The total Newbies page

mosquito56

· I have decided to start a total newbies page. For people who have no idea what is the difference between + and ground. j/k.
·
· Since I have started this post, I can edit this page. Anyone is free to contribute and I will update this page. It will be changing rapidly I hope as I become more familiar with the prop. This page is only an intro. I will be imediately responding so I can reserve the first to pages. This is only for a beginners rambling.

· I purchased my kit around the middle of Dec 07. Here are some suggestions for very first timers.

···· 1. Download the propeller.exe and install it even if you haven't bought the chip yet. I ordered the education kit and the proto board. DON"T do this. Just get the education board, the accesories kit, the usb connector ·and any toys you think you would like. I have the·proto board in the·bag and probably won't use it for at least 6 months. NOTE: If you are an electrical engineer start with the proto board. This is just my ranting, I know nothing of the other chips or the hydra. If you want gaming definetley get the hydra.YMMV·

···· 2. Get GEAR.exe windows. Don't know·if there is a linux or apple version. ·http://sourceforge.net/projects/gear-emu

It's a simulator for the propeller.· Yes there is another simulator but I have no idea how to use it. Just load up a program in prop.exe and "RUN,Compile,viewinfo". At the bottom hit save eeprom as file to a convienient location. Now just load the eeprom file you save into gear, click logic probe to see the pins·and hit run. Looks at the pins. You will see them going hi and low. Lot's·of fun for beginners. Make sure to hit update when you change the settings for the timing screens. I have no idea how logic works and I can't find any info on the program.

This was submitted by another user who uses and modifies gear. YMMV: Your milage may vary= Not guareenteed for anything

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=701256

·

·You should start at the first tutorial and do·them all. Very well written for·beginners. If you don't know any·programming you should still be able to figure the code out. ·

Setup and Testing, I/O and Timing then Methods and Cogs.

··3. Run through all the tutorials you can find that deal with logic and leds.

· 4. Begin the video portion. You can download the t.v. and the monitor programs from the object exhange. I don't know about you but most peopl seem to ignore the top part of forums. DON"T DO THIS. There is a massive amoun of very usefu info up there. Keep checkng back as they add stuff all the time.

· 5. If you have ordered the propellor chip and gone through the tutorials you can forget about gear.Once you have those lights a blink'n you won't want a simulator.

Note:Jan 18. There has been an updated version of gear. I have read a post that it can do some advanced things but there is little support for it here. You may find it useful.

· 6. In a order you choose.

·· a. Button and lights

··· b.· IR--- Read any remote about 1/2 hr

··· c. IR sender-- I think it was working correctly but I didn't go very far with it as I have no need for it.

··· d. speaker--good for about 10 minutes then makes you crazy.

·· d.·termperature sensor. PM me when you get to this one, maybe we can figure out the numbers together.

All of the former were included in the accesories kit.

· Jan 3: I bought a temperature sensor for a Chevy to play with. It works fine, same problems with numbers. I expect to order more toys this week. Suggestions would be appreciated.

·Jan 4, 07 Got the temperature probe to move a servo. Works nicely. You will need

·floats := fm.FFloat(number)·

floatss := fm.FRound(floats).

This converts a reading from the sensor probe to a number the servo will understand. Thanx to Desilva on this one. Forget about understanding how prop works with numbers just use float32 or one of it's flavors.

Jan·7: Got prop to drive a simple PNP transitor to turn and dim 12v light. Works nicely.

Another note: my msm is mosquito-56@hotmail.com. If you are a newbie like me or just want to talk props feel free to contact me. Must have a mic. I can't type msgs and work at same time.

·Jan 20, Got first response that anyone will be using this. Unfortune that I hijacked my own thread.

·· I got the adc8701 working well. A must for the beginner in analog digital. Thanx to desilva for recommending this. The max2701 is far more advanced, has 8 chan in and one chan out. Great if you need lots of voltages read unfortunely it won't work with thermocouples as is.







NOTE: If you found this post helpful in any way please respond. That is the only way to get it to the top of the list so others will see it. If no one responds I will not waste my time with this. I may be totally lost but I wish someone with more knowlege would have made a 1,2,3, list to follow when I first started.

