Antoine: Sorry, thought "Antoine" was your handle and "Ciao" was your name. I cannot speak any other languages, despite being taught both French & German at school - I was told I had to have them for electronics - what a crok! Anyway, my brother got the language genes - he speaks 7+ and he and his ex-wife write language school books [noparse]:)[/noparse]
I have routed the SI/SO to both sets of pins. Unfortunately one of them is topside and the other underside, so not that easy to cut unless you do so before soldering on the connectors. However, it is not necesary to connect all the pins (i.e. use a smaller plug/socket).
Back to topic:
Ale: Pcb has been routed except for some bypass caps and ground & power plane pours. Hopefully will complete over the w/e and off to manufacture. This WILL go to production in next few days, promise.
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This WILL go to production in next few days, promise.
Great to hear!
Also, very interesting to see the 'behind the scenes' work that goes into these designs, eg the the consideration of the optimum connection pinout given all the various boards out there. Having spent many hours brainstorming with Cluso, I must say that this is the sort of work that really makes it easy for the end user.
@Cluso PM - sorry it is proving difficult to get the Zicog Conference Mk3 working but I'm terribly busy with work at the moment. Most of my messages are sent from work computers in betweeen patients with heart attacks etc. I need more 'shed time'!
I'm looking forward to this little ramblade as I think it may be the smallest CP/M computer ever built. And I'll bet it also boots faster than Windows 7!
Drac: We are expecting return to Sydney then Brisbane mid-week.
Connector frozen as pictured in the spreadsheet above. Thanks for the idea of using the spreadsheet Antoine - really makes the options look easy - I had it scribbled on paper but this is so much more intuitive for others to understand. My problem is in conveying to others what I understand.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
Sorry, it has been a bit slower than I hoped. PCB done and I am about to order parts, so I need an estimate of how many bits to order as parts shipping is a major part of the cost to me.
Who is interested in an assembled PCB (prop, xtal, sram, eeprom, microSD socket), no connector or onboard voltage regulator - about US$30-40 + $5 shipping unregistered airmail ?
Who wants a microSD 1GB/2GB card preloaded with ZiCog & CPM2.2 US$20 ?
It is going to be tight to get it to you by Xmas but I will try.
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Ok for $65 + P&P to our Australian address. I am on standby in December and may have to go to Rickshaw country on 24hr notice to move an ARS !!
(Australian Registered Ship). Will PM and fix you up if I get the call.
Wow, the picotux is amazing ! We would have to buy the prop and sram in die form to get that small.
I could get to 1.3x0.9" (33x23mm) but we lose all the nice possible connections. Could get smaller with BGA and QFN. But, I have laid the pcb out to be hand soldered by competent solderers.
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Actually you still have both of them beaten because they don't have the disk storage capacity. The Xport Pro is only up to 16MB FLASH. Not to mention the lack of removable media.
So reckon RamBlade is still the smallest CP/M computer in the world.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Re "Awesome. Are we looking at the worlds smallest complete CP/M running computer?"
Yes, I think it will hold that record. I can't think of anything that comes close!
Re the mod for keyboard and TV - yes that would be awesome. There are more and more cost effective 'TV' option small screens out there too including the "second screen" for portable DVD players and displays that couple with security cameras.
Ale: LOL - I used to be able to solder 0402 parts. Now I am battling to see them [noparse]:([/noparse]
Drac: Peters LCDs (clock serial) are another option ( 20 chars x 8 lines) but it's 2 pins instead of 1-pin video.
One option I had was to use a 6pin Sot23 PIC10F2xx to do PS2 keyboard to 1 pin serial. Could use another PIC10F2xx to do 1 pin serial to clock serial conversion for the LCD. Otherwise use an 8 pin PIC or MC9RS08 for both keyboard and LCD to serial I/O.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
PCBs should be shipping to me any day now. All parts ordered today so eta (to me) late next week.
The xtal will be socketed. I will be including a 1x40 pin stakes so you can cut and make whatever connector you require. A 6.5MHz xtal will be included. I have ordered some other xtal values for testing. If 7.3728MHz (117.96MHz) or 13.5MHz (108MHz) work, I have a few extras of these (no promises).
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I spent a lot of time trying to get the decoupling and planes right to get the maximum overclocking possible.
BTW 6.5MHz (104MHz) is not to outdo the 6.25MHz (100MHz) but because the 6.5MHz xtals are readily available. In CPM or another OS, we are not concerned with an easy time base such as 10nS, but more with extracting any extra speed we can.
