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Parallax SX Price Increase — Parallax Forums

Parallax SX Price Increase

Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,403
edited 2008-11-29 14:37 in General Discussion
Dear Customers,

Parallax has been presented with a non-negotiable increase in our SX wafer costs. Please read the attached PDF for a complete explanation regarding the timing of this increase.·You will notice that·we have extended the lower prices for several weeks (but even these prices are slightly higher than our prices a week ago due to an unfavorable change in our payment terms), and in·December the prices increase substantially.··

I have done everything possible to continue to lower the SX's costs for many years.·This time·we have no option but to increase our prices. We are concerned·for our customers, both hobbyist and commercial, and we are trying our best to·keep everybody's interests·under consideration.

If you have any questions, comments or criticism, you·are welcome to post them here on our forums or contact me personally.

Sincerely,

Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
pdf
pdf
SX Price Increase Notification.pdf
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Comments

  • SteelSteel Posts: 313
    edited 2008-11-19 23:54
    Chip-

    Im sorry that this happened.

    Wow. The new prices are comparable with other controllers that have a lot of built-in peripherals.

    I do hope the best for the SX line, as this price does push into an area of financial discomfort.

    It is very unfortunate position to be in. Is there anything that can be done (second sourcing wafers, etc)?
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,403
    edited 2008-11-20 00:37
    Steel,

    We do not control the wafer source - Ubicom does. I've looked at all alternatives our team could think of as a solution to this problem. Unless we've missed something there are no options for Parallax and our customers.

    Ken Gracey
    Parallax, Inc.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2008-11-20 00:53
    And the Daily Deal today (11/19) is: the SX_Blitz_USB.·

    The SX protoboards are still $10 (honk, honk).
  • VelocitVelocit Posts: 119
    edited 2008-11-20 01:19
    If these new prices are lower than what they were in 1999, do you foresee them ever coming down again in the future?

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  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2008-11-20 01:50
    Ken,
    I was wondering how long the low prices would last.

    At least we have some warning and can "stock-up" on chips before the prices go up.

    I hope customers will consider the support provided for the SX and see the "value" and not just look at the cost.

    Bean.

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    "The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants." ~ Camus
    www.iElectronicDesigns.com

    ·
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2008-11-20 01:56
    Even at the new price the SX processors are great chips and when you factor in tools like SX/B (Thanks Bean!) it is still a good value.

    My wife was wondering what to put in my stocking this Christmas and I guess I can tell here to order some SX chips before the increase.

    I've never had tubes of chips sticking out of the stocking by the fireplace but I like the idea!

    Robert
  • Mike CookMike Cook Posts: 829
    edited 2008-11-20 02:42
    Oh boy time to clean out www.mouser.com again for $9.95 SX ProtoBoards!
    I'll bet those boards will go up! Too good of a value to not have on hand. burger.gif

    <EDIT>
    7 sx28 & 9 sx48's on the way.........., wish www.mouser.com would do Parallax's deal of the day!

    ·Bean: Keep Plugging away at SX/B 2.x, great effort (You, Jon, Peter, and the rest of the group), but for my use I have not found any issues yet!

    </EDIT>

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    Mike

    Post Edited (Mike Cook) : 11/20/2008 3:13:51 AM GMT
  • william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
    edited 2008-11-20 02:51
    .... and I thought the current theme worldwide is deflation....

    Doesn't Parallax have some kind of long term agreement with Ubicom?

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  • Shawn LoweShawn Lowe Posts: 635
    edited 2008-11-20 03:39
    I agree with you bean. At first the price increase is disheartening. But when I think of the support I get from parallax.......I'm OK with the increase. (Note- I'm just a hobbiest. If I had a business using these, it might be more of an issue. I know ken has no choice)

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    Shawn Lowe


    When all else fails.....procrastinate!
  • ZootZoot Posts: 2,227
    edited 2008-11-20 14:48
    Since the SX is it at the core of most of the BASIC Stamps, would we expect to see a concomitant increase in the price of Stamps as well?

    This is unfortunate.... < $3 was sort of my "magic" price point at which I basically considered the SX "free".... > $4 not so.... good thing I'm not making 1000s of boards....

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  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2008-11-20 15:18
    A small increase in price is much better than finding out there is some issue with the supply of the chips. Does everything still look good for the long term availability of the SX family of chips?

    Robert
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,403
    edited 2008-11-20 16:10
    Robert,

    We have an agreement with Ubicom which supplies us through 2009. After that it must be renewed. Assuming it is renewed we will likely have the same prices. If it is not renewed we will offer a one-time End-of-Life buy. We are working towards making those decisions in mid-2009.