·

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······· "What do you mean, it doesn't have any tubes?"

······· "No such thing as a dumb question" unless it's on the internet

Technologically challenged individual, Please have pity.

Post Edited (mosquito56) : 1/23/2008 8:41:24 PM GMT

mosquito56

Jan 20, 08 The search on the forum seriously sucks. Use the one below. You might get lucky and find what you need but the correct search term can be impossible to find. Often we don't even know what term to serch for.

http://search.parallax.com/search?

FINDCHIPS.COM if you have a chip number you can use this to find better descriptions then searching mouser. Also it was recommended that I switch to digikey for a better search. Digikey is a waste. Almost impossible to find anything unless you know the exact partnumber. I ordered and recieved free the catalog. Larger than a phone book. I am afraid to open it and spend my inheritence.

Recomended by philadil

Just thought I'd add my two cents for websites with good parts:


www.futurlec.com···· -Fair selection, dirt cheap prices
www.meci.com········ -Again, dirt cheap prices on many items
www.ebay.com········ -You can always get an awesome deal on nearly any part(of course)
www.digi-key.com···· -wide selection but not always the cheapest(check above sites first!)


Jan 23, 2008. I purchased a pair of 7" t.v. from Best Buy called insignia. Got the video card from Brian at Ucontroller.com.

I highly recommend his services. I got the s/d card and had it up and running in 5 min.

Unfortunetly the video card took alot longer, almost 10min. The instructions were a little vague on where and how to plug this thing in. I recieved a answer from Brian in 1/2 hr and pluged the video in. Looks like an old ega monitor but it's like compaining that the signing dog is out of tune. Amazing this chip can do so much.

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······· "What do you mean, it doesn't have any tubes?"

······· "No such thing as a dumb question" unless it's on the internet

Technologically challenged individual, Please have pity.

Post Edited (mosquito56) : 1/23/2008 8:38:45 PM GMT

Kit Morton

Mosquito,
What kind of strange things happen when you run this code?
It seems to me that the code in the if statement would never run. Because num will never be, both more that 500 and less that 400. I think what you meant to do was

num:=subrou(x) 'gets r/c value from temp sensor
term.str(num)   'prints number between 6000 and up
posservo(1500,1) 'use stiped down version of servos4.zip and works fine
num:=num/2
if (num>500) or (num<400)
  posservo(num,1)

This would set the servo to num if it was more that 500 or less than 400
-Kit

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PHRED, FIRST Team 847, Member
Go -> PHRED

mosquito56

Kit your right, typo should be·

If num>400 and num<4000 this keeps the servo from trying to overtravel. Thanx for the·correction·

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Mosquito: An animal which buzzes in your ear and never stops. He may byte you, he may nibble you, but you will know you were bit.


Technologically challenged individual, Please have pity.

deSilva

@Both:
There are three kinds of "numbers" as it were - in all computers in the world.

(1) "Real" numbers, or - much more descriptive: - "floating point" numbers. They have a weird representation of bits in a LONG (mantissa + exponent). In fact you do not need to know that. Just unerstand that you cannot use them as an "integer". The only thing you can do with them is using them as parameters for special floating point routines, available from objects as "FloatMath", "FloatString", "Float32".

The only other thing to know about them is that you can CONVERT any integer into a "floating point representation" using the routine FFloat, and retain an integer representation using FRound.

(2) "Integer numbers", they go from -2³² to +2³²-1 which is a lot. It takes the Propeller 50 seconds to count them through at full speed.
Their representation is exactly as you would assume:
1 = %1
2 = %10
3 = %11
...

(3) "Strings", containing digits ("0" .."9"), sometimes also blanks, decimal points, signs ("+", "-"), or commas.
You need these strings when you want to output numbers - be they floating point or integer - to a screen. This is done implicitely by the routine ..dec(..) which is available in all video and serial drivers, of with one of the routines contained in object Numbers.

Most people find it obvious that you cannot perfrom any longer any computations with that "string".
Note that a "string" is not a LONG - it is longer than a LONG: a certain number of characters, terminated with a binary zero character: %0000_0000.
When using such strings, always be on alert where this memory is allocated.