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25 years ago, I did R&D, designed, laid out the pc artwork for and tested prototypes for Auditronics, a Memphis audio manufacturer (Stax Records, anyone?). So I know good work when I see it, and you are one of handful of people in this forum doing professional layouts.
BTW if you have any questions in getting ZiCog to run on Morpheus please ask. The more platforms we can get running, the better leverage we will have in getting other o/s's running.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
I want to do some serious overclocking, but in a scientific way with reproduceable and systemic tests.
As stated, my platform testing is to be the Morpheus and Mem+ and breadboard combo.
Any suggestions, once I get a baseline CPM system running with Bill's help?
Cluso, can you give me a DigiKey or similar part number for the 7.3728MHz (117.96MHz) option?
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JMH
Post Edited (Mike Huselton) : 11/30/2009 5:52:36 PM GMT
With fast enough memory on Morpheus (and maybe requiring no Mem+ installed) I believe I can do 10ns bursts (not single long reads).
This is the reason I made my SOJ36DIP32 adapters [noparse]:)[/noparse]
With one Mem+ I think I can do 20ns per byte bursts - but I will have to run some tests.
Using a single cog, ie for LMM, the best I can do is 12 instructions per long (when not crossing page boundaries), or about 16 instructions for fully random address / fetch long.
Keeping track of the last page and testing for page crossing (on long boundaries) makes for 14 instructions in up to 98% of cases.
It would be fair to say than on Morpheus, XLMM will be roughly half the speed of LMM.
Cluso99 said...
Jazzed: 10nS access is not possible!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ www.mikronauts.com Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full Morpheusdual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory IO board kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
I think simple math proves that with a 10ns clock you need one clock pulse to "clock the data" which is going to be 2 instructions to go low then high and back down. Next you have to set up a new address which will take several instructions and repeat the clocking. If you want 4 bytes at a time you would have to read all the data from 4 byte wide srams = 32 bits - you are out of pins on a propeller. Seems like the laws of physics say this is not really possible especially for long accesses or am I missing something?
Comments
I have routed the SI/SO to both sets of pins. Unfortunately one of them is topside and the other underside, so not that easy to cut unless you do so before soldering on the connectors. However, it is not necesary to connect all the pins (i.e. use a smaller plug/socket).
Back to topic:
Ale: Pcb has been routed except for some bypass caps and ground & power plane pours. Hopefully will complete over the w/e and off to manufacture. This WILL go to production in next few days, promise.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Great to hear!
Also, very interesting to see the 'behind the scenes' work that goes into these designs, eg the the consideration of the optimum connection pinout given all the various boards out there. Having spent many hours brainstorming with Cluso, I must say that this is the sort of work that really makes it easy for the end user.
@Cluso PM - sorry it is proving difficult to get the Zicog Conference Mk3 working but I'm terribly busy with work at the moment. Most of my messages are sent from work computers in betweeen patients with heart attacks etc. I need more 'shed time'!
I'm looking forward to this little ramblade as I think it may be the smallest CP/M computer ever built. And I'll bet it also boots faster than Windows 7!
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www.smarthome.viviti.com/build
Code blue screen of death?
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lt's not particularly silly, is it?
Connector frozen as pictured in the spreadsheet above. Thanks for the idea of using the spreadsheet Antoine - really makes the options look easy - I had it scribbled on paper but this is so much more intuitive for others to understand. My problem is in conveying to others what I understand.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Who is interested in an assembled PCB (prop, xtal, sram, eeprom, microSD socket), no connector or onboard voltage regulator - about US$30-40 + $5 shipping unregistered airmail ?
Who wants a microSD 1GB/2GB card preloaded with ZiCog & CPM2.2 US$20 ?
It is going to be tight to get it to you by Xmas but I will try.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
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www.smarthome.viviti.com/build
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JMH
(Australian Registered Ship). Will PM and fix you up if I get the call.
Cheers
Ron
TrapperBob
Here·is a pic of the pcb.
