Here we go with Linux
LoopyByteloose
Posts: 12,537
For years, I have had issues with laptops being too big and too heavy for me to carry daily [noparse][[/noparse]in order to read ebooks]. The solution became available with Linux rather than XP. It was very reasonable too, less than $400USD.
I just purchased one black ASUS EeePC as my Christmas gift to me. This is a 0.94 kilogram Linux driven 'mini' laptop delivered with Open Office including three USB ports, an SD card holder, Wifi, modem, audio, mike, camera, LAN interface, etc. No harddisk - all solid-state memory [noparse][[/noparse]512K ram and 4G 'disk' - but both can be doubled].
So far, I am quite please and now I am going to try to install the Linux version PBasic software and use a USB port drive an RS232 adapter.
This will enable me to program and test BasicStamps just about anywhere. Any tips on the Linux installation would be appreciated.
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I just purchased one black ASUS EeePC as my Christmas gift to me. This is a 0.94 kilogram Linux driven 'mini' laptop delivered with Open Office including three USB ports, an SD card holder, Wifi, modem, audio, mike, camera, LAN interface, etc. No harddisk - all solid-state memory [noparse][[/noparse]512K ram and 4G 'disk' - but both can be doubled].
So far, I am quite please and now I am going to try to install the Linux version PBasic software and use a USB port drive an RS232 adapter.
This will enable me to program and test BasicStamps just about anywhere. Any tips on the Linux installation would be appreciated.
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···················· Tropically,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
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- Stephen
Regards,
Craig
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My system: 1.6 GHz AMD Turion64 X2, 4GB DDR2, 256MB ATI Radeon Graphics card, 15.4" Widescreen HD Screen
I have a duel boot of Ubuntu Linux and Windows Vista. Vista, because it came with the PC, Ubuntu because I like software that works.
"Failure is not an option -- it comes bundled with Windows."
Use The Best...
Linux for Servers
Mac for Graphics
Palm for Mobility
Windows for Solitaire
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~~ dRu ~~
Post Edited (dRudRudRu) : 3/29/2009 3:19:16 AM GMT
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Shawn Lowe
Maybe I should have waited to do that......
Anyway, it IS possible to install a 'cut down' version of XP on them, and it may even be able to get it pre-installed with XP if you order the most expensive model.
(It may be that the model with XP on hasn't been released, yet.)
Until then, I'll lug around my 2Kg iBook(12" LCD, Mac OS X and GuestPC) or my 1.2Kg HP/Compaq nc2400(12" WideLCD WinXP/Windows Vista)
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Don't visit my new website...
Take a look at Asus's Manual for the EeePC and you will see that it has instructions for installing XP. I like the idea of the 2.5" USB drive and I happened to buy the empty case a month ago for $10USD, but haven't picked up a harddrive for it yet - maybe 250Gbyte to allow me to store my Ghost images for a rainy day.
The dilemmas of switching to XP are that it is only 4Gbytes [noparse][[/noparse]or possibly 8Gbytes] and I am still getting XPWindows that lock up [noparse][[/noparse]the 'not responding' message]·which require me to reboot the XP. These lock ups may all be in IE and shifting to Firefox which·might resolve it [noparse][[/noparse]I am investigating running both right now], but why pay for something that is less stable than a free OS unless you must? It does have Samba installed, so it will share files with an XP computer [noparse][[/noparse]not sure that Vista works with Samba] via a cross-over cable or router.
The Linux distribution is Xandros - maybe not as good as others, but it is bundled nicely in a preinstalled setup and I can switch between Chinese and English supported operating systems [noparse][[/noparse]which I cannot do in XP]. They use KDE, but I cannot seem to get the multiple desktops I'd like to have [noparse][[/noparse]which Windows doesn't have either]. I suspect that you can load any version of Linux on it that you prefer and use something beside OpenOffice. Since the BIOS is for an Intel chipset, it is pretty much the same.· There real question marks would be how the USB ports set up CD, DVD, LAN, modem, Wifi,·and external harddrive.
I do appreciate that WindowsXP is the defacto development OS these days, but Linux offers me a lot more support for exploration in the form of available reading material - so I learn faster. Many things that I could not fathom on Windows, have become clear by first reading and learning how Linux does it. Linux also is more feature rich. In Windows, you cannot compare whole directories or compare 3 files, while in Linux you can do so and much more. Unix roots run deep into Linux. In many ways, Linux and Parallax share the common trait of being most learner oriented. Java is pretty good too. So, I may eventually try to put Java for Linux on board.
