Fellow PAL Prop'ers rejoice :)
Baggers
Posts: 3,019
Coley and myself have been busy, We have come up with a TV driver that shows a still non-colour-rippling image in PAL to match that of NTSC [noparse]:D[/noparse]
So, can ALL you PAL·region Prop'ers test this new example out on your TV's and give feedback.
Cheers,
Baggers.
So, can ALL you PAL·region Prop'ers test this new example out on your TV's and give feedback.
Cheers,
Baggers.
Comments
Regards
Mike.
PS So their is life after NTSC
You'll be surprised how STILL it is, there's absolutely NO ripple on the tv's I've tested anyway, which is why I'm asking for other PAL users to test, before committing it to the world [noparse]:)[/noparse] and changing all my tv drivers to use this.
PS Manic Miner and Jetpac, and all the others, look far better now in PAL mode [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Baggers.
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Post Edited (Leon) : 1/6/2008 4:09:27 PM GMT
Just done a quick test with your Binary. The output does look good, it looks very good actually. Was waiting for the nasty colour
ringing, bleeding etc. Try as I might, I never saw it
I tested with a Sony PVM and a cheap Hitachi 14" Portable that does not do NTSC so previously was A black and white display.
For me this driver works very well
Shall have to tell people that this is now the device to use. For me at least this makes the chip much more interesting!
Both very well done on this project.
With best regards
Mike.
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Leon, Ok, thanks for the feedback, one down, so far,
although thinking more into it, the NTSC setting must be working a PAL60 too, because the Phase Alternating is going on in that demo, so I guess you could say it's working [noparse]:)[/noparse]
so in NTSC mode is it changing colour all the time? or is it static?, if it's static, I'm happy [noparse]:)[/noparse]
could you explain what you have done? I don't like binaries....
You are correct the video basepin is 12 for the Demoboard and Protoboard.
@deSilva
It is encoded for PAL60 - 525 Lines but with PAL colour burst timing
We have tried in vain for PAL-I 50Hz but we can't reduce the colour crawl enough to a satisfactory level.
This I suppose is a compromise and we are lucky enough in Europe to have displays that can accept this signal.
I myself have tested it on several professional quality composite monitors with great results.
Regards,
Coley
Post Edited (Coley) : 1/6/2008 4:42:10 PM GMT
Try that.
Baggers.
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
No output at all on the Hydra. Switched back to an NTSC game to make sure I have everything still working, and it was fine. Double check your pin settings for the Hydra target?
This is a bog standard Sony UK CRT TV. If there's anything remotely like a PAL signal it should recognise it.
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Thus it will most likely NOT work with David's low cost PAL only device :-(
But it is a great thing to have am acceptable quality on living room TVs!
I shall change my TV.spin accordingly.
Try this binary instead, it should work ok on Hydra (I've disabled the mouse for you)
Regards,
Coley
wow.
why are the dogs 'n' stars·not rotating? ;-)
too bad it's just the binary... ;-) ;-) ;-)
They don't rotate to demonstrate the crispness of the display, you wouldn't be able to see how sharp it is whilst it's moving.
Anyway the changes are so simple you'll all be kicking yourselves! (I know I Did!)
It would appear that the change is a success so a big thanks for all your input!
Attached is the modified tv.spin
Regards,
Coley
<EDIT> Attached updated tv.spin with file header amended to show the changes made
Post Edited (Coley) : 1/6/2008 7:57:13 PM GMT
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY GREAT!!!
BTW: can you indicate a change in the file header, please.
Edit: Same effect with the Hydra binary.
I use an auto sync PAL/NTSC monitor... For some reason it is damn sure it's PAL he gets, switches in PAL mode and expects 560 lines....
Post Edited (deSilva) : 1/6/2008 8:53:20 PM GMT
Now that I am beginning to understand PAL TV timings I intend to have another look at this driver and work on optimising the 50Hz mode.
This is a simple change that gives us a usable PAL display for the time being.
oops, my bad. I will do this straight away!
Best regards,
Coley
Can much else be left for Prop II? YES!
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Harley Shanko
Post Edited (Harley) : 1/6/2008 9:12:34 PM GMT
Yeah, not much left for PropII except MORE POWER and more ram, so can have double buffered 320x200 256 Colour bitmap without worrying about using up all the available ram, it'll still have 128KB left from the 256KB ram, ( that's if Chip doesn't have more surprises in store [noparse]:)[/noparse] ) I can't wait to be unleashed on that puppy [noparse];)[/noparse] I have so many ideas in my head I wanna try on PropII
PS, Harley, how about a Mandelbrot?
Don't panic Harley it's only a picture it's not generated on the fly.....yet!
Coley
Thanks, the replacement binary works perfectly on the Hydra.
Could you explain exactly what the breakthrough is here. The standard parallax driver has a flag for PAL, did that not work? I can't remember if I ever tried it or not.
By reading about PAL60, it would seem that there is an advantage in that the vertical resolution is the same as NTSC, and the refresh rate the same, such that it's easy to have games working at the same res and speed in PAL as with NTSC, But with the advantage that the horizontal resolution is better as is colour reproduction. Is that what this is about?
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Help to build the Propeller wiki - propeller.wikispaces.com
Play Defender - Propeller version of the classic game
Prop Room Robotics - my web store for Roomba spare parts in the UK
Yeah, there's lots of benfits, being same resolution, 256x192 now also fills same screen coverage as NTSC does,
But the MAIN feature of this, is the fact that we no longer have horrible dot-crawl for PAL displays [noparse];)[/noparse]
Baggers.
This came about after preliminary tests with PropGFX Lite, I was unhappy with the PAL - I 50Hz output.
TBH I normally run ally my apps in NTSC as there is a lot less colour dot crawl.
We had to find a solution as not everyone has a TV that can display NTSC as well as PAL.
So the original driver does have a PAL flag and when you set that flag the resulting PAL display is poor.
There have been numerous discussions about the quality of said PAL images on these forums already....
Because PAL can handle another 100 lines the resulting display is 'squashed' into a smaller space on the screen, this I believe is where the root of the problem lies.
All that we have done is to change the TV metrics to reflect a 60Hz signal but keeping the PAL subcarrier colour information, the result is PAL60.
It proves that the Prop can do PAL well, just not at 50Hz......not yet anyway!
Regards,
Coley
In the real world, every country can't even agree on anything. *lol*
I didn't even know there was a PAL-60hz. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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