·
I spent a lot of time designing the power and ground planes and decoupling. I am hoping to see big increases in overclocking - but no promises
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 11/20/2009 5:39:26 AM GMT
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 11/20/2009 10:11:09 AM GMT
We have a way to go before catching up with the worlds smallest Linux computer www.picotux.com/ 35mm x19 mm
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Post Edited (heater) : 11/20/2009 10:21:25 AM GMT
I could get to 1.3x0.9" (33x23mm) but we lose all the nice possible connections. Could get smaller with BGA and QFN. But, I have laid the pcb out to be hand soldered by competent solderers.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
There is also a new Xport Pro www.lantronix.com/device-networking/embedded-device-servers/xport-pro.html
Actually you still have both of them beaten because they don't have the disk storage capacity. The Xport Pro is only up to 16MB FLASH. Not to mention the lack of removable media.
So reckon RamBlade is still the smallest CP/M computer in the world.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
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Visit some of my articles at Propeller Wiki:
MATH on the propeller propeller.wikispaces.com/MATH
pPropQL: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
pPropQL020: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL020
OMU for the pPropQL/020 propeller.wikispaces.com/OMU
There will be a couple of cuts, wires and resistors, etc·for this to work, plus software.··
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Yes, I think it will hold that record. I can't think of anything that comes close!
Re the mod for keyboard and TV - yes that would be awesome. There are more and more cost effective 'TV' option small screens out there too including the "second screen" for portable DVD players and displays that couple with security cameras.
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www.smarthome.viviti.com/build
Post Edited (Dr_Acula) : 11/20/2009 12:36:01 PM GMT
Drac: Peters LCDs (clock serial) are another option ( 20 chars x 8 lines) but it's 2 pins instead of 1-pin video.
One option I had was to use a 6pin Sot23 PIC10F2xx to do PS2 keyboard to 1 pin serial. Could use another PIC10F2xx to do 1 pin serial to clock serial conversion for the LCD. Otherwise use an 8 pin PIC or MC9RS08 for both keyboard and LCD to serial I/O.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
PCBs should be shipping to me any day now. All parts ordered today so eta (to me) late next week.
The xtal will be socketed. I will be including a 1x40 pin stakes so you can cut and make whatever connector you require. A 6.5MHz xtal will be included. I have ordered some other xtal values for testing. If 7.3728MHz (117.96MHz) or 13.5MHz (108MHz) work, I have a few extras of these (no promises).
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Also, keep me informed on the overclocking 7.3728MHz (117.96MHz) results.
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JMH
Post Edited (Mike Huselton) : 11/30/2009 12:37:43 PM GMT
BTW 6.5MHz (104MHz) is not to outdo the 6.25MHz (100MHz) but because the 6.5MHz xtals are readily available. In CPM or another OS, we are not concerned with an easy time base such as 10nS, but more with extracting any extra speed we can.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
25 years ago, I did R&D, designed, laid out the pc artwork for and tested prototypes for Auditronics, a Memphis audio manufacturer (Stax Records, anyone?). So I know good work when I see it, and you are one of handful of people in this forum doing professional layouts.
Bravo!
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JMH
BTW if you have any questions in getting ZiCog to run on Morpheus please ask. The more platforms we can get running, the better leverage we will have in getting other o/s's running.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
As stated, my platform testing is to be the Morpheus and Mem+ and breadboard combo.
Any suggestions, once I get a baseline CPM system running with Bill's help?
Cluso, can you give me a DigiKey or similar part number for the 7.3728MHz (117.96MHz) option?
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JMH
Post Edited (Mike Huselton) : 11/30/2009 5:52:36 PM GMT
With fast enough memory on Morpheus (and maybe requiring no Mem+ installed) I believe I can do 10ns bursts (not single long reads).
This is the reason I made my SOJ36DIP32 adapters [noparse]:)[/noparse]
With one Mem+ I think I can do 20ns per byte bursts - but I will have to run some tests.
Using a single cog, ie for LMM, the best I can do is 12 instructions per long (when not crossing page boundaries), or about 16 instructions for fully random address / fetch long.
Keeping track of the last page and testing for page crossing (on long boundaries) makes for 14 instructions in up to 98% of cases.
It would be fair to say than on Morpheus, XLMM will be roughly half the speed of LMM.
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www.mikronauts.com Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full
Morpheusdual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory IO board kit $89.95, both kits $189.95
Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
I think simple math proves that with a 10ns clock you need one clock pulse to "clock the data" which is going to be 2 instructions to go low then high and back down. Next you have to set up a new address which will take several instructions and repeat the clocking. If you want 4 bytes at a time you would have to read all the data from 4 byte wide srams = 32 bits - you are out of pins on a propeller. Seems like the laws of physics say this is not really possible especially for long accesses or am I missing something?