Of course, they boot a little slow and create a RAM drive, so stuff is temporary. (You can set it up to write to your existing Windows C: drive too, but I wouldn't try that until you've got a few tests under your belt. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
RE Windows: the junk-ware (sorry OBC) that's on your new machine is not the fault of Windows per se - as several have noted - it was most likely add-ons offered to the vendor of the machine. A clean XP and Win7 install works rock solid. (Vista is a five letter word) I have / use many machines running XP and various WinServers - some have not been rebooted for months and are used heavily.
That little shield in the bottom right corner of the task bar can be stopped - but don't do it by killing the process from taskman, or you could dork your machines registry. The right way to do this is to turn the Windows update to manual and notify. That way, when updates are available, it lets you know - but you can choose 'expert' mode and decide what to take and what not to - the info about the individual updates is usually pretty clear.
In this respect, I see little difference between windows and linux update mechanisms. And as Phil mentions, if your linux distro goes belly up, you'll pay for that "free" OS with your time. Same with Windows - only a different set of headaches... in either case, we all often resort to 'slicking the disk' and starting over.
Comments
You need to install a LTS (long time support) version. The laptop I'm writing this on has 6.06 LTS. And I'm still getting updates, new kernels, ... And not a single time that something went wrong. I just look what gets updated and always confirm.
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
Yesterday, I stopped by Staples and bought a little HP Mini netbook computer to use inside our home. It came with Windows XP (they had one with Windows 7, but it was $70 more and I didn't feel like experimenting).
Whenever·I start this thing up, I'm accosted with notices advising me to download updates to·various programs. This morning it was for Adobe Reader, Flash Player, and a suspicious-acting·"trial version"·of Norton·Anti-Virus that seemed to come with the computer (it won't take "no" for an answer). It took 15 minutes before I could even use the machine.
After reading some of your postings here, I thought I'd try downloading Ubuntu, as I've got a fresh compulsion to get away from Windows. I started downloading·Ubuntu and the computer tried to go to sleep at 1% into the download. I got it "awake", but then the mouse pad wasn't responsive. The keyboard worked, but I couldn't·navigate my way back into my user profile. Eventually, I had to hit the power switch. It went into hibernate mode and with another power switching, it came back up, mouse working and·download aborted. Meanwhile, it seems to be downloading "updates" per some shield icon on the right side of the taskbar. What's it doing? Why can't I stop it? Who knows? Who am I to question? I feel like a total sucker just using this thing.
This entire experience is typical of Windows and patently horrid, at that. After three hours of use, I don't trust this thing's stability or allegiance one whit. Such a shame, too. Lots of processing power, data storage, and battery life, but·all made·worthless by a bloated, out-of-control·operating system·whose only parallel·might be·the government. The PC has devolved into a wretched mess. This is why I'm so inclined to make·stable built-in tools for the Propeller.
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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
I like linux but there are some major down sides to it which is why I only run it on my web server.
Positives:
*Stable - my web server can store petabytes of data, host tens of thousands of people at a time, and run complex math with only a few hours of down time a year for maintenance.
*Free
*Once you got things installed it is easy to use, faster and more stable then windows
Negatives:
*Can't play blue ray videos.
*Some times difficult to get new software installed
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24 bit LCD Breakout Board coming soon. $21.99 has backlight driver and touch sensitive decoder.
I can certainly understand your frustration. I don't feel as if I've actually "owned" a computer since CP/M and, to a lesser extent, MSDOS. The current "state of the art" in op systems (Ubuntu included) is a soul-sucking disaster.
But the amount of effort you would need to pour into an on-chip dev system seems out of proportion to the percentage of users who would benefit from it. The majority of P2 sales will (hopefully) be to OEMs, who want fast, flexible, PC-resident dev systems with advanced features to aid productivity. Since it's only you and Jeff doing dev software, I think the allocation of that resource should favor the larger user base.
While I do agree that an on-chip IDE would be extremely cool, my concern is what I, as a more mainstream developer, might have to sacrifice to make it possible. For example, I'm already chafing a bit at the lack of preprocessor hooks and OBJ subdirectory support in the P1 IDE. My fear is that, with the more advanced capabilities of the P2, this situation will only become more acute if resources are diverted to the "neat-but-not-universally-useful".
-Phil
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 11/28/2009 9:18:30 PM GMT
check if there is a distribution tailor made for your netbook family. They are usually based on Debian/Ubuntu, but are customized to include the drivers for the smaller systems. For example easy peasy, moblin, and so on. The footprint is smaller, and it is an easy way to start.
Moreover you can install the new OS besides the other, for instance on a SD card.