    Truthfully, it's the volume consumers of the SX that will determine the future. And I recognize that the price will now become an issue for them. Hobby uses of the chip alone are very small in comparison, though these customers also buy our sensors, tools, kits, etc.

    Ken Gracey
    Parallax, Inc.
  • SashaSasha Posts: 35
    edited 2008-11-20 17:19
    I think that Bean and Shawn have the right ... on the one hand agree with Steel also.
    But for me as a hobbyist, support is a key element (always grateful to Bean, Jonny Mac and others from this forum).
    Parallax sales department has a very pleasant staff and it is very important for customers from other continents, countries (such as I'm), I'll mention Mrs or Miss Kristina Stewart, she help me a lot to solve some issues and to reduce postage costs in the future, which is good compensation for me for this increase in price.

    it's "What makes Parallax, Parallax"....or...it was...Subaru...shakehead.gif ...hmm...never mind...just kidding.

    So my opinion is that this increase in prices is not catastrophic for customers, regardless of whether Commercial or hobby.

    Ken, people say: "all roads lead to China," but I am sure that you have considered this option, if it is feasible in general.

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    ·
  • william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
    edited 2008-11-21 00:42
    If Ubicom wants to let the SX die off, that means they are effectively giving up the IP.
    Why don't Parallax offer to buy the SX IP from Ubicom for a token sum then?

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  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2008-11-21 14:34
    Perhaps that will be an option for Parallax to pickup (or at least license) the IP for the SX chips so they can get them made like the Propeller chips. I enjoy using the SX chips in many projects and want to see them stick around and be a viable option for future projects.

    Robert
  • JonnyMacJonnyMac Posts: 9,214
    edited 2008-11-21 19:18
    william chan said...
    If Ubicom wants to let the SX die off, that means they are effectively giving up the IP.
    Why don't Parallax offer to buy the SX IP from Ubicom for a token sum then?

    And then -- with the experience gained from creating the Propeller -- update it. Make it Turbo Mode only (SX28), flatten the memory, fix the power consumption, add more RAM, maybe some onboard EEPROM... booya!, super SX that could rock the small micro world. I love the SX and all of our (EFX-TEK) serial accessories use them so I don't want to see the SX go away.
  • VelocitVelocit Posts: 119
    edited 2008-11-21 22:19
    JonnyMac said...
    And then -- with the experience gained from creating the Propeller -- update it. Make it Turbo Mode only (SX28), flatten the memory, fix the power consumption, add more RAM, maybe some onboard EEPROM... booya!, super SX that could rock the small micro world. I love the SX and all of our (EFX-TEK) serial accessories use them so I don't want to see the SX go away.

    That would be absolutely amazing... on-board EEPROM would make this chip invincible.

    The company for which I work exclusively uses SX microcontrollers in our products. We currently buy at smaller quantities, but I hear we're looking to begin integrating them into larger production runs. It would be a real shame if anything were to happen to the SXes.

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  • CalebjoCalebjo Posts: 15
    edited 2008-11-22 00:12
    JonnyMac said...
    And then -- with the experience gained from creating the Propeller -- update it. Make it Turbo Mode only (SX28), flatten the memory, fix the power consumption, add more RAM, maybe some onboard EEPROM... booya!, super SX that could rock the small micro world. I love the SX and all of our (EFX-TEK) serial accessories use them so I don't want to see the SX go away.

    I agree with Jonnymac and velocitapaola also; If they could take the SX chip and use the propeller experience to make this kind of product it would become the perfect transition for those·hobbyists that love the BASIC Stamp to go to SX/B and SX assembly. The support and lower cost than the BASIC Stamp make the SX chip extremely valuable to commercial and hobbyists.
  • dkemppaidkemppai Posts: 315
    edited 2008-11-22 03:48
    JonnyMac said...

    And then -- with the experience gained from creating the Propeller -- update it. Make it Turbo Mode only (SX28), flatten the memory, fix the power consumption, add more RAM, maybe some onboard EEPROM... booya!, super SX that could rock the small micro world. I love the SX and all of our (EFX-TEK) serial accessories use them so I don't want to see the SX go away.
    Or, take one of the prop cores, use the saved silicon·room for more ram and·a few hardware DSP functions (Div,Mult, and Add/Mult's). Throw a few extra hardware timers in there, and you'd have a winner! A 32bit·80Mhz pic, with DSP and a couple·K registers of 32Bit ram,·and good asm support would be what I'd like to see! Get that sucker down to $4 a pop, with a·good·long term supply chain and support, and I'm in.

