USB SX-Key Update

cgracey

Andre LaMothe has asked that we post an update on the SX-Key situation. Here it is:

The new USB SX-Key is very close to shipping.

Gunther, Peter, and I spent all last week working on it, since it had been recently re-designed by Gunther and the new clock synthesizer chip was posing some subtle issues. We got all the software straightened out, but it was still not working reliably. On Monday, Kevin and I discovered that the 20MHz crystal on the new Key was flakey, perhaps due to moisture absorbtion during cleaning. We replaced the crystal and it started working perfectly. So, we need to do a once-over on all the software to make sure everything looks straight (even though it seems to be working fine), and then solder on new replacement crystals to our current stock of 1,000 new USB SX-Keys.

I am hoping that we can start shipping again next week.


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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.

StarMan

I don't want to go the wrong way with this thread but your mention of a flakey 20 MHz crystal struck a chord with me.· I make a product that uses the 20 MHz SMT resonator (Parallax P/N 250-12055) and I have had a large number (approximately 35%) of failures·recently with this part.· I called tech support and they said it was probably my soldering temperature being too high.· I'm not convinced that this is the problem, but I haven't ruled it out either.· Since it is a RoHs compliant part, it should be able to withstand the higher soldering temperatures.· When I rework the boards with the failed resonators, I use a 600 degree tip for about 1 second on each pad.· So far I haven't had to rework a board twice.

Is this the part you are using on the SX Key?· Have you tested large numbers of these?· Do you test every SX Key that you ship?·

My quantities are fairly small (a couple dozen per month) so I don't have really good data.· The failures started showing up around the time·Parallax switched over from the 250-12060 units.



Chris I.

Bean

Chris,
Try adjusting the OSCxxx setting on the device line. Sometimes that fixes "flakey" resonators/crystals.
A 20 MHz resonator should work at either OSCHS1 or OSCHS2, but you might try OSCXT2 also.

Bean.

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Did you know that 111,111,111 multiplied by 111,111,111 equals 12345678987654321 ?

www.iElectronicDesigns.com

·

StarMan

Thanks Terry, but for this product I'm still using a BS2 OEM chip.· I probably should have mentioned that.· The next version will·be redesigned to use an·SX.··



Chris I.

cgracey

StarMan said...

I don't want to go the wrong way with this thread but your mention of a flakey 20 MHz crystal struck a chord with me.· I make a product that uses the 20 MHz SMT resonator (Parallax P/N 250-12055) and I have had a large number (approximately 35%) of failures·recently with this part.· I called tech support and they said it was probably my soldering temperature being too high.· I'm not convinced that this is the problem, but I haven't ruled it out either.· Since it is a RoHs compliant part, it should be able to withstand the higher soldering temperatures.· When I rework the boards with the failed resonators, I use a 600 degree tip for about 1 second on each pad.· So far I haven't had to rework a board twice.

Is this the part you are using on the SX Key?· Have you tested large numbers of these?· Do you test every SX Key that you ship?·

My quantities are fairly small (a couple dozen per month) so I don't have really good data.· The failures started showing up around the time·Parallax switched over from the 250-12060 units.



Chris I.

We need to look into this. I will talk to purchasing tomorrow and find out where we are getting these resonators from. Historically, we've used Murata parts, but we might have·a new vendor. The parts we are having trouble with on the USB SX-Key are not resonators, but crystals. It's possible you're seeing the same types of issues, though.
I've seen some resonators fail after washing, as if their hermetic seal failed and they·absorbed moisture. I'm not at all fond of this new RoHS stuff, either, as it stresses components more and makes lousy solder joints. The old tin/lead system worked beautifully.

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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.

Bill Chennault

Chip--

Thank you very much for the update.

--Bill

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You are what you write.

pwillard

Good Luck with this... that's a tough issue to have to take on the chin so late in the process.




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There's nothing like a new idea and a warm soldering iron.