Afterward you can add more programs, for the repository, or who knows, something like bst?
Massimo
-Phil
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OS-X: because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows
links:
My band's website
Our album on the iTunes Music Store
Stop Suffering, use Linux. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
About Ubuntu: Ubuntu is well known, because there is much money spent on advertising. Ubuntu is Debian really. I currently use Mandriva and I used Suse Linux.
I recommend KDE as desktop, and Qt for programming, but using Lazarus things are easier because Lazarus to compile anything (GTK, Qt, etc.).
It's just my opinion.
One thing I've ever noticed in Windows, is the use of Antivirus, but all are full of virus, all USB memory with virus, then why use antivirus? To make the PC slow?
An easy way to see the virus in USB flash drives are using Linux, "Recycle" is usually the most famous.
If Windows wasn't bad enough, it's overrun with obnoxious·uninvited guests and imposters who pop up in your face and demand that you sign your name in agreement to their plans, which are always just plans to extend their fiefdoms. It's getting·hard to get anything done, because they are always interrupting us. We work for them now. Someday, in a revolutionary act, people might just erase everything they ever made on-line and carefully dismantle their computers, flushing small pieces down the toilet to avoiding any "recycling".
Maybe someday it will be illegal to dismantle or dispose of your computer·without going through some certified "recycle" operation that tracks everything. And you'd better maintain an on-line presence up until the day of recycling, with a·plan in place to get back on-line within 24 hours. Woe on you if your hard drive doesn't work in the hands of the recyclers. There·might even·be a waiting period before you can disown your computer. It will be like gun control, but with the mandate being, you must have one. Only criminals won't have computers.
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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Chip Gracey (Parallax)) : 11/28/2009 10:09:23 PM GMT
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Jim Fouch
FOUCH SOFTWARE
-Phil
If I pull the CD-ROM and insert two USB keys, one for the OS, and the other for my writable home directory, battery goes up to about 3.5 hours, and the machine is absolutely slient, and very, very fast.
You've all got to try this! I'm seriously thinking about building up a machine with NO hard disk at all. Just use a few good, fast USB key devices, and call it good. I was stunned at how nicely things worked running that way. I used a couple 2GB USB devices, and now keep them on a key chain with my car keys. An awful lot of machines will just boot what is on those keys and work well. Amazing stuff really.
Accosted... That's the perfect word.
Recently I got to spend about a week using Linux and MacOS. It was an amazingly quiet and productive week! Firing up my XP running thinkpad was just like that, and I've spent more time than I want to admit quieting the thing down.
What we need is a Propeller oriented live distribution. Remaster one of the Ubuntu ones, and distribute the ISO. Would be damn cool, IMHO.
@Chip, it's often better to just load a stock XP image. This factors out the Smile, and leaves you with a reasonable machine. Takes a few hours --enough to probably equal the cost of the computer though. Bummer that, but given it's going to be used a while, I would just consider that the "use tax", get it done and over with.
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Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
Chat in real time with other Propellerheads on IRC #propeller @ freenode.net
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
-Phil
Now here is the magic part. Take a backup copy of the VM image file that has your XP in it. This need not be so huge as it is only the size of the Windows files + whatever is installed, not the size of the entire disk space available to Windows.
Now, when Windows gets out of control just delete it and copy back the backup image. Bingo all clean and healthy again.
What happens to all my carefully crafted data in the messed up Windows image you ask?
No problem, you can set up a share in Windows that is actually a directory in the Debian host. So all your Windows files are safe.
I use Sun's Virtual Box to run XP like this. No dual booting hassles.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
I like the idea of a whole efficient OS for a PC being held entirely on a USB memory stick that gets booted from. Really clean. I want to try that, Potatohead.
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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
To be a free bird would be so glorious, but at such a drain on the people that are forging the Prop2 (BTW dont call it the P2, that one didn't make 1 year)
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Style and grace : Nil point
Sorry had no time to draw pictures on my idea of reversal move of BYTES/WORDS/LONGS - that give posiblity to mowe that data from one Long addres to other and in same time reverse BIT's order in one instruction.
That needs for rapid SERIALISING if data commes from any device that send LSB first and I ned it to be MSB first in COLECT Long.
BUT I have any other question ..... What about THAT at You delate from Prop II low frequency oscilator and istead WASTE 3 pins and ad POSIBLITY to add 32.xxx KHz crystal extern. That can give us pricise RTC clock for all type of Frequency/Periods masurements.
And In All programs that ned Correct Frequency from HIGH XTal oscilator ..... We can masure it with help of that TRC cklock and give it to program that need it.
