PropScopes are running on the Assembleon Pick and Place today at Parallax. We're still waiting for the powder-coated cases to arrive, so my best guess right now is two weeks from today. We're closing in on the release date, and each subsequent day we're more accurate than the guess from the prior day.
Not very exact, I know, but I'll talk to the manufacturing manager and get specifics. Maybe I'll follow-up when I have more details.
Actually we need more people in our manufacturing department, especially ones who want to work extra hours [noparse]:)[/noparse] We've got a great team, but we're still subject to our own American culture, salaries, etc. Puts us in an immediate disadvantage in terms of cost in particular. Our staff earns 20-30x what an equivalent Asian manufacturer would earn and we work only Monday through Friday. If they don't get second shifts and Saturdays in China then they quit their jobs. Competing as an American manufacturer means you have to be more efficient, smarter, and have much shorter turnaround. The stakes are high these days, not just for companies that make car parts or heavy equipment. Our stuff could come from China just as easily, and indeed much of it does, but the core products are made right here in the USA. Our internal expectations doubled in the last year. Quality is one reason to build in the USA, but another is lead time reduction.
The right machine really helps, but to make it run all the time we need multiple people who have an intimate relationship with a piece of equipment. The P&P is so fast it could do a month's worth of work if it ran all day, so making it run all the time is a matter of setup, teardown, programming and finally. . . the fastest part. running it. Once it's spitting out populated boards we need to spend time on through-hole parts (hand assembly), testing, packaging, wow. It's a huge process. The machine helps, but there's so much more.
Come take a tour, anytime. No secrets around here and we learn from every visitor.
Please take a photo for me! It's been a long time coming- I'm so excited!
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Download a free trial of ViewPort- the premier visual debugger for the Propeller
Includes full debugger, simulated instruments, fuzzy logic, and OpenCV for computer vision. Now a Parallax Product!
Ken Gracey (Parallax) said...
Actually we need more people in our manufacturing department, especially ones who want to work extra hours [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Nick Mueller said...
> Where do I apply?
> I have all the experience you need!
If you fail to find that on their website, you're missing some skills and are not qualified. ))
Nick
Re:JOKE
I live in Minnesota, you think they'd pay for my moving and housing costs for a basic assembly position? SURE, i mean money is only paper and can be grown and printed *cough* BAILOUT
So I Read that the PropScope can only handle up to 10V? That is not much help in seeing the interference on my power supply that is running 12V and 24V.
It sounds like I need to invest into a real scope. I was hoping for more from the Propscope.
TheGrue said...
So Read that the PropScope can only handle up to 10V? That is no much help in seeing the interference on my power but that is running 12V and 24V.
Read the specs on some real scopes and you'll find they are pretty similar. It's why we have high impedance probes with switchable 10:1 dividers.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
lt's not particularly silly, is it?
The PropScope can most certainly handle more than 20V. It comes with switchable 1x/10x BNC Probes- if you were feeling adventurous you could buy 100x probes to measure into the kilovolts.
I believe you read the 10V limitation for the old Parallax scope that this is replacing- there's no comparison.
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Download a free trial of ViewPort- the premier visual debugger for the Propeller
Includes full debugger, simulated instruments, fuzzy logic, and OpenCV for computer vision. Now a Parallax Product!
I got the idea of 10V from the -10V to +10V in the catalog description. I see that it will handle 20V peak to peak maximum:
2009 Catalog PDF said...
NEW! PropScope USB -
#32220; See www.parallax.com
The PropScope is a two-channel oscilloscope that is
capable of reading 25 million samples per second with
ten bits of resolution over one, two, ten, or twenty volt
peak-to-peak waveforms. Power is provided through the
USB port requiring only a single cable to connect the
PropScope to any laptop or desktop PC. The built-in
expansion port allows additional capabilities and upgrades.
The included expansion card provides an analog trigger,
a four-bit digital trigger, an eight-bit digital to analog
converter, and a four-bit NTSC/PAL output. The included
software provides a traditional scope interface along with
auto measurements, a spectrum analyzer, and the ability
to store and export waveforms.
Features:
• 2 input channels
• 25 Msps Maximum Sample Rate
• 20 Vpp maximum input range
(-10 V to +10 V when DC-coupled)
• 10-bit input resolution over either the entire 20 Vpp
range, or selectable 10, 2, and 1 Vpp ranges.
• 1x/10x selectable probes
Included expansion card features:
• External analog trigger with a -10 to +10 V input range
• 4-bit digital input and trigger
• Arbitrary waveform generator with an 8-bit DAC and
selectable -1.5 to 1.5 and 0 to 4.9 voltage ranges
• 4-bit DAC for generating NTSC and PAL signals
Thanks for that- I'll work with Parallax to update that page.