RobotWorkshop

Did everything work out as expected with the fix for the new USB SX-Key? A friend of mine wants to try out the SX chips is anxious to get one so he can start using the SX chips for his projects. Just curious if any of these have started shipping yet.

RobotWorkshop

Is the new USB based SX-Key going to be powered from the USB port only or will it need to be powered from the target device like the original SX-Key? If it is powered strictly from the USB port should we make sure that it is on it's own powered USB hub? The reason I ask is that I've run into a couple odd issues where a particular USB port on a laptop wasn't able to supply enough power to the target USB device. This caused some odd/flakey operation of the USB device in question. Once I added a powered HUB inline with it then it made quite an improvement. Don't know if this will be a problem with the new key or not.

I'm still using my Serial SK-Key (and will keep using it) but may want to get one of these new USB versions for my other computer system once they are ready.

Robert

Guenther Daubach

Robert,

the SX-Key USB is strictly powered from the USB port with the target's Vdd NOT connected through to the SX-Key USB. This means that it can work with target systems with supply voltages below 5 V.

The average current consumption of the SX-Key USB is below 100 mA but when hot-plugged or due to the way the programming voltage is generated, peak loads do occur on the USB port. Most of the time during testing, I had the SX-Key USB connected to my laptop without problems. Nevertheless, a powered HUB inline with the SX-Key USB is a good idea.

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Greetings from Germany,

G

cgracey

Sorry I'm late following up on the resonator question. Here is what I learned: We quit using Murata a while back because the parts we were getting from them were being phased out, and at some point we were the only customer left who was buying that component from them. We switched to another company called Transko (http://www.transko.com/) for all our resonators. These parts seem be to working fine for us.

About the crystal trouble we were having on the new SX-Key USB: It turned out that the crystals were fine -·the PCB layout was wrong! We had connected to the side pins of the 4-pin crystal, while we should have connected to the opposite corner pins. That it was working, at all, was a miracle, as we were probably coupled only through·5pF, through what was supposed to be the GND pin. No wonder it was acting flakey. A cut and a jump on the PCB fixed everything.

All that said, I don't know why you are having such problems with those resonators. It might be·a thermal/washing-induced problem, or something else. I don't know. We seem to be having good luck with the Transko resonators now, though.

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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.

cgracey

About the new SX-Key USB's availability:

We are making the small cuts and jumps to our inventory of 1,000 new Keys to fix the crystal problem. The firmware for the new Key is already done, thanks to all the work Gunther did. We are working with Peter Montgomery now to update the application software. It looks like it is going to be this week that we can start shipping again.

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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.

Timothy D. Swieter

A cut and a jumper on 1,000 PCBs - ouch. I suppose it could have been worse. Thank you for the detailed explanation Chip.

I am excited to hear that they will be shipping soon.

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Timothy D. Swieter

www.brilldea.com·- check out the uOLED-IOC, an I/O expansion for the uOLED-96-PROP
www.tdswieter.com

---

One little spark of imagination is all it takes for an idea to explode

Ken Gracey

As Chip mentioned, Guenther Daubach and Peter Montgomery were at Parallax for a solid week of SX-Key USB debugging. We owe these guys a tremendous "thanks" for making the trip from Germany and Los Angeles to Parallax. They worked with Chip for the whole week to resolve the engineering problems.

In the photo below Guenther is nearby and Peter is at the far end of the table.

Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.

PJMonty

Ken,

I strongly protest your blatant use of product placement in this shot! I look like some sort of shill for Parallax.

You, my good sir, have clearly sullied my reputation with this flagrant abuse.

The fact that I already support Parallax as a company will in no way deter me from seeking some outrageous monetary compensation.

Thanks,
PeterM

Ken Gracey

PeterM:

Hah! Well, if we set out to hire a company model we probably wouldn't have chosen you either.

But at least the product selection around you helps improve the picture a bit!

Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.

StarMan

Thanks for the followup on the resonators, Chip.· As I said, all of the units that I reworked at our facility have stood up.· So, now I'm fairly confident the company I hire to assemble my boards·is doing something that's causing the problem.


