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Prop-CPLD — Parallax Forums

Prop-CPLD

LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
edited 2009-02-25 02:18 in Propeller 1
As I mentioned in another thread, I've been thinking of putting a Propeller chip on the same board as an Altera MAX II CPLD. The smallest MAX II comes in a 100 lead QFP package, and I have some of the EPM570 devices, so it makes sense to use one of those. The smaller EPM240 is pin-compatible. The EPM570 has 570 logic elements, up to 8kBits of storage, and a maximum input frequency of 304 MHz. It uses a 3.3V supply.

The proposed board would have a QFP Propeller chip with the usual stuff like a 5 MHz crystal, Prop Clip connector, EEPROM, etc. The CPLD will have a socket for a an oscillator, and a JTAG connector for programming. The I/Os will be brought out to pads, and there will be a sizeable prototyping area.

Is there any interest in such a board?

Leon

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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
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Comments

  • Brian FairchildBrian Fairchild Posts: 549
    edited 2008-09-30 11:46
    Leon said...

    Is there any interest in such a board?
    What 'cost effective' development software is there for the Altera MAX?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-09-30 12:30
    It's free - Altera Quartus II Software—Web Edition: www.altera.com/products/software/quartus-ii/web-edition/qts-we-index.html

    You will also need a ByteBlaster for programming the CPLD, it's easy to make one that uses the parallel port (I have a PCB design for my version of it). USB devices are also available.


    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
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  • BTXBTX Posts: 674
    edited 2008-09-30 14:06
    Hi Leon.
    Why not, directly add a SRAM to the board ?
    At least 512 Kb.

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    Regards.

    Alberto.
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2008-09-30 15:22
    would be like Andre's HX512 then [noparse]:D[/noparse]

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    ·
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-09-30 16:16
    I just had a look at the HX512. It's a good idea as it uses up some of the pins on the CPLD and saves me bringing them out to pads. smile.gif

    It would be feasible to program the CPLD with software running on the Propeller, and downloaded via the Prop Clip, but I won't put that on the initial version.

    I've started on the schematic. I'll make it available for comments when it's finished.

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-09-30 18:19
    Here is the schematic: www.leonheller.com/Prop-CPLD/Prop-CPLD.pdf

    It's not quite complete - I need to add some more decoupling capacitors and pads for I/Os. I'm not sure how best to arrange the connections between the Propeller and the CPLD. Does anyone have any suggestions? I thought of connecting all the Propeller I/Os to the CPLD, as well as bringing them out to pads, and bring the remaining CPLD I/Os out to pads.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

    Post Edited (Leon) : 9/30/2008 6:36:58 PM GMT
  • BTXBTX Posts: 674
    edited 2008-09-30 20:27
    Hi Leon.

    About the IO's I would leave free some propeller pins for used with some special devices, and some of the CPLD too.
    But I would wired some I/O pins from propeller to the CPLD (Like eight for data, and some for asyncronous comunications..ie: three pins more).
    Also I think a good idea could be leave one pin of the propeller wired to the gclk1 of the CPLD. (I used that for an easy, and different clk for the CPLD).

    Just a question, do you have some LM317 free ?? why this ?, I found it very unstable although the 1% R's used, why not the LM2937-3.3 ??
    Leon said...
    It would be feasible to program the CPLD with software running on the Propeller

    If you do that, (for me) you're god !!
    I found Altera selling the USB blaster for $150.-, Terasic, some similar for $50.-
    Maybe it could be very atractive, to buy your board.

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    Regards.

    Alberto.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-09-30 21:00
    Thanks, Alberto. I'll look into your suggestions.

    I've got a Sunshine USB I/F, which is similar to the Terasic one, but costs more.

    I'll actually use the LM1117, although I've never had any problems with the LM117. I think they are cheaper than the fixed ones, which is why people like Olimex use them.

    I've programmed an Altera FPGA with an MCU on the same board, it wasn't too difficult.

    Here are details of my JTAG I/F:

    www.geocities.com/leon_heller/Blaster.zip

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

    Post Edited (Leon) : 9/30/2008 9:59:47 PM GMT
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2008-09-30 22:37
    Hi Leon.

    How big this board will be.
    In my sugestion try to have al Pins accesible trouth Pin headers even if them is conected to CPLD, RAM etc.
    It is more reliable to tests

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    Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
    For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
    Don't guess - ask instead.
    If you don't ask you won't know.
    If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.


    Sapieha
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-09-30 23:13
    I'll look into that. I was intending it to be quite small, perhaps 40 mm x 60 mm.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2008-09-30 23:22
    Hi Leon.

    In My opinion have it same as ProtoBoar.
    But have al Pins On Board for compatiblity and Re configuration posiblites

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
    For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
    Don't guess - ask instead.
    If you don't ask you won't know.
    If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.


    Sapieha
  • AleAle Posts: 2,363
    edited 2008-10-01 05:53
    Leon, that is a nice board. If you decide to make some count me for a couple!
  • nutsonnutson Posts: 242
    edited 2008-10-01 07:26
    I would be very interested in a board with a prop, a CPLD/FPGA and SRAM connected to the CPLD,·giving·the prop more RAM and more IO pins.·In my current project· I·have a prop·driving an Terasic DE-1 board (based upon the Altera 2C20)·through·an 8 bit bidirectional data bus·and 4 control lines. The·learning curve for CPLD/FPGA programming in·Verilog·using Quartus design software is modest.

