Be good if you sat down down with a beginner and watched them walk through the entire book and also gave a copy to a couple of beginners and asked them to make notes of what they had trouble with ? Would be challenging in some ways if you understand completely a subject and are writing to an audience that knows very little. At some point it would be hard acknowledging./seeing your own assumptions?
_Spinner:
You will recall that a lot was put on this discussion board about a year ago so I do have an idea about what is going on but I don't think it will be possible to go through the scenario you have described considering the deadlines we are working under. If we had the time it would be the best way to do it, I agree.
Thanks for the input
HSS
this is my first post realy on any forum so if I make some sort of breach of netiquet I appolagise in advance.
im a real newbee when it comes to the prop. Ive beeing playing around with the stamp2 on and off for about 10 years, I havent done any study in computers or micros, all that I know is picked up over the years from hobyest tinkering.
my goal now is to build bigger and better robots.
well now you know where im coming from you will understand where im going with this.·Im about half way though the "labs: funsamemtals" ·book and just started writing my own code and using other ppls objects.
I found this book very heavy going and had to go though it twice for enough of the imfo to sink in to be able to start using it. Oddy when I started reading about the stamps it was all easy going, only had to read it once sort of thing.
This is because the stamp books are mostly written in a sort of "stamps for idiots" format
so I completely agree with what SRLM said, if you wrote the sort of book he is describing I would rush out and buy it yesterday!
SRLM said...
Personally, I think a 'beginners' book should start with the basics (variables, hello world, etc.) and end with some really advanced stuff (PID control, video generation, advanced mathematics, fuzzy logic, A/D). Give enough information in the begining to create a solid foundation, and the more advanced topics to give a footing in order to get started. Also, as a beginners book, I like them when about half is code, and half is theory. Anybody can find code out there to do what they want, or near enough. But if you don't understand why it works the way that it does, then you'll end up worse off then before.
Anyway, some topics that I would like to see addressed in published Propeller books:
Objects vs. Cogs
Inter-cog/Inter-object communication
Spin vs. Assembly and interpretation of each
Propeller Standard Library (most common objects in the obex, and their methods with parameters and the like.)
Step by step of interfacing with a chip (look at data sheet, find communication protocol, write code to fit)
Image analysis
Using Assembly for the Spin developer (not a assembly tutorial, rather a cut and paste type thing...)
DOH!!! ······· hey! sorry about that I didnt read the dates on the tops of the posts or all the posts! just saw one I agreed with and put in my 2 cents worth. Anyway, keep up the good work writing books about the prop chip. keep em' coming
I have turned the finished manuscript in to McGraw Hill
Next it goes to the editors and the resolution by me
I'd say 3 months to so to availability
Amazon is accepting orders
HSS
Harprit said...
I am in the process of writing a book on the Propeller for absolute beginners
I sincerely welcome your corrections suggestions and criticisms
Noble quest!· Here are my comments for the beginner.
Your opening comments do not point out where the program begins (ie, first PUB method)
Your method PUB START does not use the double ('') comment, to tell user "micro starts running here". ·I see no mention (maybe its in lesson 2) of the use of the single and double comment char for comments.
PUB Start '' <--- Program begins execution here (first pub method)
Mention the IDE feature of the documentation button and the effect it has on various comments and curley braces.
dira [noparse][[/noparse]pin]~~ {sets pin 16 to an output line}
Is a beginner going to know what (~~) effect this has?· Does he even know [noparse][[/noparse]pin] is an I/O pin address?
How much is OK to assume?· Does he know 'dira' is a reserved word and the effect it has on the propeller?
repeat blink_count {specifies how may times to repeat}
turnOn_the_LED {these 4 subroutines care called by name alone}
Is the reader able to tell 'repeat' is a reserved word for structured loops?· Do you mention somewhere indentation matters in this micro-controller language?· And what about the IDE's ability to graphically illistrate the·statements belonging to·a structure? ·
I was delighted to know that you had a successful project.
I had to turn the volume down to keep is from driving me nuts as I developed the code!
Thus the larger resistor on the transistor.
Hopefully the book will be supplemented with the manual for the Prop. The book is some 300 pages
and I did the best I could in that much space. Beginners are beginners and some of the items you
have mentioned are, I think, a bit beyond what the book covers. Lets see how it goes once it is
actually available to the public. Lets see what they say. The initial comments on this forum were
encouraging and I tried to serve the needs of that crowd in the book in that they were the ones
that responded. You may find Andrew's comments above interesting. He seems to have had minimal
problems building his metronome. I hope that will be the way it goes for others.