As a LONG would only be the first 4 characters of that string, it needs another way of "pointing to them". This is exactly done by "pointers". You always have to use the memory ADDRESS where such strings start.

Post Edited (deSilva) : 1/4/2008 7:32:23 PM GMT

mosquito56

going to spend the day playing with float32. I wanted to understand how numbers were stored but when reading another post it seems that this information is somewhat propriatery.
· If I have to keep track of locations of strings, do I also have to keep track of length?
· If I
term.str(@strr) is that good enuf or will I need to know the length of the string?

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Mosquito: An animal which buzzes in your ear and never stops. He may byte you, he may nibble you, but you will know you were bit.


Technologically challenged individual, Please have pity.

hippy

mosquito56 said...
If I have to keep track of locations of strings, do I also have to keep track of length?

If the length of the string is implied within the string - $00 terminated, or starting with a string length indicator - then you do not need to keep track of anything other than where the string is, anything using that string can determine the string's length.

Strings created with String() are $00 terminated. The StrSize() function returns the length of a string.

mosquito56 said...
If I term.str(@strr) is that good enuf or will I need to know the length of the string?

That's good enough. The term.Str() routine is (probably) written to expect $00 terminated strings and will use StrSize(@strr) to determine the length of the string.

mosquito56

·What exactly is a zero terminated?

mystr:= str("0"). How is the zero terminated different in memory? If I can't get a grip on numbers in memory, the chip is basically useless. Trying to do calculus with a $2 calculator.

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Mosquito: An animal which buzzes in your ear and never stops. He may byte you, he may nibble you, but you will know you were bit.


Technologically challenged individual, Please have pity.

deSilva

Mosquite - I try and try.. I cannot understand the problem you are facing.... I told you in my posting what "zero terminated" is! There is no problem, there is no "proprietary representation" it's all IEEE! It's all extremely simple!

Sorry, I sometimes loose my nerves

P.S.: And don't look into Float32 - look into FloatMath!

hippy

What exactly is a zero terminated?

In terms of a byte sequence, which is what a string most frequently is, it means that the sequence of bytes is terminated with a zero byte ( 0, %0000000, $00 ).

Thus, in terms of a zero terminated string, "ABCD" the hexadecimal values of the string bytes in memory would be ...

$41 $42 $43 $44 $00

A Spin statement 'v := String("ABCD")' will create that byte sequence somewhere in hub memory and put the address of the first byte of the string in the variable 'v'.

In more general terms, zero terminated means that the last entity of a series of entities consists entirely of zeroed bits, regardless of the size of that entity.

mirror

What exactly is zero terminated?

Following on from hippy's example:

Thus, in terms of a zero terminated string, "3210" the hexadecimal values of the string bytes are:

$33 $32 $31 $30 $00

Do you see the extra character - it's a zero, and can NOT be printed. A number of terminal (serial communications programs) will display $00 as [noparse][[/noparse]NUL]. So the previous string would be displayed as:

3210[noparse][[/noparse]NUL]

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mosquito56

doh,, forgot 0 is not 0 in ascii.

P.s. Agitating Desilva is only an added pleasure... LOL



Newbies note: small details will byte you when you get more complicted


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Mosquito: An animal which buzzes in your ear and never stops. He may byte you, he may nibble you, but you will know you were bit.


Technologically challenged individual, Please have pity.

mosquito56

NOTE FOR ANYONE READING:
WWW.FINDCHIPS.COM great for getting info on something but you need the part number to use it. Also www.octopart.com

Note: I just found the stuff under the propeller tool v98.01 lot's of spincode to study.

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Mosquito: An animal which buzzes in your ear and never stops. He may byte you, he may nibble you, but you will know you were bit.


Technologically challenged individual, Please have pity.

Post Edited (mosquito56) : 1/8/2008 8:48:15 PM GMT

deSilva

In thsis SX-Forum thread someone was asking for sources of electronic equipment and got a lot of answers - though it took some time..
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=697769

Catspaw

O.k., while searching around, I found this thread. Almost what I thought it would be. It evolved abit away from my thoughts. So, I'm going to bump it and see what falls over.

