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Puzzling Problem-- Home-made Serial to Propeller — Parallax Forums

Puzzling Problem-- Home-made Serial to Propeller

VaatiVaati Posts: 712
edited 2009-04-28 20:42 in Propeller 1
I got a Propeller Development Pack (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/grab-a-designers-pack/36-submit-project/87-get-a-designers-kit.html), the Propeller chip, and the EEPROM about a week ago.· I intended to make a Serial to Propeller (http://www.parallax.com/Portals/0/Downloads/docs/prod/prop/SerialtoPropeller.pdf) with it.· The images of the circuit are in the following posts, as well as a discussion as to what is amiss.· I hope all who wish to do so post·their thoughts and opinions.

Thank you.

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Post Edited (Vaati) : 4/26/2009 10:10:04 PM GMT
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Comments

  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-04-23 16:27
    what is voltage in and out of 3.3v regulator.

    what is resistance between 3.3 and ground

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    Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 16:29
    Ummmm.....· Well, I know the Vout is 3.3 exactly, but...· the Vin is around·· 13v...· blush.gif·· That still doesn't explain why the prop isn't registering...

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  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2009-04-23 16:35
    Vaati, forum guideliens ask for a descriptive subject line. Your subject doesn't indicate what your post is about. I would recommend changing the subject line to refelct your issue. You can use the pencil icon located to the top right of the message.

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Engineering
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-04-23 16:37
    you measured? is the chip oriented correctly? any bad solder joints? prop plug in correctly?

    13v is why it is warm. if you have 3.3 there is no short. try measuring voltage at each 3.3 v pin on the pin.

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    Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 16:41
    I did do all of those things...· But, I'm not using a prop plug/clip; rather, a "home-brew" version using http://www.parallax.com/Portals/0/Downloads/docs/prod/prop/SerialtoPropeller.pdf.· I have it all correct, as I have prodded every hole of my circuit board with a multimeter.· I just have no clue what could be wrong...· Has anyone else made their own serial to prop before...?

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  • ProcessingData...ProcessingData... Posts: 208
    edited 2009-04-23 16:54
    I haven't made a serial to prop, but I did get the GadgetGangster Boards also. When I got my 3.3v regulator, (from Parallax) I plugged it into a Breadboard to test it. (Always a good idea!) It gave me 4.5v! I was feeding it 5v, and I've tried to feed it anything within it's range, but got back out what I was feeding it. (Which reminds me, I need to talk to Parallax about that...) Anyway, I'm suspecting it's the regulator. --.:ProcessingData...:.

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    Basic Stamp,···· Propeller,·· · SX,·· FUN!


    START:·
    >Proccessing Data. . . .··
    >Task Complete. . .·.
    >Saving Data. . . .
    >Entering SLEEP Mode. . . .
    >Signing OFF


    ·
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 16:58
    Huh..· well, I have the power LED for that, and it is always on.· As it is supplied with the 3.3v regulator, I would think that the regulator would be fine...· Also, I have completely prodded my Boss Board with a multimeter, and all the power is going to the right pins...· I will check the serial to prop ciruit again....· Do the unused pins of a serial port need to be grounded...?· I didn't ground them, so that may be it...

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2009-04-23 17:07
    @Vaati

    Is there any chance you could post a picture of top/bottom of the board?
    I expect that Nick will be responding to this thread soon, and it would
    help all of us if we could see your setup. (Perhaps spot something)

    As for grounding the unused serial lines, no don't do that. There should
    be a single ground connection that should be made. Does your homebrew
    prop-plug work on another board?

    OBC

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  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2009-04-23 17:12
    Yep, I use that circuit on my home made demo board style board which is a rats nest of wires. Here is how I would proceed:

    1. DO NOT PANIC. As it used to say in the front of my old Yamaha maintenance manual "Repair of Yamaha motorcycle requires great peace of mind". Better to build something one day, check it the next day and run it the third day.

    2. Check all your connections a few times, which I'm sure you have.

    3. Check all your connections again.

    4. Power the thing up and check power supply is correct in all the right places and NOT in any places it should not be. If you have a DIP Propeller in a socket it's as well to power up with the chip removed and check power comes to the correct pins and no others.

    5. You will want to know if any serial data arrives at the Prop from the PC. In the absence of an oscilloscope here is a good trick my dad taught me when I was a teen: Connect a small radio/PC speaker or some cheap headphones to the Props Rx pin via a capacitor say 1uF and send a pile of data from Hyperterminal or such on the PC. You should be able to hear if anything arrives at the Prop. If you have a LED and a resistor (1k say) you could try connecting that to see if anything comes.

    6. No idea about GadgetGangster boards but on my board I have a DIP Prop in a socket so I can remove the Prop and connect the Rx pin back round to the Tx and loop the data back to Hyperterminal. Again the headphone trick can be used to follow the signal back through the circuit.

    7. Check something is happening on the Props reset pin, a LED and a resistor are handy here.

    7. I first started my Prop with no crystal attached, the PropTool should still be able to find it.

    8. Come back when you have done all the above.

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  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-04-23 17:14
    1) 13V is high. You're dropping 10V in the regulator. I don't know how much current is being drawn, but even 100mA will cause power dissipation of 1W in the regulator.