Chris I.

Guenther Daubach

Hey Ken,

thanks for publishing this picture, it really shows how hard we all were working on that project - I did not even have the time for shaving .

Unfortunately, this picture does not show the third member of the team: Chip!

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Greetings from Germany,

G

PJMonty

And I didn't even have time to grow hair!

Thanks,
PeterM

Bill Chennault

G

cgracey

Bill Chennault said...

G

Bill Chennault

Chip--

Wow! You and your Dad sure look alike! The differences are almost completely invisible! [noparse]:)[/noparse]

Congratulations on the SX-Key (USB).

--Bill

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You are what you write.

Lord Steve

That shot was taken at the angle for a reason...Chuck had a baseball bat in his right hand.· Guenther rethought speaking the words, "It still doesn't verk, Heir Gracey."

Guenther Daubach

Hey, how did you know???

Actually, Chuck told me that he read my book but was missing some details about the SX sleep mode. So I have one more item on my to-do list for the next edition.

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Greetings from Germany,

G

Ken Gracey

SX-Key USB update. Chip is back in the office today because we encountered an issue with our test procedure in DEBUG mode. I didn't hear the details of the problem except for the fact that Chip said "um, it shouldn't do that. . .I'll be there tomorrow to take a look". Don't know about the seriousness of the problem, but I'm sure it will add a day delay to delivering SX-Key USB tools. For those expecting them on Monday, please give us another day. Chip will provide an update later on.

Thanks,

Ken Gracey

RobotWorkshop

When reading through this thread I read that the firmware for the new SX-Key was complete and that Peter was working on an update to the application software. Does this mean that we are going to be seeing a new version of the SX-Key software coming out? Or, is there going to be a patch we need to apply in order to use the new USB based SK-Key?

Robert

Ken Gracey

Robert,

Yes, you will be seeing a new SX-Key IDE that supports both the serial and USB SX-Keys. I expect to see that on the web by today or tomorrow. Peter Montgomery is travelling so we are trying to track him down.

Also, the new SX-Key USB began shipping today.

Ken Gracey

DynamoBen

I see the website still lists it as out of stock, and I'm sure you have back log. Any idea what the ETA would be for a new order?

Ken Gracey

Orders are filled as they are placed in the queue at this point, so it depends on when you place the order. If you wait for some products to be in stock before you place an order then you may never have the product, but if you put an order in then you are certain to receive it someday by placing your sales order in the queue.

At this moment, I'd say a new order for an SX-Key USB would ship in a couple of days.

Managing an inventory like ours is fairly complex. Between changing costs, changing market plans, parts in progress, engineering changes and component obsolescence dealing with our 400+ for-sale items is a non-stop game of keep-up. Now that we've connected our internal business systems to the web we have a new set of considerations to manage.

As far as I know, there's no more hangups with the SX-Key USB.

Ken Gracey

Timothy D. Swieter

I got the new SX-Key USB the other day. This is my first forray into the SX world. I have primarily used the Propeller (and other unnamed micros) so I am looking forward to learning and using the SX. I am on my way back to Hong Kong, so I haven't had time to hook it up yet. I studied the device and I think I saw an intersting sodlering solution with an 0603 part solder from a pin of an IC to another device. I should have grabbed a picture of it. Was this one of the solutions you had to implement to get the device working properly?

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Timothy D. Swieter

www.brilldea.com·- check out the uOLED-IOC, an I/O expansion for the uOLED-96-PROP
www.tdswieter.com

---

One little spark of imagination is all it takes for an idea to explode

cgracey

Timothy D. Swieter said...
...I studied the device and I think I saw an intersting sodlering solution with an 0603 part solder from a pin of an IC to another device. I should have grabbed a picture of it. Was this one of the solutions you had to implement to get the device working properly?

That resistor is used as a pull-down to keep the clock generator chip disabled until the SX wakes up and takes over. Gunther Daubach realized this was needed.


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Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.