    Nico Hattink
  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,110
    edited 2008-10-01 07:31
    Hi Leon,

    Count me in for two as well.

    We have been looking at a similar design for marrying Prop up with an FPGA but we've got far too much on at the moment for it to get off the ground.

    I'd like to see at least one pin group left free of any other connection to the CPLD along the lines of what Alberto was saying.
    Then if you can just bring the rest out to pin headers it would be a great board for prototyping then.

    Integrated SRAM would be a bonus but not really a great iussue if you add pin headers.

    Looks good so far.

    Regards,

    Coley

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-01 10:36
    Thanks, Coley.

    By pin group I presume you mean pins that can be used for video?

    Of course, pins can simply be routed straight through the CPLD. I considered just doing that, originally.

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

    Post Edited (Leon) : 10/1/2008 10:41:23 AM GMT
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2008-10-01 11:08
    This is great, I'd also like a couple of boards like that.

    Might not be wise to route all the prop pins straight through the CPLD, would cause problems when wanting to change rapidly from input to output.

    Perhaps provide pads for connecting to all Prop and CPLD I/Os externally with PCB traces between that can be scratched out (or bridged) as required.

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    For me, the past is not over yet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-01 16:12
    Updated schematic:

    www.leonheller.com/Prop-CPLD/Prop-CPLD.pdf

    To avoid clutter, I've incorporated net names in the PCB part for the Propeller. The PCB software I use (Pulsonix) will automatically connect them in the PCB layout editor. I'll do the same with the CPLD.

    I've bought P12-P14 out to pads for video output.

    I won't actually be connecting the pins between the Propeller and the CPLD, they will be bought out to pads that can be bridged, as suggested. I'll also be adding some header connectors. The prototyping area will be defined on the PCB.

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

    Post Edited (Leon) : 10/1/2008 4:23:16 PM GMT
  • TimmooreTimmoore Posts: 1,031
    edited 2008-10-01 16:23
    Running prop pins 28/29 out to I/O pads is useful if you need to add I2C devices. Also putting a pull up on P28 as well as P29 is useful when you add I2C devices.
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2008-10-01 16:55
    Don't forget to include a couple of little LEDs. Every board needs LEDS[noparse]:)[/noparse]

    If only as an initial confidence test heartbeat for example. One for the Prop and one for the CPLD.

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    For me, the past is not over yet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-01 17:07
    OK. I'll add the I2C capability and a couple of LEDs.

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • nutsonnutson Posts: 242
    edited 2008-10-01 17:09
    I also want two when you·sell them.

    Nico Hattink
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-01 17:29
    Are people interested in bare PCBs, or do you want assembled and tested boards?

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2008-10-01 17:58
    How easy is it to solder these devices at home ?
    Depends on price of course but I'm leaning toward fully assembled just now.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    For me, the past is not over yet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-01 18:15
    I don't have any problems with devices like that, but I have a Metcal soldering station with a mini-hoof cartridge for drag-soldering and a stereo microscope. It isn't too difficult, but I wouldn't advise it if you haven't done any fine-pitch soldering before. The Propeller isn't too bad, but the CPLD leads are 0.5 mm apart and rather fragile. I'll be using 0805 Cs and Rs.

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • BTXBTX Posts: 674
    edited 2008-10-01 19:12
    Hi Leon
    I think some bare PCB's could be a great idea too.
    Soldering the CPLD package is not difficult at all, I usually did that with a common iron solder and some flux gel. Just only need a little bit of practique.
    Leon, be carrefully with the bridges to connect some propellers pins plus some CPLD pins, I can imagine you've in mind to avoid degrading signals of high frequency at the buses.

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    Regards.

    Alberto.
  • dMajodMajo Posts: 855
    edited 2008-10-01 19:25
    Leon,

    if the eeprom is only 256K than I will prefer a ramtron device FM31L278 (no rewrite limits, RTC, 2 CNT, SN support). You can route VBAT out the board near VCC so they can be easely bridged together.

    I have already used the backed counters for anti-tamper and security key features on other developments.

    Dario
  • AleAle Posts: 2,363
    edited 2008-10-01 20:12
    Are 0805s necessary ? 0805s in 1206s pads are ok, and you have more possibilities unless you want to do a really small board... if it is say 100x80 mm it would be ok with larger parts, just a suggestion.
  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,110
    edited 2008-10-01 20:38
    Leon said...
    Are people interested in bare PCBs, or do you want assembled and tested boards?

    I would prefer assembled and tested but only because I have enough to do assembling my own boards tongue.gif

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-01 20:42
    I always use 0805 or 0603 parts. 1206 are hard to find here in the UK.

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-01 22:23
    Another update:

    www.leonheller.com/Prop-CPLD/Prop-CPLD.pdf

    I've added two 2x8 IDC cable headers for the Propeller I/O, two LEDs and pads for I2C expansion. The LEDs are connected to pads, so they may be connected to any of the Propeller or CPLD I/Os.

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
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