    2) The RS232 to 3.3V TTL adapter you've cited does work most of the time. It's marginal in terms of the voltages supplied to the RS232 interface. The +3.3V works for many RS232 ports, but not all. RS232 also requires a source of negative voltage and the adapter uses DTR's idle voltage for that. Try your board with a different serial port if you can. Recheck you wiring and your cable.
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2009-04-23 17:14
    Oh yes. Are you using a USB to serial adapter do check that your OS has found the serial port correctly.

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  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 17:21
    Well, I used it with my ancient IBM thinkpad laptop as well as my Gateway desktop, and neither worked.· I am using just a plain ol' serial cable for both.· Does anyone think I just plain roasted my Prop...?·· (I hope not...)· I will get a pic of it posted shortly.

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  • MagIO2MagIO2 Posts: 2,243
    edited 2009-04-23 17:50
    Are you sure that your serial cable is a real serial cable and not a crossover cable?
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 17:53
    Yes, I am sure, as it is the same one I got in my WaM kit. :|

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  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2009-04-23 18:19
    13V sounds high, too. A multimeter would really help you to figure out what's going on. I doubt you've fried the chip, though.

    That or something is going on with your serial circuit. Older RS232 ports seem to be less accepting of 3.3v. Or you might have mis-wired something. Again, though, a multimeter would really help you to troubleshoot.

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  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 18:24
    Well, I need to double-check the datasheet for your 3.3v regulator.· I used a different wall-wart with an output of 10-something volts, and it still didn't work.· The regulator just keeps getting hot to the touch...· I will post·a pic next.· confused.gif

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  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-04-23 18:29
    have you tried heater suggestion of an led or speaker on the data ports?

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    Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 18:40
    Here are the pictures of the Boss board + the Full Board.· I am triple checking for "cold" solder joints now.

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  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2009-04-23 18:52
    You should check for activity on the Propeller P30, P31 and·RES* pin 11. Can't tell much from just one side of your RS232 adapter board.

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    --Steve


    Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230

    Post Edited (jazzed) : 4/23/2009 7:01:40 PM GMT
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 19:03
    P30: 2.73v
    P31: 3.27v
    Res: 3.22v

    I think that's exactly what I got, so...

    Is that good or bad?

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  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2009-04-23 19:16
    All of those are within the Prop's restrictions, but did you ever check to make sure that the wall transformer is emitting DC? What are the milliamps on it?

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  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2009-04-23 19:26
    Activity means the states toggle when you try to ID the device. You can check this by clip an LED anode to a P31 and cathode to GND for example (maybe a 100Ohm resistor in series with the LED to prevent a burn-out). If the LED flashes, then there is activity. You should post a pic of the bottom of your RS232 board.

    Added: Static voltage measurements you provided do not give much useful information.

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    --Steve


    Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230

    Post Edited (jazzed) : 4/23/2009 7:40:26 PM GMT
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 19:27
    It is 1000 mA for the 10-something one, and the 13-something wall-wart is 300 mA.

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  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 19:42
    Well, I tried the LED idea, and instead of blinking, it just stayed lit up...· I also attached a pic of the bottom of the home-brew prop-plug.· I hope it helps...

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  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2009-04-23 19:48
    Minimally, you need DB-9 pin 5 connected to GND on the protoboard.
    What is connected to pin 1 (square pin)?

    I'll post other problems if I see them.

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    --Steve


    Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2009-04-23 19:48
    If it just stayed lit up.. Then there must be a problem with the Serial prop plug. I will examine the circut to see if I can find any errors.

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    Toys are microcontroled.
    Robots are microcontroled.
    I am microcontrolled.
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 19:50
    Thanks--· That narrows it down a LOT!· I am hoping to get this resolved by tonight, so I can get programming tomorrow...· burger.gif

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  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-04-23 20:00
    YAY!!!· I figured it out!!!· The 4th pin of the serial port has a jumper leading to a row with nothing else connected to it!· I just need to jump that over to the cap and then I'll post if it works or not.· burger.giflol.gifsmurf.gif

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  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2009-04-23 20:05
    So the DB9 pin counting is reverse? Otherwise, looks like you have GND on 1, DTR (nothing) on 2, and TX/RX on 3 and 4.

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    --Steve


    Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
  • FearTurtlesFearTurtles Posts: 89
    edited 2009-04-23 20:10
    Well I see two possible solder bridges on 14-af to 14-ae and 14-ac to 14-ab. on the propplug. A good idea on the componet side of the board is to draw out the used trace lines that are used below. This makes it easier to see and understand the circuit. For the most part you solder joints look solid enough. The green jumper looks to me like it just dead ends on the AC trace line. I don't see anything connected to it unless you intended to use that solder bridge from the AC trace to the AB. In that case check to make sure it is a good bridge. Over all I don't think anything is wrong with the Propeller chip. I would see about getting something like a 6v power supply for it just to keep the heat down or put a heatsink on the regulator. I will keep looking at this but these boards are hard to follow at times.
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