    The bottom line, is the Prop is overkill for most of what I do. Yeah, a neat chip, but too much $$$, and too many cores. (I've yet to fill up the SX chip!)

    -Dan







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  • JonnyMacJonnyMac Posts: 9,214
    edited 2008-11-22 03:49
    If you do that it's no longer an SX and all the we've put into learning and developing the SX goes away, too.
  • dkemppaidkemppai Posts: 315
    edited 2008-11-22 03:55
    JonnyMac said...
    If you do that it's no longer an SX and all the we've put into learning and developing the SX goes away, too.
    Sounds like there's a good chance that may happen no matter what.

    -Dan


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    "A saint-like quantity of patience is a help, if this is unavailable, a salty vocabulary works nearly as well." - A. S. Weaver
  • MacgruberMacgruber Posts: 20
    edited 2008-11-22 09:09
    This is a bummer! The price of the SX was a major part of why I chose this microcontroller in the first place. I wanted to get a chip that was powerful yet so inexpensive that I didn't mind popping it into circuits for friends or for projects at work. I couldn't really see spending $50 on a stamp (that does less for all intents and purposes) or $11 for a prop that is way more powerful than I need.

    I'm disappointed to hear this news but I would be really unhappy if the chip goes obsolete. (Picturing the scene in Terminator 2 when the "last chip" dips into the molten metal in the foundry...)
  • kb2hapkb2hap Posts: 218
    edited 2008-11-22 12:39
    Well Unfortunately maybe its time to sever ties with Ubicom. I think there interest has long faded away (for the SX) and this is just there way of souring our taste for the SX. It would be real nice if Parallax designed its our SX compatible chip, and eventually juicing it up a bit as mentioned above....hmmmmm maybe the PSX, darn that name was already taken. Ok how bout PXSX-Parallax Extreme SX or just PX. I think theres some good interest for a product like that.

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  • william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
    edited 2008-11-22 13:21
    I think a tiny-Propeller with 2 cogs and 16 to 20 pins package would be a world class beater if it can be sold at USD 3.00 retail each.

    The only reason why we are using the SX instead of the Propeller is the price.

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  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2008-11-22 15:55
    Just for a little reality check on a "tiny Propeller". Remember that the Propeller was designed for a chip fab process that doesn't support flash memory so a "tiny Propeller" would either need an external EEPROM or the chip would need to be redesigned for a flash compatible process. In either case, we're talking about a major effort.
  • william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
    edited 2008-11-22 23:00
    We are used to adding external eeproms with the SX anyway, since the SX also lacks an internal data eeprom.

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  • Lord SteveLord Steve Posts: 206
    edited 2008-11-23 01:15
    There are other ramifications of not having internal flash.· Remember the whole "Propeller has no code protection" deal?· The SX has code protection and that is hugely important.
  • Invent-O-DocInvent-O-Doc Posts: 768
    edited 2008-11-23 20:32
    Hmmm. Price increases are never good news, but there really has been a lot of inflation lately. I'm going to stock up now and will still buy SX chips in the future because they are STILL a good value at 5 bucks a chip when you factor in all the support and SX/B 2! on the way.

    I wish there were a small version of the propeller too. I don't do SMD yet and can't afford the spin stamp.

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  • william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
    edited 2008-11-24 05:26
    Lord Steve said...
    There are other ramifications of not having internal flash. Remember the whole "Propeller has no code protection" deal? The SX has code protection and that is hugely important.

    But since the Propeller is fairly successful even though it has no code protection and sold at a relatively high price, it shows that "code protection" may not be as "mandatory" as it seems to be.

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  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2008-11-24 14:23
    The propeller has it's place and it is an awesome chip but there are several factors that make the SX a much better choice than the Propeller that have to do with the on-chip flash. It is extremely important when using a micro as an intelligent peripheral. What you may ask? The start up time. When I power up the chip the SX is ready to go. The Propeller on the other hand has a latency upon power up while it reads the program code out of the external EEPROM. That may work for some peripherals while this is troublesome for others. One case in particular is the SC-01 to SpeakJet translator I wrote and had published in the December 2007 SERVO. It had to be ready immediately where the Propeller would have added extra complexity at a higher cost.

    It's all about selecting the right processor for the job at hand. I can handle a small bump in price (actually it seems like it was before they dropped the price across the board) and hope the SX chips will be available for a long time. I'd prefer consistency in a Micro do that you don't have to redesign a board and recode for the new flavor of the week in chips. I think that is why I originally gravitated toward the SX since all the peripherals can be done on the fly in software and the programming is consistent between the chips (with minor variations).

    Robert
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