Just joined, not total newbie. Long story short. I'm a millwright (that's a person who saws up trees, mills the pieces into mouldings, cabinets, paneling, furniture, etc.) Have been in the trades for 10+ years. Used to be e-tech/software quality assurrance engineer. Hate C languages, love assembly. Hate big computers (too complex for one person), love small computers (simple for one person.) Started some studies of VB and OOPs finally clicked (after 30 yrs.....one reason I never used 'C' langs.) Now I have to do some re-learning/updating to my brain.

Someone opened a door in the back room some where. I looked through and saw some opportunities. They involve mechanical stuff, controls, moving things, etc. I found out about Stamps. Being a syncronous kinda guy needing interupts, polling etc., I then checked out SX's. Then looked at Props.

I've noticed distractions when reading this stuff like versions not being compatible here and there, references to other platforms that I'm not yet familiar with and such.

Ideally, I would like to be up and running in a couple of months on something simple. Simple is...a programmer/control box that addresses up to 8 zip cards that each perform a function/task such as operate a servo, turn something on/off, etc. Standard 16x2 LCD display, keypad type thingy. Up and running means having something to show for my time as opposed to having a completed product.

My big questions to myself are:

Should I start with Stamps, diddle around with all the little experiments (Predko's book), then move to SX and/or then to Props?

Should I/Can I go right to what I need/want with Props and forego the evolutionary stuff?

I have d/l'd some stuff already, but, not the Gear thingy. Basically, a site map of where to go to get the context of all this stuff is what I need. It's so spread out here and there it takes a long time to find each little bit that refers to some other little bit, etc., etc.

Does anybody have advice on a few of these references to get newbies started? Or just d/l the .pdf's and start reading?

Graham Stabler

Go straight for the propeller

Graham

Fred Hawkins

"Does anybody have advice on a few of these references to get newbies started? Or just d/l the .pdf's and start reading?"

Scan all of the 'sticky' material until you know generally what each is about. The Education Kit series is the defacto basics -- everyone here "knows" them and will carp at newbies who neglect them. Rightfully.

Consider buying the Hydra manual.

mosquito56

I started this page for someone just like you. Since you have been the only person to ask anything in over a month I gave up on it and stopped updating it. ·I went thru every education kit tutorial and it is alot to grasp. Follow the first steps on my first page will keep you busy for at least a month.

···· Knowing some programming is a must on any of the chips. However learning it on the prop can be fun. This is an extremely useful tool for making one of a kind tools for your area of work. Definitely start with the prop as it is almost a computer in itself.

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······· "What do you mean, it doesn't have any tubes?"

······· "No such thing as a dumb question" unless it's on the internet

Technologically challenged individual, Please have pity.

Philldapill

Just thought I'd add my two cents for websites with good parts:

www.futurlec.com···· -Fair selection, dirt cheap prices
www.meci.com········ -Again, dirt cheap prices on many items
www.ebay.com········ -You can always get an awesome deal on nearly any part(of course)
www.digi-key.com···· -wide selection but not always the cheapest(check above sites first!)
·

Philldapill

Oh, and in particular when it comes to project boxes:

Big metal project box: http://www.meci.com/index.php/cPath/70
Small, compact box for simple projects: http://futurlec.com/ProjectBoxes.shtml

datacps

mosquito I am a newbie and I will join this thread. Most of the newbies will not post because they don't want to look like idiots with this advance chip. Most of the members here are experts but I am joining now and will start where you suggest. Thanks for posting this thread give it a little time and more will join.. I am going to get the gear and get started .. I will continue to post my project as I go a long.. Don't give up on me yet..thanks...

datacps

mosquito I am a newbie and I will join this thread. Most of the newbies will not post because they don't want to look like idiots with this advance chip. Most of the members here are experts but I am joining now and will start where you suggest. Thanks for posting this thread give it a little time and more will join.. I am going to get the gear and get started .. I will continue to post my project as I go a long.. Don't give up on me yet..thanks...

mosquito56

Welcome to the prop family. I was afraid we wouldn't get new users. Yes sometimes newbies get smacked. Paul from Parallax had tried to stop it but it seems that the newbies just don't post. Don't give up, you never know how much you help another newbie by asking a question.

rather than make this thread a mile long, I grabbed the first 2 pages for myself. Keep checking them every few days since I will add up there anything new.