The PropScope ships with two 1x/10x selectable probes. These are standard BNC probes that "attenuate" the signal with by 1x or 10x. On the 10x setting, the voltage range is 10x higher- still with 10bit resolution. You can buy 100x probes which attenuate a signal by 100x- which allows you to look at kilovolt signals.
Of course the input is nicely protected against over and under voltages- so if you do go over the limit the signal will be clipped and you won't hurt your PropScope.
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here), 12Blocks, the block-based programming environment
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
Current release date is in November, and I don't see why we won't be selling them before Thanksgiving.
I know, I know. We're very late on this one but it is fairly complex given the simplicity of the design. Most of the issues with releasing this product involve parts coming from multiple destinations (cases, probes, for example) and a first-time product run on our PnP machine. The manufacturing crew worked last Saturday to squeeze another day off the schedule, so your concerns about our delayed schedule have been heard.
Price still not determined, but "affordable". $200 has been the mark we've sought in the past, but it will be something over that price. That's up to Lauren to determine, not me (cough, cough). Given the daily deals she's been making and the reasonable prices of several of our newer products (X-Band Motion Detector, StingRay) I'm pretty sure the price will be reasonable. We'll see if she survives another year of employment after she announces the price. . .she's certainly spending your money as if it were her own in the meantime [noparse]:)[/noparse]
I may have missed this but I'll ask anyway what will the new Propscope's bandwidth (or Msps) be? I am in dire need of a scope but I need at least 200 MHz bandwidth.
Not only do x10 probes increase the maximum voltage allowed, they're better than x1 in almost every respect .. unless, of course you need a sensitive input !
Have a look at these specs for a low-end tektronix probe (expensive ones, unless they're active, aren't a lot different in this sort of area .. these are the fundamental limits of passive probe circuitry ).
It's called a 200MHz probe, but if you look at the detailed specs you find that in x1 mode it's only good for 6MHz. As well as that, it loads the circuit up with 100pF and 1M compared with 17pF and 10M in x10 mode.
You almost never want a x1 probe except for some small audio-type measurements on a fairly low-impedance source. I own about a dozen good quality probes : they're all x10 only. I do have a cheap x1/x10 somewhere but rarely use it.
Hi David,
Yes, as Andrey pointed out, sampling the ADC with multiple cogs is the key to getting fast sample rates. The tricky thing about the PropScope is that it shows you several screens worth of data BEFORE a complex trigger has fired.
If you just want to sample after a trigger event it becomes somewhat easier. My first post about ViewPort was an announcement that it could sample at 80Msps- more than 2 years ago [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here), 12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
thanks, Andrey and Hanno. I asked because I'd just bought a couple of TLC5540 40 mhz ADCs for a project where I need to sample a burst of data at about 5 mHz, and just starting to think about how to hook them up with the propeller. Then just after I'd knocked myself out sketching out a way that I thought would reach the 5 mHz, this thread listed the propscope specs at 50 mHz and I just about fell off my chair!
I was thinking of writing to hub RAM to have enough storage for a big burst of samples per trigger. Are your 40 and 25 mHz dual channel sampling rates both by writing bursts of ADC data to cog RAM?
Hi David,
I used the TLC5540 for a while as a frame grabber to do computer vision with the Propeller- this resulted in the "PropCV" module of ViewPort. Make sure you drive the adc with the required 5V clock- the Propeller's 3.3V only barely works- you'll get faulty results, especially when the digital representation changes dramatically as in 128..127. Took me ages to debug...
The PropScope samples at up to 25Msps into multiple cog ram's to store >1000 samples. ViewPort stores up to ~1500 samples into multiple cog ram's at up to 80msps.
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here), 12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
That is why I am asking for changing WR(BYTE|WORD|LONG) behavior in next Propeller. If we could transfer INA to main memory directly, 20 MSPS at 80 MHz clock and tens thousands bytes buffer could be achieved
I'll let Ken or David from Parallax share the good news...
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here), 12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
Then the propscope ist the wrong thing for you. It makes 25Msps (mega samples per second). And this means it's only good for 2,5 ... 5 MHz. Except it does some oversampling for repetitive signals.
Nick
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.: YADRO
Comments
Rigol makes low-end scopes for Agilent (was HP).
Leon
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Not very exact, I know, but I'll talk to the manufacturing manager and get specifics. Maybe I'll follow-up when I have more details.
Ken Gracey
Must replace a roomful of solder techs.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?"
The right machine really helps, but to make it run all the time we need multiple people who have an intimate relationship with a piece of equipment. The P&P is so fast it could do a month's worth of work if it ran all day, so making it run all the time is a matter of setup, teardown, programming and finally. . . the fastest part. running it. Once it's spitting out populated boards we need to spend time on through-hole parts (hand assembly), testing, packaging, wow. It's a huge process. The machine helps, but there's so much more.
