Something similar to a logic stream is used in Learning Classifier Systems, where an input bit pattern, along with a "state" bit pattern, are matched against a set of patterns, or "classifiers", each with an output and influence on the next state. These have been around since the 1970s.
First of all... congratulations on getting this far. Most don't and I hope you guys are around for some time to come.
You don't have to be the sharpest chisel on the block to make a contribution and if you get your development environment out the door... at whatever price... that is a contribution.
Like others on this forum, I have deep reservations about anyone who invents his own language, refuses to define his terms and then criticizes others for being slightly above monkeys because they don't understand what he is trying to say... which Dr. Jim has come close to doing. Not quite yet... but very close.
I am also concerned about the lack of attribution of any kind and the claim that Dr. Jim never read the forum until ... well you know.
So... I did. Except I went to the digital version of the article posted in this thread... page three. And what I found was that essentially all of the information in second picture is already in the first picture. If you simply adjust the brightness and contrast you can see it. What isn't in the original is an edged detector.... of which there are a million and one.
My question is... what does this have to do with Dr. Jim's approach to AI or MI? Is Dr. Jim trying to say that if you dress up an edge detector right you can sell it to the military? Everybody knows that... you can just say it in English. No need be oblique about it. But if you think that the military actually spends $9600 for toilet seats... you don't know our military very well[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Dr. Jim has stated emphatically, to me at least, that his technology is not an edge detector and he dismisses edge detectors along with fuzzy logic, neural networks, and the like.
mallred said...
Dr. Jim has stated emphatically, to me at least, that his technology is not an edge detector and he dismisses edge detectors along with fuzzy logic, neural networks, and the like.
You haven't answered my question about that a couple of posts ago. I've actually asked it in two posts: how much better is Dr Jim's approach to an ANN approach for character recognition?
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
He is making some claims for which he ought to provide some proof. As I pointed out earlier, ANNs can be very successful, but he maintains that the results are poor and that his approach is much better. Where is the evidence?
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
mallred said...
I am as intelligent or more intelligent than most of you on this forum. We simply have different backgrounds. All I have to do is learn, and that is what I am best at.
@mallred - I know that most on this forum deject you. I am sorry for all the harm caused on you. Though your claims may be unrealistic, it is the choice of the buyer or onlooker to deside for himself whether he should believe it. I ask you to forgive the users of this forum for stating thier views outwardly and bringing fraud to your name. If you are a fraud, then they are right. If you are genuine, then they have given you a great injustice. It is thier chioce to deside whether to buy your products and perticipate in your project and support you, or to ignore you. They (I) should keep the rudest of thier comments to themselfs. Please forgive me and others for commenting agianst you in the past.
--Micro
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Computers are microcontrolled.
Robots are microcontrolled. I am microcontrolled.
But you·can·call me micro.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother.
I have changed my avatar so that I will no longer be confused with others who use generic avatars (and I'm more of a Prop head then a BS2 nut, anyway)
I'm making a special request that we simply let this subject rest, permanently. Contributors have had the opportunity to provide technical details and forum members have been able to make comments, and the discussion isn't progressing in a productive (or even fun) direction. It isn't necessary to continue pressing the Machine Intelligence company for details they are not going to provide. We're not talking about the usual stuff in this thread that we all like to discuss (LMM, BST, compilers, welcome newbies, ASM, applications, programming tricks, new boards, etc.) and the anonymity of many of us has provided more latitude for very comfortable free speech.
Our forums have been loosely managed and censorship isn't on our agenda, but I might consider locking this thread from further posts. Haven't done anything like that before at Parallax, especially in the presence of a customer base like this one.
It's not often that we make requests to our customers. The only other customer-oriented requests I have made in the past were for photos and descriptions of their projects. I don't think we've even made a sales call before. Therefore, I'd like to spend one of my favors and put this subject to rest with your support.
Sincerely,
Ken Gracey
P.S. Indeed, I posted the PDF and take responsibility for much of the excitement. Didn't think much about it before I posted it other than I hoped it would satisfy some prior requests for more information.
Guys... if Dr. Jim has a new idea... the idea doesn't really have to work to be important. If you put the whole thing together and it doesn't work... that's still important.