Mostly, I just love the physical package as I can finally carry it with me daily for reading material and occasional net surfing. It is an ultimate vacation computer too. And not having a mechanical HD is more rugged.
I am more and more dependent on ebooks [noparse][[/noparse]shipping books to Asia is a huge expense] for reading and my Palm is just too tiny for reading PDFS. PDFS can NOT change font size - unlike other documents; so you can only zoom in and out. The disadvantages are that you cannot maintain phrases of text when you zoom in too much and graphic or chart images become a mere peep hole view of the information. The EeePC has just about the minimum screen size for enjoying such material. It works well for me with reading glasses, but others might want a larger screen.
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Post Edited (Kramer) : 1/2/2008 1:13:15 PM GMT
Get hold of a Psion...
In fact, with my netBook I can also MAKE them...
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Don't visit my new website...
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Equipped with his 5 senses, man explores the world around and calls his adventure science
·
-Edwin Hubble
·
I still have a desire for the injoyment of electronic design and prototyping and need to purchase more tools like the Laserjet printer, I already have a photosmart printer inkjet but no good for pcb.
You· answered a lot of questions for me on the last post of 2006. I don't expect you to remember those questions but how do we get back to that same project which I am still working on.
Allie
I am happy to know that I helped out. We all drift in and out as other things in our lives require more attention.
Superworms,
The EeePC of 4-5 months ago has been changing as they have brought it to market. It is a better, but more costly machine. I would never get the 2Gbyte machine as it just has no space left for applications after the OS. The 4Gbyte is much more realistic, but 8Gbytes with 1Gbyte of Ram is optimal. This product appears to be a failed attempt at producing a cheap machine for the 3rd world - both prices and specifications crept up. But it reminds me a an early Radio Shack notebook that was ultra popular with journalist because they could write stories in the field and get them to press before deadlines via modem. It seems that journalist want the cheapest, smallest platform they can get because theft and damage are on-going issues. I must say that I really like having good quality Skype, though it is currently not supporting the video camera in Xandros Linux. One can travel world-wide, and use any Wifi hot spot to call home for free.
FYI - Microsoft apparently is providing a special $40 version of XP for it. It comes only with the Xandros Linux. Since the XP requires a CD to USB interface to install, I strongly suggest that you have the seller install the XP at the shop and save yourself a hassle or more costs. And get the black case if at all possible. It is likely to outlast keeping its new appearance than white and pastel colors.
Back to EeePC stuff.
If anybody really wants a good explanation of the EeePC, Wikipedia seems quite up-to-date. There are limitations with Linux as Xandros seems to want to hold back some code to disallow competitive Linux installations. Also, Xandros Linux may be partially in ROM, not RAM. Read the Wiki and I strongly suggest that you keep a copy for reference if you buy an EeePC as some things only become clearer after you try to do something and cannot. ASUS is not currently documenting these gritty issues and I suspect they never will.
Back to Alle.
Also, If anyone is interested in making transparencies for circuit board, I made the mistake of replacing my HP Inkjet with a Cannon and cannot print transparencies that work well for photo etching printed circuit board. Before I could easily go from Eagle to finished product, but the ink in the Cannon beads up and doesn't flow smoothing on transparency material. My laser printer will print the transparencies clearly, but are not dense enough for photo exposure. In sum, only the HPinkjets work for me, seems they added an emulsifier to the ink.
Overall, I am still quite happy with the EeePC for my particular situation and I can write preliminary drafts of programs to later cut and paste on my XP machine, but I think I am going to try to get it to run Windows programs with Linux so that I can attempt to use all of the Parallax IDEs [noparse][[/noparse]BasicStamp, SX, and Propeller] on it. The Propeller is quite important to me as it does so much more. I'd much rather retain the feature rich Parallax software than to downgrade to something else. Also, there tends to be delay in the repair and development of Parallax supporting Linux software. So the 8Gbyte with XP would likely be the easiest set up [noparse][[/noparse]I just couldn't get a black case in that set up.]
For now,
I see that I can get Linux drivers for USB to RS232, but I haven't had time to attempt to install and see what happens. I also have to figure out the RS232 Linux software to support the hardware.
Happly, I can smoothly run file sharing between the EeePC and my XP system [noparse][[/noparse]another Asus product] via the LAN interface. In fact, it was easier to set up than getting Vista to share with XP. Since the Linux is set up for WORKGROUP by default, rather than MSHOME, there is an implied ability to support file and printer sharing with Vista.
Thanks Gadgetman..