Hopefully the book will be supplemented with the manual for the Prop. The book is some 300 pages
and I did the best I could in that much space.
May I say "I'm Sorry" for coming off with any attitude!· I was hoping a good book wood emerge from your efforts.· And perhaps it has, and I'm just unaware of it?
Having purchased my propeller at christmas, it was fresh in my mind (all the frustration, I mean).· I'm fortunate that I purchased the Basic Stamp kit first.
The book "What is a micro controller" was the perfect merge of concept text with IDE software and the Basic Stamp Hardware!· That's really important to me (maybe others too).· With the book as my guide, I was able to put all of the projects together, run them, modify them and then own them (mentally) and tuck it away as usefull information.
With the propeller ... It was the complete opposite!· If it had not been for this forum, I would have been completely stalled!· I wont bother to recap the learning process I had to waid through.· We all have our crosses to bear.
But on a positive note ... since I had to take a really active role in my education, I was forced to 'search' as well as 'learn' the propeller concepts.· And to that end, I have really come to enjoy the whole experience!· And I think that is a greater benefit in the long run.· But I must admit, I was frustrated to the extreme in the beginning.
@BuildThings, I tried your link .. but my browser came back with a·'blank' page. ·
If you intend to write the PID algorithm like in the Small motors book, everyone will understand. The way you provide the information about the I and D parts it's plain simple and I must say, english is not my native language.
Sorry, after looking at the table of contents it looks like it will not be there.
I have two of your books for PICs (the instruments and small motors), if the format it's similar, you'll get a lot of good reviews.
I'm a PIC person myself, coming from assembly-->PicBasic Pro-->PICC, and now looking to move to PIC24/30-33 or the Propeller; I must confess that I'm having a little problem with the "multicore-no interrupts" concept.
I have books on Microchip's part, but only have the Official Guide to the propeller by the guys at Parallax. Had it in January if I recall correctly and have not had the time to test it (now i have a propeller chip and started testing the second chapter) but another book it's always welcome, and if it's from you, it'll be ok.
The table of contents is s bit out of date now
The book does show you how to set up s PID loop in a Propeller environment
I look forward to your review of the book since you already have my other
two micro books
Here it is from my originals, there may be slight changes
Part 1
The Propeller/Spin system.
Introduction for the beginner
Before we can start doing things with the Propeller, we need to have an understanding of exactly what we have to work with. Once we understand the Propeller hardware and a bit about the Spin software we can proceed with our experiments and develop the software needed to execute them.
1 General introduction
2 Propeller chip
3 Hardware and software set up
4 Propeller tool environment
5 The various Propeller memories
6 Why and how of shared memory and shared variables
7 Understanding one Cog
8 The 8 Cogs
9 Special terms and ideas
10 The Spin language
11 Tasks that are suited to parallel processing
Part 2. Input and Output,
The basic techniques to be mastered.
Learning by doing.
Though the idea is loosing currency in today’s academic world, we learn best by doing. It works best when the hands, the eyes and the brain work together to reinforce one another. With this in mind we will proceed with undertaking a number of progressively difficult experiments that lend themselves to implementation on the Propeller system. In this part of the book we will develop the basic techniques necessary to use the Propeller to address any number of real world situations. In part Three of the book we will use what we have learned here to create some real world devices. Here, we are mastering the building blocks. A Chapter is assigned to each of the following
Chapter 12. General discussion of input/output
Chapter 13. Binary pulsing
Chapter 14. Setting up the LCD so we can get started
Chapter 15. Binary I/O
Chapter 16. Read a potentiometer.
Chapter 17. Reading and creating frequencies
Chapter 18. Creating pulse sequences
Chapter 19. Reading and creating pulse widths
Part 3
The Projects: Using the basics.
“Real World” learning by doing.
Chapter 19 Using seven segment displays
Chapter 20 Metronomes
Chapter 21 2 X 16 Liquid Crystal Displays in detail
Chapter 22 R/C Servos
Chapter 23 Motors prelim discussion
Chapter 24 Motor amplifiers
Chapter 25 Small DC motors
Chapter 26 Stepper motors
Chapter 27 Using a gravity sensor to create a self leveling table
Chapter 28 Running a DC motor with an incremental optical encoder
Chapter 29 Using Solid State Relays
Flip the pages and found the PID explanation similar to the motor control book for PICs.