One of the things that Dr. Jim said was that working with the Prop is wonderful because you can get rid of other people's operating systems and work at the chip level. That is absolutely true... it is a very important fact and is one of the reasons that I chose the Prop for my own efforts. And if Dr. Jim has something that needs to operate at the machine level ... moving to the Prop makes perfect sense.
Dr. Jim has also described his current efforts as an attempt to put together a complete environment for his research...
That makes perfect sense, and he appears to be moving in that direction in a holistic way.
It sounds like Dr. Jim might have what I would call a "pragmatic filter," little streams of logic which he believes to be original. OK.. and as long as he didn't borrow it all and forget the attribution, he is home free.
Given an image, Dr. Jim's AI approach produces results that I cannot distinguish from mundane image processing. That's fine too... if it is true. Then we would have two choices... for our mundane image processing needs, we could either decide to use a mundane image processing routine... or we could teach one of Dr. Jim's robots to develop its own mundane image processing routine. Either way... the end result appears to be the same. The guy that would teach the robot would have to be an expert himself. So, what is the point? Why not just put the image processing system together and give it to the robot?
Dr. Jim is getting old. Getting old affects everything, including how you spend your time and respond to outside irritations... I can relate to that. Doctor Jim has rejected a lot major areas of work. That happens as you get older. I have rejected a lot of notions myself. I don't know how to reject line detection as Dr. Jim has done... since I am constantly seeking out the shortest path... but maybe Dr. Jim has found a better way to get from point A to point B.
Dr. Jim has been around long enough to suck young guys into calling him a fraud and then demonstrating that he is actually a nice guy and fairly honest. Of course he might not be doing that ... and he might not be exactly well... you know.
I don't know exactly what is going on with Dr. Jim... what I do know is that THIS has been a very interesting product roll out,
The brain most notices differences. Dr. Jim is different enough so that the differences are a little disturbing. In many important ways... he is just like everyone else.
To paraphrase a great American philosopher*... "Dr. Jim is like a box of chocolates..."
Comments
-Phil
First of all... congratulations on getting this far. Most don't and I hope you guys are around for some time to come.
You don't have to be the sharpest chisel on the block to make a contribution and if you get your development environment out the door... at whatever price... that is a contribution.
Like others on this forum, I have deep reservations about anyone who invents his own language, refuses to define his terms and then criticizes others for being slightly above monkeys because they don't understand what he is trying to say... which Dr. Jim has come close to doing. Not quite yet... but very close.
I am also concerned about the lack of attribution of any kind and the claim that Dr. Jim never read the forum until ... well you know.
Mallred said "Take a look at page 56 in the July issue of Robot Magazine http://www.machineinteltech.com/RobotMag7-09.pdf
So... I did. Except I went to the digital version of the article posted in this thread... page three. And what I found was that essentially all of the information in second picture is already in the first picture. If you simply adjust the brightness and contrast you can see it. What isn't in the original is an edged detector.... of which there are a million and one.
My question is... what does this have to do with Dr. Jim's approach to AI or MI? Is Dr. Jim trying to say that if you dress up an edge detector right you can sell it to the military? Everybody knows that... you can just say it in English. No need be oblique about it. But if you think that the military actually spends $9600 for toilet seats... you don't know our military very well[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Rich
Post Edited (rjo_) : 9/3/2009 1:28:53 PM GMT
I have been following the various threads related to Dr. Jim and your claims and have yet to see anything solid or substantial.
Claiming top secret this or that and now military references does not impress, what will it do next leap tall buildings in a single bound.
Enough with all the claims otherwise you and Jim will continue to be the subject of jokes in my office.
Just a passing thought.
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Caelum videre iussit, et erectos ad sidera tollere vultus
Certe, toto, sentio nos in kansate non iam adesse
You haven't answered my question about that a couple of posts ago. I've actually asked it in two posts: how much better is Dr Jim's approach to an ANN approach for character recognition?
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Post Edited (Leon) : 9/3/2009 6:08:52 PM GMT
You will have to ask Dr. Jim. I'm not going to take the time to do it.
I am not going to respond to every question posted. I will do what I can, but I will pick what I feel is most relevant to answer.