I will take a look at Psion. I was using Abobe's software for Palm to create PDFs adapted to the Palm platform. Mobilepocket has been trying to get me to buy another product for some time, but I figured that Adobe would know how to do this better than others. If Psion is substantially better, there are times I will use it. Silly as it seems, I am now carrying both my Palm and the EeePC. This is mainly because of Pleco's wonderful PDA Chinese dictionary software that allows me to read street signs and menus on the spur of the moment. Their graphic user interface allows you to easily write Chinese characters as you see them.
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Equipped with his 5 senses, man explores the world around and calls his adventure science
·
-Edwin Hubble
·
More is being revealed.
A lot of things are evolving with the EeePC - even other Linux choices and ways to eventually up-grade memory via DIY. I think it is winner with a very complex starting history. ASUS is a major Asian branded player in motherboards and complete PCs that attract a premium price for being better than average quality. From what I have read, they are really trying to make this flexible and use any Linux, WindowsXP, or Apple.
If you really want to follow this, try www.eeeuser.com for the unofficial website. I am now roaming around with it and logging in via Wifi. 350,000 units reportedly sold and new larger 7200 ma battery packs are coming available. The only thing that seems queer is the 900mhz processor is being clocked at 630mhz. That may have been a concession to reducing emissions in order to export world-wide [noparse][[/noparse]Germany is very picky about such].
If you want to open it up and add memory, try to locate a serial number starting with 7A, not the 7B [noparse][[/noparse]which i got] With the 7B, soldering is required as a plug was omitted.
Since this configuration is very quick to start, I think I'll hang back and enjoy it as is for quite a while. But, there seems to be a growing community of hackers that want to make this fit their own needs in many ways. So if you want to change something yourself, there is likely going to be someone else that is doing so or has done so. Solidstate harddisks may eventually upgrade to 32Gbyte as a refit.
Apparently Debian software applications can be added into it. Of course there is only room for so many goodies.
For me, it now allows me to surf the internet and keep communications up while use my XP for development at the same time. Not much more to report in regard to actually programing Parallax devices with it. [noparse][[/noparse]Stick with the XP for IDEs].
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I, too, have picked up the ASUS EeePC ( 4G + 2 GB SanDisk) and have found it to to be a great unit for portable applications. So far the compatibility to my Windows XP/Vista apps has been fine using thumb drives.
I have toyed with the idea of getting the Stamp IDE to run and was wondering if anyone has done this exercise in some form.
I see there is one or more unsupported versions downloadable on the Parallax site and elsewhere. Any stories to tell?
As an alternative, there is an application called Wine which appears to allow the standard IDE to run as a Windows program on the Linux machine. Any experience with this possibility?
Cheers,
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Tom Sisk
http://www.siskconsult.com
·
I'd really like to see the Propeller environment running natively on this machine. I'm using a couple other (non-Parallax) environments without any issues (other than small screen size). One of them is for a microcontroller and uses a usb-serial interface based on the FTDI chipset and I have not had any problems downloading programs.
I have limited experience with the Propeller and would certainly like more. If I can run the environment natively on this machine, that would be a major convenience. I have not experimented with using Wine for this. I have heard that some programs have issues with the comm routines in different versions of Wine.
In summary, if you stay with Xandros, you may have to move your compiled programs to a WindowsXP computer for downloads or write your own downloader in Python or something.
I am happy to see that the WindowsXP for the EEE is solid. Since that too is reputed to cost $40 USD, why bother with WINE. My problem is that some local stores are saying the XP is $80USD. So, I am pondering my fate and really enjoying learning Xandros Linux. In many ways, I am sick of Microsoft products and their reaching into my pocketbook.
By the way, I unintentionally gave me EEE the 1 meter high spin and drop on concrete test. It landed in the soft case and on the left hinge corner. Aside from one tiny cosmetic ding, no damage. That is a lot better than my Song CLIE which was trashed after only 3 weeks of use by slipping off a table top and landing in a simlar fashion.
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My! You are certainly getting a lot of response! In fact, some of the points that I'm about to make may have already been covered. If so, i'm sorry for the re-hash...
The method of installing tools to program Stamps varies with the distro. A good place to start is Sourceforge.net. You may need to persevere; Linux, in all its forms has maximum flexibility, and therefore maximum chance to do it some other way!
If you are familiar with Linux, this will be old hat, but I wan't when I did it, so here goes. Make a directory for bstamp and move the the downloaded tarball to that directory before you un-tar it. Otherwise you'll spend days chasing permission and dependencies problems. By the way, the directory tree for Fedora 7 that seems to work best is /usr/local/bstamp.
