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DVI Works! — Parallax Forums

DVI Works!

RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
edited 2009-11-16 03:14 in Propeller 1
I actually managed to get this DVI output test board working!

Made a mistake or two and have questionable color pin usage, but it works!

Gives rock-solid, full-screen display of the "VGA DEMO" on my flat panel monitor.

This means HDMI output is also possible.

All I really did here is add a TFP410 chip and modify the driver just a bit...

Update:· Decided to be lazy and revert to regular 6-bit color...· Here's a photo in regular colors:

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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm

Post Edited (Rayman) : 11/5/2009 7:18:24 PM GMT
DVI_WorksSmall.jpg
1424 x 1068 - 997K
6Bit_ColorSmall.jpg
1424 x 1068 - 1M
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Comments

  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2009-11-04 19:11
    Rayman,
    You are the man!!
    I can't wait to see HDMI too. I think that is a more common connection.

    Bean.

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  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-11-04 19:12
    Congrats Rayman [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    Looks great !

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  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-04 19:14
    Bean: There are cheap, passive cables to convert between DVI and HDMI...

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  • AJMAJM Posts: 171
    edited 2009-11-04 19:17
    Congrats Rayman!

    That is awesome
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-04 19:22
    BTW: One really strange thing (that I'm still trying to understand) is that my monitor didn't accept the signal until I dropped the pixel rate from 20_000_000 to 15_000_000...

    But, this is an out of spec VGA signal anyway... Going to try a more standard 1024x768 next...

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
  • Luis DigitalLuis Digital Posts: 371
    edited 2009-11-04 19:34
    Brain: We must prepare for tomorrow night.
    Pinky: Why? What are we going to do tomorrow night?
    Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky - try to take over the world!

    Congratulations Ray.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2009-11-04 19:39
    Rayman,

    Nice work! icon13.gif

    -Phil
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-04 19:44
    Wonder if I'll be brave enough to plug this into my $2000 TV....

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
  • nohabnohab Posts: 96
    edited 2009-11-04 19:57
    Definitely Very Impressive smile.gif
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-04 21:00
    Here's an interesting factiod...

    I have this replacement screen for a Sony laptop that didn't fix it's problem, so I still have it... Just looked at the connection this morning and was a little intrigued that the data connection was only 10 pins or so... Looked on the internet and found out that it's basically a DVI connection. So, in principle I could fire it up with a Propeller now... Or, I could have ripped the cuts out of the laptop and made a Prop laptop...

    After looking a·bit closer, I don't think it's really DVI...

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm

    Post Edited (Rayman) : 11/6/2009 1:37:53 PM GMT
  • IRobot2IRobot2 Posts: 164
    edited 2009-11-04 21:33
    @Rayman Making a prop laptop or a "PropTop" sounds like one of the coolest ideas I have heard of in a while. Think of the possibility of breaking out pins to what would have been active ports and such. This would be the ultimate mobile solution for taking your prop around! Awesome idea! I think I just found something to do this weekend...

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  • TheWizard65TheWizard65 Posts: 91
    edited 2009-11-05 02:06
    Way cool Ray, I have a few dead Laptops here I was planning on Ebaying, but looks like I'll get a better use out of them jumpin.gifhop.gif

    Please keep us posted
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-05 13:09
    I had planned to go for 8-bit color, but it looks harder than I thought to extend the VGA drivers to use more than 6-bits for color...

    That's because the video generator is also used to generate the VSync and HSync signals...

    Only way I see is to reconfigure the video generator on the fly... Need to see if this will really work... Might be easier just to live with 6-bit color...

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2009-11-05 13:15
    Rayman said...
    I had planned to go for 8-bit color, but it looks harder than I thought to extend the VGA drivers to use more than 6-bits for color...

    That's because the video generator is also used to generate the VSync and HSync signals...

    Only way I see is to reconfigure the video generator on the fly... Need to see if this will really work... Might be easier just to live with 6-bit color...

    Dumb question time, but if you get clever, can you sync the video generators in 2 cogs?