Will start reading tomorrow and will keep you updated.......getting fired up with the Propeller and hopefully the expo; that is of course if the USA council grants me permission to go beyond San Diego
Markov, aka The Goat, took hard look at your earlier books (above) on the Amazon plate and forked over referenced websites, opting not to consume either based on bland reviews. Was disappointing really because Markov is very interested in the topics (but not what was it: PBasic? and else the expensive marginal hardware req'd to follow along). I read your gessalty rebuttal to posted reviews (Amazon) and you didn't seem to disgest feedback well then but ... anyway, well really, would rather you wrote revised editions of those making them more accessible rather than what you are doing. You may have other professional reasons for seeking publication of any kind; howsomeever, Markov suggests to all that someone having trouble with Prop/Spin with what is already out there in print and on the web/forum would problably do much better attending a class/workshop than buying more books as interaction is the much better way to prime your new pumps. Am somewhat surprised there are not more workshops being organized and offered by Parallax and some of the pro-Spin hounds hiking traces of their marks on the Forum's posts.
Comments
You will recall that a lot was put on this discussion board about a year ago so I do have an idea about what is going on but I don't think it will be possible to go through the scenario you have described considering the deadlines we are working under. If we had the time it would be the best way to do it, I agree.
Thanks for the input
HSS
Search under Harprit Sandhu Propeller
HSS
······· hey! sorry about that I didnt read the dates on the tops of the posts or all the posts! just saw one I agreed with and put in my 2 cents worth. Anyway, keep up the good work writing books about the prop chip. keep em' coming
Tim
HSS
Next it goes to the editors and the resolution by me
I'd say 3 months to so to availability
Amazon is accepting orders
HSS
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=890107
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Andrew Williams
WBA Consulting
WBA-TH1M Sensirion SHT11 Module
Special Olympics Polar Bear Plunge, Mar 20, 2010
Your opening comments do not point out where the program begins (ie, first PUB method)
Your method PUB START does not use the double ('') comment, to tell user "micro starts running here". ·I see no mention (maybe its in lesson 2) of the use of the single and double comment char for comments.
Mention the IDE feature of the documentation button and the effect it has on various comments and curley braces.
dira [noparse][[/noparse]pin]~~ {sets pin 16 to an output line}Is a beginner going to know what (~~) effect this has?· Does he even know [noparse][[/noparse]pin] is an I/O pin address?
How much is OK to assume?· Does he know 'dira' is a reserved word and the effect it has on the propeller?
repeat blink_count {specifies how may times to repeat} turnOn_the_LED {these 4 subroutines care called by name alone}Is the reader able to tell 'repeat' is a reserved word for structured loops?· Do you mention somewhere indentation matters in this micro-controller language?· And what about the IDE's ability to graphically illistrate the·statements belonging to·a structure?
·
http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Propeller-Spin-Beginners-Processing/dp/0071716661/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268692108&sr=1-4
Looks like its already at the presses
I was delighted to know that you had a successful project.
I had to turn the volume down to keep is from driving me nuts as I developed the code!
Thus the larger resistor on the transistor.
HSS
Hopefully the book will be supplemented with the manual for the Prop. The book is some 300 pages
and I did the best I could in that much space. Beginners are beginners and some of the items you
have mentioned are, I think, a bit beyond what the book covers. Lets see how it goes once it is
actually available to the public. Lets see what they say. The initial comments on this forum were
encouraging and I tried to serve the needs of that crowd in the book in that they were the ones
that responded. You may find Andrew's comments above interesting. He seems to have had minimal
problems building his metronome. I hope that will be the way it goes for others.
Thanks for you comments
HSS
Having purchased my propeller at christmas, it was fresh in my mind (all the frustration, I mean).· I'm fortunate that I purchased the Basic Stamp kit first.
The book "What is a micro controller" was the perfect merge of concept text with IDE software and the Basic Stamp Hardware!· That's really important to me (maybe others too).· With the book as my guide, I was able to put all of the projects together, run them, modify them and then own them (mentally) and tuck it away as usefull information.
With the propeller ... It was the complete opposite!· If it had not been for this forum, I would have been completely stalled!· I wont bother to recap the learning process I had to waid through.· We all have our crosses to bear.
But on a positive note ... since I had to take a really active role in my education, I was forced to 'search' as well as 'learn' the propeller concepts.· And to that end, I have really come to enjoy the whole experience!· And I think that is a greater benefit in the long run.· But I must admit, I was frustrated to the extreme in the beginning.