USABLE ito set VGA work frequencies and other that things without KNOW what XTAL any one have used (Overklocked Prop II) can still RUN all on board Development programs without problems.
Regards
Christoffer J
My Linix experience has been a good one but I prefer Fedora.· I tried Ubuntu at first and found that the layout software that we·use is particular and initially designed to be optimized for·Red-Hat.· Since Fedora is clostest to·Red-Hat that has been the route I have taken.·· Because·we still are forced to use Windows my main system is a·native Linux boot (Fedora), and·I use Vmware to run·Windows on a dual head system in a way that one head is Linux, and the other head is Windows.· Because Vmware 'encapsulates' Windows I can maintain any problems that might creep·up with Windows a little easier this way.
If you wan't Chip, I can make·the latest Fedora install available on·the network·drive for you·to download.
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Beau Schwabe
IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
I can understand your frustration about your boot-up experience with the netbook. Why are you upset at MS instead of HP. It is HP that loaded all the software that was downrev and needed to update. They loaded all the trail versions of this and that. MS only supplied the OS. If Ubuntu or Linux or XYZ were mainstream then HP would be selling it and loading it down with all sorts of "Extra" software that they get be paid to put on the system so the SW vendors can hope to sell it to you at a later date. I don't have any love lost with MS but they are not the only cause of irritation with new computers.
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Searider
I bet an on-chip IDE would only take 1-2 months to develop.
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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
The computer gives me the same feeling these days that TV used to before we got rid of it. That was a liberating move. We just need a stable, commercial-free platform on which to access the web and work. The hardware's all there. It's just a software problem now.
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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Lots of talk about getting away from windows via Linux, I've tried Linux several times over the years but I seem to lack the knowledge of how to really use it. Bash, hash, terminals and various command line stuff - ugh. Great for those that know what to do with it but for me I am very happy with OS X. I'm sure I'll give it another go again sometime...
I think it was when I upgraded to Win98 that I got really impressed with how fast a program would start up. You could launch a program and before you could blink it would be up and running ready for input. Nowadays, the programming is so deep that even with GHZ processors the launching time is many times what it used to be. I get the feeling that the more speed and RAM that is available, the less "clever" the coding needs to be.
Parallax, please support OS X, and Linux.
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
If posible .... I will use On board Development with DUMB terminal only.
But to that need that RTC system I described ... That PROP II can always start with correct BAUD rates.
Eles can start VGA and TGB correctly with unspecified XTal I use ... Maybe lower maybe higher frequency as Specified form Parallax.
Regards
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Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
Don't guess - ask instead.
If you don't ask you won't know.
If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Sapieha
I'd be happy to wait a couple months for that! Especially if I can't have the OS X IDE.
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.
Be careful how you bad mouth the bloatware PC industry. It's what is keeping food on the table over here in Ohio. [noparse]:)[/noparse] Although I've been reasonably impressed by Win7, (At lease when compared to Vista) I wouldn't want it on a netbook. Bleh!
I've been temped to dump the XP install from my MSI wind unit and try the new Ubuntu, but honestly, the more features that Linux adds to make it work like Windoze, the more bloated like Windoze it becomes. Comparing my Ubuntu machine to my XP box in the same class, I don't see a lot of bonus one way or the other.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
Post Edited (Oldbitcollector) : 11/29/2009 1:31:48 AM GMT
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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
if you like the USB bootable linux idea, try the live CD's too - as someone earlier in this thread suggested. You can test drive a linux "distro" without buying the car (or the semi-tractor trailer in the case of Ubuntu or Windows [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Of course, they boot a little slow and create a RAM drive, so stuff is temporary. (You can set it up to write to your existing Windows C: drive too, but I wouldn't try that until you've got a few tests under your belt. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
RE Windows: the junk-ware (sorry OBC) that's on your new machine is not the fault of Windows per se - as several have noted - it was most likely add-ons offered to the vendor of the machine. A clean XP and Win7 install works rock solid. (Vista is a five letter word) I have / use many machines running XP and various WinServers - some have not been rebooted for months and are used heavily.
That little shield in the bottom right corner of the task bar can be stopped - but don't do it by killing the process from taskman, or you could dork your machines registry. The right way to do this is to turn the Windows update to manual and notify. That way, when updates are available, it lets you know - but you can choose 'expert' mode and decide what to take and what not to - the info about the individual updates is usually pretty clear.
In this respect, I see little difference between windows and linux update mechanisms. And as Phil mentions, if your linux distro goes belly up, you'll pay for that "free" OS with your time. Same with Windows - only a different set of headaches... in either case, we all often resort to 'slicking the disk' and starting over.
It's life with machines [noparse]:)[/noparse])
cheers
- Howard
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