The tokenizer does NOT support BS2px at this time. It does support the others, with a "gotcha" built in. The program that loads the tokens into the Stamp (bstamp_run if you are using the utilities provided by Esmonde-White and SourceForge.net) does not recognize the current version of BS2pe (and probably others as well) I had to add a module to the source code in order to use the BS2pe.
DEBUGIN has to be handled differently than in Windows, but is simple enough. I open a terminal session and use the echo command as follows: [noparse][[/noparse]terry@trailer]$ echo "input to Stamp" > /dev/ttyS0
ttyS0 is the serial port that I use (equivalent to COM1) DEBUG (from the Stamp) appears in the terminal session that you did bstamp_run from...
Regards,
Terry
PS tried Wine, and cannot get it to work properly with the serial ports. YMMV... It seems to work for a number of people.
Post Edited (terry_bear) : 2/19/2008 5:18:42 PM GMT
It seems we have somewhat covered the PBasic and SPIN. As it stands, I am leaning more toward just converting the WindowsXP in my AsusEEE rather than having several piecemeal solutions. I do have a BS-24px along with other Stamps, the Propeller, SX-28s, and SX-40s.
But, I did read that Microsoft was making a special concession to Asus to sell the XP for $40. Did they back out or are the vendors adding a big surcharge? Maybe the vendors haven't gotten the word. If that is the case, we all need to demand the $40 price.
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1. Attempt to use their free WINE version with all three Parallax products.
2. If it becomes obvious that the DLL limitations are involved, buy Crossover and attempt to install all three products with that.
Basically, you need three sets of functional DLLs - Word processing in a Windows-like GUI, Serial I/O support, and proprietary DLLs provided from Parallax for their particular IDEs. It seems to me that the Serial I/O for programming purposes is the hang up as EEPROMs require specialized adaptions of timing and control.
In other words, I strong suspect you can get WINE to allow you to edit and compile programs for all three, but the downloads are problematic as the BasicStamp, the SX, and the Propeller all have a different approach to downloading and you will have to dig for details.
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Out of the box, it comes in 'Simple mode' and can only install programs provided by Asus/Xandros. You have to move over to 'Advanced Mode' to have it ready to install any other Linux applications. Of course, that is not simple.
MicrosoftXP still seems easier than a WINE solution and apparently the video resolution gets higher than 800X600. Also, a new AsusEEE900 is soon to be released with a larger screen in the same size overall. But it is $600USD, not $3-400.
Out of the box, using it on the internet will NOT protect Windows files from hackers. It is possible to get into the Root directory and cause havoc. This is all due to the original Samba configuraton. Options to fix it are update to a better, now available version of Samba, turn off Samba when working on the net without a firewall provided by a router, or remove Samba and not have file sharing.
So it seems that anyone that wants to stay with the Xandros Linux has to update Samba, shift over to Advanced mode, and learn one's way around all the low level code choices.
Microsoft just lowered prices for Vista, so hopefully XP for the AsusEEE is now available at a reasonable price as well.
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The new one looks bigger than the old to me. I guess I need to revisit the pictures.
The Samba update doesn't appear to be very difficult, but I haven't done it yet.
I think this is making it sound like more work than it has to be, but I will admit that a willingness to go to a terminal window to set some things up does help.
I have a couple of programming IDEs running on mine (for Processing and Arduino) that work very well - given the limitations of the smaller screen. I've done a fair amount of developing for these on my EEE PC (more than on a normal desktop or laptop, actually). I'm still familiarizing myself with the languages. I've got plenty of experience with others, but these are relatively new to me. I would like to add Propeller development to this same platform. I find it very convenient to work on code wherever I am in any free time I get - without needing a larger machine around.
I keep thinking about installing XP on the EEE, but I haven't gotten around to it. I do not want to install it over the default OS, so it will need to be on a booting USB key. That requires more work to set up than on the internal SSD. So far, I really haven't needed it for anything but if I can't get a Linux version of some things (like a Propeller compiler), I will probably need to do it sometime.
It is good to know that some things can install in Simple mode. I suspect the BasicStamp Tokenizer might and I should try it. I have doubts that WINE could do so as it is more involved with the whole GUI system.
I haven't updated Samba [noparse][[/noparse]but intend to do so as the Wifi is the handiest feature of the whole device] and I haven't gone to Advanced mode either. Apparently, you can get a 'binary image' to reload if you want to go back to the original Xandros Linux from wherever you might wander.