· Added Philadil's recommendations on where to buy

· Added Desivia recomendation to use simple adc to learn on.

·Add the search problem with link to parallax site search.

http://search.parallax.com/search?

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······· "What do you mean, it doesn't have any tubes?"

······· "No such thing as a dumb question" unless it's on the internet

Technologically challenged individual, Please have pity.

Post Edited (mosquito56) : 1/21/2008 12:06:39 AM GMT

Catspaw

Let me get this straight about Hydra. Hydra is more than just the Prop, geared for gaming. But the Hydra manual would be useful for most general aspects of using the Prop? (whether you are interested in gaming or not?)

Aside:

I guess these products are not really for newcomers to electronics. So, I could see where the experienced might want to beat up on the newbies. Guess it's a fine line being as there are plenty of basic electronics sights out there. I wouldn't think this sight is here to teach ohm's law. But then there's those pesky little nuances that can trip you up.

The thing I'm finding somewhat troublesome is understanding the nmemonics. I have also found that data sheets have changed quite a bit also. It will take me some translation time from the old style. I'm finding many of the tables and such don't present the info in what I would consider a sectional or organized way. (I used to write test requirement and procedure specifications so I kinda got particular about how info is presented.) I see that it's all there but I personally like they way they used to do it.

I don't have any trouble finding parts. I can fabricate my own boxes. I have chips locked away somewhere that were made before a lot of people on here were born. It's nice to know I've been dragging them around for a reason.

dang! have I got alot of catching up to do. wish all this stuff had been around when I was really active in this.

deSilva

Catspaw said...
I have chips locked away somewhere that were made before a lot of people on here were born.

Don't think that... I have the impression the MANY active members here are thrice the age of the typical internet hiIamanewbie

lairdt

Catspaw said...
I don't have any trouble finding parts. I can fabricate my own boxes. I have chips locked away somewhere that were made before a lot of people on here were born. It's nice to know I've been dragging them around for a reason.

dang! have I got alot of catching up to do. wish all this stuff had been around when I was really active in this.

Know the feeling! I knew I gutted my Z80, C64 and C128's for a reason - with the Prop I'm finally considering actually using some of the chips! Silly to consider, but still fun... perhaps as decoration..

I don't see this forum as really against newbies... all forums have an attitude barrier that you need to get past, it's no different here. I've asked some really newb questons here and had a decent return most of the time - I'm a real newbie to the hardware stuff since it's changed so much since I last did anything, but I'm not a newbie on the software side of things (other than learning yet another programming language).

I probably have about as much total time working with the Prop environment as·Mr Green·does in his typical 300hr week, but I'm still having fun. I've built a sump pump controller as my first project (simple but functional), working on an autonomous robot project I've wanted for years (tracking the MoonX project stuff too). Plenty to do, and with the little time I have to spend I can actually get some very good results from the Prop, and most often I get the info I need from looking at the forum (without question) or existing code.

I started with the Prop Educational Kit and have added new stuff from there, even getting into SMT now - enjoy the ride at your own pace.

Philldapill

We need some Analog-to-Digital discussion on this post; namely hardware methods using discrete components rather than using a single ADC chip. Anyone want to contribute your two cents?(deSilva, Mike Green lol)

mosquito56

·Why can't we do it on another thread dude. Talk about off topic. Chicken!!!! LOL

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······· "What do you mean, it doesn't have any tubes?"

······· "No such thing as a dumb question" unless it's on the internet

Technologically challenged individual, Please have pity.

quickster47

"Catspaw said...
I have chips locked away somewhere that were made before a lot of people on here were born.

Don't think that... I have the impression the MANY active members here are thrice the age of the typical internet hiIamanewbie"

So true. [noparse]:)[/noparse] I still have an Intel 4004 and a 8008 processor in my archived chip collection.

Carl

Harley

from another 'old timer',

I have some RCA1802's too. And there were some 1802s still going running outside the Solar System, last I heard. Early CMOS guys.

Sentimentally yours,

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Harley Shanko

deSilva

Hmm, I still have some core memory module here somewhere, they used already transistors at that time.. The cores needed a lot of current.. Alas, I could never lay my hands on a Williams/Kilburn tube