    Really nice work Ray, it looks fabulous [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-05 13:58
    I know you can because the XGA driver does it with 3 cogs and the UXGA in 4 cogs...
    But, do I really want to give up a cog?

    Think I'd rather live with 6-bit color than sacrafice another cog...

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2009-11-05 14:33
    Awesome work Rayman! I vote we knight thee "sir display wizard"

    As for the laptop thing, a buddy of mind who does laptop repair tells me that he is seeing
    some "standards" emerge (at least with 15" laptop screens). The idea of a "Proptop" might not
    be as distant an idea as many of us first thought.

    OBC

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  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-05 15:46
    I think I can still to the regular VGA DAC and send analog to the DVI connector too... Then, you can still use
    those little DVI-VGA adapters you get with video cards if you really wanted VGA...

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  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-05 15:48
    I just remembered that my sound system has HDMI input. This should be a safer way to connect to the TV...
    I can't imaging anything going wrong that would damage my TV, but I'm not going to risk it!

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2009-11-05 16:22
    Hello Ray, If you don't want to risk damage to your TV you might want to pickup one of the inexpensive HDMI switchboxes from MonoPrice.com I bought one of the 4-port versions (even has a remote) for under $30. You could probably even start out with a cheaper version. That way if something bad happens you may only toast the switchbox and not the expensive TV!

    The thing works better than I had expected. It allowed me to run a single cable from the flat panel TV over the fireplace and relocate the cable box, Xbox 360, etc to the basement. There is a 45' HDMI cable (just made it) going to the switchbox downstairs. I've got one available port and it would be cool to use that for a Propeller creation!

    I had been considering one of the composite to HDMI converter boxes as another option: http://sewelldirect.com/Composite-to-HDMI.asp

    Great Job on getting the DVI to work!

    Robert
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-05 16:41
    They do have a nice 2 port switch for $15... That's a good idea...

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-05 19:17
    So, I decided to punt and revert to 6-bit color... Added some more jumper wires and got the normal looking colors.
    Just uploaded a new photo to the top post...

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2009-11-05 19:32
    Off topic but my local electronics surplus store has boxes and boxes of laptop keyboards. Anyone know what is a good connector for the flexi PCB coming out of them? I was trying to probe one of them with a multimeter to figure out the connections but could never see any action between any of the tracks on the FBC whichever keys were pressed. Anyone know the connections?

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  • FlyingFishFingerFlyingFishFinger Posts: 461
    edited 2009-11-05 21:29
    I've got an old (pretty dead) Omnibook 4100 lying around. Wonder what sort of interface those screens use? I've never done any screen work, but seeing all these different displays starting to work by the hand of Rayman, would it be that far-fetched?

    Raf

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  • JRetSapDoogJRetSapDoog Posts: 954
    edited 2009-11-05 22:18
    @OBC: I wonder what standards are emerging. For lappies, LVDS (low-voltage differential signaling) interfacing seems quite popular (though perhaps there are different breeds of it), but I wonder what else might be emerging. I wonder what kind interface Ray's extra panel uses. Perhaps it uses a differential pair for each RGB color channel, with some some sysc lines. Anyway, a total of 10 pins is mighty nice! Much better than these 40- to 60-pin connectors we see for small displays, with seemingly no standards existing at all. So, if one designs a product with a particular display, and that display goes end-of-life, guess one has to redesign the board (unless one can reconfigure MPU pins in software). That makes me wonder if chips exists (perhaps with one-time programmable links/fuses) specifically to deal with such situations where connectivity might need to change in the future, perhaps something like a FPGA/CPLD but maybe simpler and just connecting inputs to outputs in any desired pattern (maybe like a crossbar?). Anywho, sure wish there was an entrenched standard similar to the way VGA is so ubiquitous (even if it's starting to wane). For the small screens, such as in cell phones, it seems that MIPI/DSI (Mobile Industry Processor Interface/Display Serial Interface) is/are starting to gain some traction, but, of course, it requires chips on both ends as the cost for the advantage of fewer wires. Makes me wonder why optical interlinks haven't become more popular. I'm wondering (and wandering) a lot this post, lol. Also makes me wonder if some kind of near-field radio link (over just 15-cm or so) could interconnect chips (no PCB required, lol, just power and ground). Okay, the optical connect is nearer on the horizon. Alternately, it would be great if we could just stack chips on top of each other all with a common built-in bus, Lego-like. Anyway, it seems we're getting to the point where the connectors cost more than the chips. But to refocus, my concern is: how does one design a product for a small screen and have any assurance that compatible displays will be available for it? Guess they just have to accept redesigning the PCB and/or software. Big companies can order hundreds of thousands or even millions of screens when they're pretty confident about the market. Another concern is licensing fees.·