@Praxis
You will be better off waiting for the VR demonstrations then. I know I will not be able to help you before this demonstration.
Hopefully you will see the demonstrations as substantial evidence. When I say "you", I would like to broaden that to the entire forum.
Leon
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Post Edited (Leon) : 9/3/2009 7:25:17 PM GMT
http://mind.sourceforge.net/mind4th.html
According to that website has already been solved.
I guess we're all too late.
I have heard that joke too often.
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
Post Edited (localroger) : 9/4/2009 12:14:33 PM GMT
--Micro
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Computers are microcontrolled.
Robots are microcontrolled.
I am microcontrolled.
But you·can·call me micro.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother.
I have changed my avatar so that I will no longer be confused with others who use generic avatars (and I'm more of a Prop head then a BS2 nut, anyway)
I posted some real information just now on the Voice Rec Analasis posting. May like to see that.
I'm making a special request that we simply let this subject rest, permanently. Contributors have had the opportunity to provide technical details and forum members have been able to make comments, and the discussion isn't progressing in a productive (or even fun) direction. It isn't necessary to continue pressing the Machine Intelligence company for details they are not going to provide. We're not talking about the usual stuff in this thread that we all like to discuss (LMM, BST, compilers, welcome newbies, ASM, applications, programming tricks, new boards, etc.) and the anonymity of many of us has provided more latitude for very comfortable free speech.
Our forums have been loosely managed and censorship isn't on our agenda, but I might consider locking this thread from further posts. Haven't done anything like that before at Parallax, especially in the presence of a customer base like this one.
It's not often that we make requests to our customers. The only other customer-oriented requests I have made in the past were for photos and descriptions of their projects. I don't think we've even made a sales call before. Therefore, I'd like to spend one of my favors and put this subject to rest with your support.
Sincerely,
Ken Gracey
P.S. Indeed, I posted the PDF and take responsibility for much of the excitement. Didn't think much about it before I posted it other than I hoped it would satisfy some prior requests for more information.
Leon
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
I would direct your attention to my last post on the Voice Recognition Analysis thread.
Respectfully,
Mark
One of the things that Dr. Jim said was that working with the Prop is wonderful because you can get rid of other people's operating systems and work at the chip level. That is absolutely true... it is a very important fact and is one of the reasons that I chose the Prop for my own efforts. And if Dr. Jim has something that needs to operate at the machine level ... moving to the Prop makes perfect sense.
Dr. Jim has also described his current efforts as an attempt to put together a complete environment for his research...
That makes perfect sense, and he appears to be moving in that direction in a holistic way.
It sounds like Dr. Jim might have what I would call a "pragmatic filter," little streams of logic which he believes to be original. OK.. and as long as he didn't borrow it all and forget the attribution, he is home free.
Given an image, Dr. Jim's AI approach produces results that I cannot distinguish from mundane image processing. That's fine too... if it is true. Then we would have two choices... for our mundane image processing needs, we could either decide to use a mundane image processing routine... or we could teach one of Dr. Jim's robots to develop its own mundane image processing routine. Either way... the end result appears to be the same. The guy that would teach the robot would have to be an expert himself. So, what is the point? Why not just put the image processing system together and give it to the robot?
Dr. Jim is getting old. Getting old affects everything, including how you spend your time and respond to outside irritations... I can relate to that. Doctor Jim has rejected a lot major areas of work. That happens as you get older. I have rejected a lot of notions myself. I don't know how to reject line detection as Dr. Jim has done... since I am constantly seeking out the shortest path... but maybe Dr. Jim has found a better way to get from point A to point B.
Dr. Jim has been around long enough to suck young guys into calling him a fraud and then demonstrating that he is actually a nice guy and fairly honest. Of course he might not be doing that ... and he might not be exactly well... you know.
I don't know exactly what is going on with Dr. Jim... what I do know is that THIS has been a very interesting product roll out,
The brain most notices differences. Dr. Jim is different enough so that the differences are a little disturbing. In many important ways... he is just like everyone else.
To paraphrase a great American philosopher*... "Dr. Jim is like a box of chocolates..."
Rich
*F. Gump (1994)