Come take a tour, anytime. No secrets around here and we learn from every visitor.
Ken Gracey
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Download a free trial of ViewPort- the premier visual debugger for the Propeller
Includes full debugger, simulated instruments, fuzzy logic, and OpenCV for computer vision. Now a Parallax Product!
Where do I apply?
I have all the experience you need!
> I have all the experience you need!
If you fail to find that on their website, you're missing some skills and are not qualified.
Nick
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
Re:JOKE
I live in Minnesota, you think they'd pay for my moving and housing costs for a basic assembly position? SURE, i mean money is only paper and can be grown and printed *cough* BAILOUT
It sounds like I need to invest into a real scope. I was hoping for more from the Propscope.
Post Edited (TheGrue) : 10/17/2009 3:55:00 AM GMT
Read the specs on some real scopes and you'll find they are pretty similar. It's why we have high impedance probes with switchable 10:1 dividers.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
lt's not particularly silly, is it?
I believe you read the 10V limitation for the old Parallax scope that this is replacing- there's no comparison.
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Download a free trial of ViewPort- the premier visual debugger for the Propeller
Includes full debugger, simulated instruments, fuzzy logic, and OpenCV for computer vision. Now a Parallax Product!
The PropScope ships with two 1x/10x selectable probes. These are standard BNC probes that "attenuate" the signal with by 1x or 10x. On the 10x setting, the voltage range is 10x higher- still with 10bit resolution. You can buy 100x probes which attenuate a signal by 100x- which allows you to look at kilovolt signals.
Of course the input is nicely protected against over and under voltages- so if you do go over the limit the signal will be clipped and you won't hurt your PropScope.
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
I know, I know. We're very late on this one but it is fairly complex given the simplicity of the design. Most of the issues with releasing this product involve parts coming from multiple destinations (cases, probes, for example) and a first-time product run on our PnP machine. The manufacturing crew worked last Saturday to squeeze another day off the schedule, so your concerns about our delayed schedule have been heard.
Price still not determined, but "affordable". $200 has been the mark we've sought in the past, but it will be something over that price. That's up to Lauren to determine, not me (cough, cough). Given the daily deals she's been making and the reasonable prices of several of our newer products (X-Band Motion Detector, StingRay) I'm pretty sure the price will be reasonable. We'll see if she survives another year of employment after she announces the price. . .she's certainly spending your money as if it were her own in the meantime [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.
Thanks,
Jack
Have a look at these specs for a low-end tektronix probe (expensive ones, unless they're active, aren't a lot different in this sort of area .. these are the fundamental limits of passive probe circuitry ).
www2.tek.com/cmswpt/psdetails.lotr?ct=PS&ci=13418&cs=psu&lc=EN
It's called a 200MHz probe, but if you look at the detailed specs you find that in x1 mode it's only good for 6MHz. As well as that, it loads the circuit up with 100pF and 1M compared with 17pF and 10M in x10 mode.
You almost never want a x1 probe except for some small audio-type measurements on a fairly low-impedance source. I own about a dozen good quality probes : they're all x10 only. I do have a cheap x1/x10 somewhere but rarely use it.
Can I ask how it can sample so fast, or is it a secret?
Does it have a couple of fast ADCs write directly to RAM or something?
Actually, 25 MSPS is not the limit - I managed to achieve 40 MSPS at 80 MHZ system clock
Yes, as Andrey pointed out, sampling the ADC with multiple cogs is the key to getting fast sample rates. The tricky thing about the PropScope is that it shows you several screens worth of data BEFORE a complex trigger has fired.
If you just want to sample after a trigger event it becomes somewhat easier. My first post about ViewPort was an announcement that it could sample at 80Msps- more than 2 years ago [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
I was thinking of writing to hub RAM to have enough storage for a big burst of samples per trigger. Are your 40 and 25 mHz dual channel sampling rates both by writing bursts of ADC data to cog RAM?
I used the TLC5540 for a while as a frame grabber to do computer vision with the Propeller- this resulted in the "PropCV" module of ViewPort. Make sure you drive the adc with the required 5V clock- the Propeller's 3.3V only barely works- you'll get faulty results, especially when the digital representation changes dramatically as in 128..127. Took me ages to debug...
The PropScope samples at up to 25Msps into multiple cog ram's to store >1000 samples. ViewPort stores up to ~1500 samples into multiple cog ram's at up to 80msps.
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
No electrons were harmed while rendering this message.
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
Then the propscope ist the wrong thing for you. It makes 25Msps (mega samples per second). And this means it's only good for 2,5 ... 5 MHz. Except it does some oversampling for repetitive signals.
Nick
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
So, Ken or David, anything to share with us???