    UPDATE:· Just to clarify, of course the pins of the Prop can be reconfigured in software to deal with changes in external connectivity.· But two problems arise:· [noparse][[/noparse]1] a group· of signals that used to be on adjacent pins might no longer be (which could lead to more involved software changes or, I think,·timing issues for time-critical code, such as "video" display code), and, [noparse][[/noparse]2] if different hardware versions of a product existed that used the pins differently, then multiple versions of the software would have to be available for users, adding complexity or possible confusion.· I realize that these issue don't affect most projects (and certainly not the one-off kind), but they might come into play on a commerical project (whether Propeller-based or not).· It's quite nice that the Prop supports TV and VGA basically out-of-the-box, because those are two·common standards.· I just wish that such standards or another were available and cheap on small displays.

    Post Edited (JRetSapDoog) : 11/6/2009 12:46:13 AM GMT
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-05 23:01
    Just ran into a major snag trying to get XGA (1024x768) to work... The default mode requires active low sync signals, which is impossible with multi-cog drivers...

    So, I need to either activate the I2C bus or use transistors to invert the sync signals [noparse]:([/noparse]

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  • OakGraphicsOakGraphics Posts: 202
    edited 2009-11-05 23:12
    Rayman said...
    Here's an interesting factiod...

    I have this replacement screen for a Sony laptop that didn't fix it's problem, so I still have it... Just looked at the connection this morning and was a little intrigued that the data connection was only 10 pins or so... Looked on the internet and found out that it's basically a DVI connection. So, in principle I could fire it up with a Propeller now... Or, I could have ripped the cuts out of the laptop and made a Prop laptop...

    What was the model number of your laptop / display? sounds interesting. smile.gif
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,646
    edited 2009-11-06 13:34
    I may have to retract that factoid remark...· I just looked again and I don't think it's real DVI...· It looks like a DVI connection at first glance, but I think it's different...

    Here's the datasheet for my panel:

    http://www.beyondinfinite.com/lcd/Library/Toshiba/LTD133EX2A.pdf

    The pinout is on page 14...

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  • AleAle Posts: 2,363
    edited 2009-11-06 16:06
    It is probably LVDS... yes, you need something like this to interface:www.national.com/mpf/DS/DS90C363B.html

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  • JRetSapDoogJRetSapDoog Posts: 954
    edited 2009-11-06 17:18
    Yeah, LVDS as Ale said based on pg. 12 of the schematic Ray provided. Boy, Ale has the goods with that LVDS transmitter chip! On the output side, it shows 8 output pins going to an LVDS panel: a differential pair for each RGB color and one pair for the clock [noparse][[/noparse]earlier, I believe I said sync (as in h-sync, v-sync), but such appears "integrated" into the clock]. Anyway, 8 or so lines sure beats 40 to 60! Will Ray now regroup, order the chip (if one can get it at a decent price for a small quantity) and fire up that unemployed panel? Or maybe rip the LVDS chip out of the lappie. No pressure; you're quite busy as it is (but if you do, do let us know).
  • AleAle Posts: 2,363
    edited 2009-11-06 19:21
    Those chips are cheap at some 4$ a piece. I also got a panel that needs LVDS out of an old Powerbook.

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