Aries Correct-a-Chip Adapters use surface-mounted pins to make more room for the SMD on top. I'm not sure how robust the pins are. It most likely depends on the surface area of the pads. But something like this might allow the Prop II chip more room to spread out.
As an alternative, if a complete package is still too big for a DIP carrier, there's always the "glob-top" chip-on-board approach. I don't know at what volumes this becomes feasible, but I've seen some really cheap devices from China that use it.
-Phil
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 1/13/2008 4:20:45 AM GMT
If Parallax is paying taxes on inventory, they might consider picking up and moving to a different state. If the legislators up here in Washington tried that, there'd be angry mobs in front of the Capitol, armed with torches and pitchforks. (Of course, we do have a B&O tax on gross sales... but no state income tax. )
Paul Baker (Parallax) said...
Ok, your expectations are a little clearer now, yes we will look into whether it is possible to provide a compatible version with the current chip.
Heh. Actually that was more of an attempt to convince your marketing department to produce something breadboard-compatible. [noparse]:D[/noparse]
I like Paul's idea about the SIMM connectors. I could live with that if I have to.
I also agree with Paul that if Parallax were to offer a large DIP product with pins already on it, they'd surely have to unfairly eat a bunch of them just because monkeys with fat thumbs broke a bunch of pins. Monkeys should eat their own breakage.
My favorite idea of all is still what Hippy just mentioned again. A bare bones DIP-kit carrier PCB. Nothing on it but the Prop 2. Assuming or course that it's only sold with the understanding that the user solders the pins on himself, and they'd come with the board. We eliminate the possibility that Parallax would have to eat monkey breakage, because if YOU solder it, and YOU break it, then YOU eat it. Simple as that. Or you fix it yourself, which is what everyone would do when they have no one else to blame. And if it has about 1/8 of an inch of un-plated board space along the edges just outside of the pin holes, you can carefully pry it up with a screw driver at several places along it's length. Anyone willing to solder his own pins will understand the somewhat delicate situation of plugging and un plugging such a device in a breadboard, so I doubt it's a problem.
Also I think that most hobbyist or anyone doing serious development work on a breadboard already owns, (or needs to own anyway) a prop plug, the voltage regulators, and everything else to hook up a working system anyway, so the fact that Parallax can supply these other items cheaper than we can buy them separately, is not really an issue. Why should the breadboard crowd buy duplicates of parts most of them already have anyway?
This DIP carrier PCB idea is dirt cheap, and does not compete with sales of products like the Propstick USB, where the buyer WANTS to buy all the other components of a working system. It's so easy to test before it's sold that there's no reason why Parallax should ever have to take a single one back. You could even sell it with a No-Return policy because it's really a kit. It's still my top choice.
Brain L said...
This DIP carrier PCB idea is dirt cheap, and does not compete with sales of products like the Propstick USB, where the buyer WANTS to buy all the other components of a working system. It's so easy to test before it's sold that there's no reason why Parallax should ever have to take a single one back. You could even sell it with a No-Return policy because it's really a kit. It's still my top choice.
Agreed. If Parallax does this I'll be totally satisfied. They wouldn't even have to provide the header pins. They're pretty cheap and others may want to solder on sockets instead (header pins inserted into the sockets - if they break you remove and put new header pins in - simply no?).
Brian L said...
Also I think that most hobbyist or anyone doing serious development work on a breadboard already owns, (or needs to own anyway) a prop plug, the voltage regulators, and everything else to hook up a working system anyway, so the fact that Parallax can supply these other items cheaper than we can buy them separately, is not really an issue. Why should the breadboard crowd buy duplicates of parts most of them already have anyway?
That's entirely valid in some case, not necessarily in all where people don't have the parts, find it hard or expensive to get those parts and Parallax can deliver massively more cheaply. For those, everything supplied is the advantage.
What it highlights is that a single product is unlikely to satisfy all requirements, so maybe two products based on a common theme for each market.
PS : I don't mean needs USB/PropPlug on board, just Eeprom, 3V3/1V8 regulators, crystal.
Paul Baker (Parallax) said...
so even if we can fit the next chip into the space the on board USB may need to be sacrificed to make room for an additional regulator (or require a regulated 3.3V supply be provided on Vin).
Comments
As an alternative, if a complete package is still too big for a DIP carrier, there's always the "glob-top" chip-on-board approach. I don't know at what volumes this becomes feasible, but I've seen some really cheap devices from China that use it.
-Phil
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 1/13/2008 4:20:45 AM GMT
If Parallax is paying taxes on inventory, they might consider picking up and moving to a different state. If the legislators up here in Washington tried that, there'd be angry mobs in front of the Capitol, armed with torches and pitchforks. (Of course, we do have a B&O tax on gross sales...
-Phil
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
I also agree with Paul that if Parallax were to offer a large DIP product with pins already on it, they'd surely have to unfairly eat a bunch of them just because monkeys with fat thumbs broke a bunch of pins. Monkeys should eat their own breakage.
My favorite idea of all is still what Hippy just mentioned again. A bare bones DIP-kit carrier PCB. Nothing on it but the Prop 2. Assuming or course that it's only sold with the understanding that the user solders the pins on himself, and they'd come with the board. We eliminate the possibility that Parallax would have to eat monkey breakage, because if YOU solder it, and YOU break it, then YOU eat it. Simple as that. Or you fix it yourself, which is what everyone would do when they have no one else to blame. And if it has about 1/8 of an inch of un-plated board space along the edges just outside of the pin holes, you can carefully pry it up with a screw driver at several places along it's length. Anyone willing to solder his own pins will understand the somewhat delicate situation of plugging and un plugging such a device in a breadboard, so I doubt it's a problem.
Also I think that most hobbyist or anyone doing serious development work on a breadboard already owns, (or needs to own anyway) a prop plug, the voltage regulators, and everything else to hook up a working system anyway, so the fact that Parallax can supply these other items cheaper than we can buy them separately, is not really an issue. Why should the breadboard crowd buy duplicates of parts most of them already have anyway?
This DIP carrier PCB idea is dirt cheap, and does not compete with sales of products like the Propstick USB, where the buyer WANTS to buy all the other components of a working system. It's so easy to test before it's sold that there's no reason why Parallax should ever have to take a single one back. You could even sell it with a No-Return policy because it's really a kit. It's still my top choice.
Post Edited (Brian L) : 1/13/2008 4:52:24 AM GMT
That's entirely valid in some case, not necessarily in all where people don't have the parts, find it hard or expensive to get those parts and Parallax can deliver massively more cheaply. For those, everything supplied is the advantage.
What it highlights is that a single product is unlikely to satisfy all requirements, so maybe two products based on a common theme for each market.
PS : I don't mean needs USB/PropPlug on board, just Eeprom, 3V3/1V8 regulators, crystal.
Post Edited (hippy) : 1/13/2008 3:29:15 PM GMT
GOOD!!