@BuildThings, I tried your link .. but my browser came back with a·'blank' page.
·
Try the 5 or 6 experiments that were posted by me on the beginners book forum
They might get you off dead center
HSS
Hope it is ready before June!
Robert
If you intend to write the PID algorithm like in the Small motors book, everyone will understand. The way you provide the information about the I and D parts it's plain simple and I must say, english is not my native language.
Sorry, after looking at the table of contents it looks like it will not be there.
I have two of your books for PICs (the instruments and small motors), if the format it's similar, you'll get a lot of good reviews.
I'm a PIC person myself, coming from assembly-->PicBasic Pro-->PICC, and now looking to move to PIC24/30-33 or the Propeller; I must confess that I'm having a little problem with the "multicore-no interrupts" concept.
I have books on Microchip's part, but only have the Official Guide to the propeller by the guys at Parallax. Had it in January if I recall correctly and have not had the time to test it (now i have a propeller chip and started testing the second chapter) but another book it's always welcome, and if it's from you, it'll be ok.
This is the link for the book (pre-ordered with the Official guide by Parallax but it came first than yours) if anyone is interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Propeller-Spin-Beginners-Processing/dp/0071716661/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_1
EDIT: a lot of editing, my english is very rusty
Post Edited (MCR) : 5/22/2010 5:21:21 PM GMT
The table of contents is s bit out of date now
The book does show you how to set up s PID loop in a Propeller environment
I look forward to your review of the book since you already have my other
two micro books
Thanks for the kind comments
HSS
Could you please post the updated ToC? And as far as you know, is the release still scheduled for the end of June?
Thanks,
Robert
Part 1
The Propeller/Spin system.
Introduction for the beginner
Before we can start doing things with the Propeller, we need to have an understanding of exactly what we have to work with. Once we understand the Propeller hardware and a bit about the Spin software we can proceed with our experiments and develop the software needed to execute them.
1 General introduction
2 Propeller chip
3 Hardware and software set up
4 Propeller tool environment
5 The various Propeller memories
6 Why and how of shared memory and shared variables
7 Understanding one Cog
8 The 8 Cogs
9 Special terms and ideas
10 The Spin language
11 Tasks that are suited to parallel processing
Part 2. Input and Output,
The basic techniques to be mastered.
Learning by doing.
Though the idea is loosing currency in today’s academic world, we learn best by doing. It works best when the hands, the eyes and the brain work together to reinforce one another. With this in mind we will proceed with undertaking a number of progressively difficult experiments that lend themselves to implementation on the Propeller system. In this part of the book we will develop the basic techniques necessary to use the Propeller to address any number of real world situations. In part Three of the book we will use what we have learned here to create some real world devices. Here, we are mastering the building blocks. A Chapter is assigned to each of the following
Chapter 12. General discussion of input/output
Chapter 13. Binary pulsing
Chapter 14. Setting up the LCD so we can get started
Chapter 15. Binary I/O
Chapter 16. Read a potentiometer.
Chapter 17. Reading and creating frequencies
Chapter 18. Creating pulse sequences
Chapter 19. Reading and creating pulse widths
Part 3
The Projects: Using the basics.
“Real World” learning by doing.
Chapter 19 Using seven segment displays
Chapter 20 Metronomes
Chapter 21 2 X 16 Liquid Crystal Displays in detail
Chapter 22 R/C Servos
Chapter 23 Motors prelim discussion
Chapter 24 Motor amplifiers
Chapter 25 Small DC motors
Chapter 26 Stepper motors
Chapter 27 Using a gravity sensor to create a self leveling table
Chapter 28 Running a DC motor with an incremental optical encoder
Chapter 29 Using Solid State Relays
Harprit
I've been done for some time now.
HSS
ToC looks great. Thanks for the update.
Robert
Let a coin be struck!
Book is in my hands!
Learn, Enjoy, Teach.
and most importantly...
Send in your reviews!
Harprit
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I always have someone watching my back.
Flip the pages and found the PID explanation similar to the motor control book for PICs.
Will start reading tomorrow and will keep you updated.......getting fired up with the Propeller and hopefully the expo; that is of course if the USA council grants me permission to go beyond San Diego
No video generation
PS: Poor goats.
Harprit
Looking forward to this very much - thanks Harprit.
I very much look forward to your reaction to my book
Harprit