All things considered, I really would like to stay with Linux just for the experience. If one doesn't have to work with a Linux system, one never learns it. The user community is pretty good, but some complain that Xandros does updates very slowly [noparse][[/noparse]over a year inbetween as compared to Ubuntu having semi-annual updates]. Some people are wanting tomigrate to Ubuntu, but Xandros seems to be the only one that fully understands the hardware involved.
The biggest problems are that there is tons of jargon to learn and the Linux community is divided into different vendor versions. But those things seem small compared to the learning opportunities.
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As far as backing up the machine so you can revert after trying things, this is the approach that I've taken (bear in mind that I haven't actually tried to restore yet):
I use Acronis Truimage on other computers (Windows machines). I've created a boot cd from this. You can boot from this cd and backup the drives on the machine you are booting on.
So, I connect a USB DVD drive to my EEE PC (normal 5 1/4 drive in an external box). I also connect a USB hard drive. When I start up the EEE PC, I tell it to boot from the CD. It comes up running Acronis. Then, all I need to do is select the SSD and tell it to write a backup to the hard drive. The whole process was very smooth. Since it involved things I already had, no extra expense was incurred.
The same boot cd can be used to restore the backup from the hard drive to the SSD.
Note: The DVD drive was powered externally. The hard drive was powered by the EEE PC. The EEE PC was plugged into the wall at the time.
Now it is on to the Advanced Mode change over. After a lot of thought about it, I really want to keep this in Linux, so I think I will try to get the commerial WINE on board and see if I can use all of Parallax's IDEs thorugh it. While there is a nice Tokenizer for the BasicStamp that is in Linux, I really would like to have the complete functionality that Parallax's Windows software provides for the Editors.
With these tiny huge capacity hard-drives, this machine keeps getting better and better. I have DVD/CD rom burner that I can connect and burn Backups. But, mostly I was concerned with inadvertently ruining the Linux system and having nothing to start over with.
I've got an older version of Norton Ghost that may do the same as Acronis, but as I recall - it demands to boot from A: or B: [noparse][[/noparse]a floppy]. Norton Ghost documentation is very clear to point out that using it in Linux is no where near as simple as Windows and at that time, only some disk formats were supported. Acronis seems a better option as I am weary of Symantec.
For now, I merely shuttle files back and forth over my LAN and keep all the important stuff on my home PC which carrying duplicates. After all, I might leave this at a bus stop or something.
SSD backups seem the nicest of all. I don't trust CDs to age well and that is aar less clutter in my world.
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I am very please with this as I was wondering where a real clipboard was and a few other items. There are here. There is an installation Wiki to upgrade.
Now I just have to get WINE and all the Parallax IDEs.
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I added the start menu (it's in the www.eeeuser.com wiki) to my simple interface. It's configured with a text file but the example file (which contains a number of things that don't work) does include the ability to use multiple desktops. I think that most things you can do in advanced mode can probably also be done in simple mode - just by taking a different approach (i.e., you can probably even do multiple desktops by typing at a command prompt if you know what to type).
Using codeweavers crossover on a mac I have problems with line numbers not working properly (so I switch them off), find doesn't work properly, you can't use the propeller tool to program the propeller (I use the python script posted by Mike Green) and the box that shows the hex dump of compiled objects does not work (no big deal really, I think it is related to the line numbers). Would be interesting if you get the same problems on linux.
I'm still struggling with getting the Propeller Tool into Linux. I did get Codeweaver's demo software for Crossover Linux and I've 30-days to try.
I've been distracted by learning more about Linux in general and the Asus EeePC in particular. One thing is certain, the 4Gbyte model and above have a better microprocessor. Apparently, the 800Mhz processor on the 2G models last a Level II Cashe. It seems there have been more complaints about the 2G operatablity on the eeeesuser.com site.
So, I have worked through getting rid of a security flaw in the Samba code, up-graded the interface to a genuine Desktop mode, installed Crossover Linux [noparse][[/noparse]Wine], and even gotten a backup image onto an SDcard.
The preliminary trial run to install Propeller flopped a few days ago, but I just tried to let Crossover Linux do it all. I may have to create a separate 'bottle' for it [noparse][[/noparse]I guess this is a bit like Java's 'jar'].
I've got all the Parallax IDE install programs loaded on to it and waiting my attention.
Anyway, I really am enjoying Linux and this machine as it seems very stable and fun to use.
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I've got Codeweaver's Crossover Linux [noparse][[/noparse]WINE] installed and installed Internet Explorer 6.0 working as proof of concept. That Windows application works fine and Codeweaver's recommended installing it to accumulate useful .dll files.
But, I've hit a new twist in the long learning curve. The Asus EeePC provides ClamAV, an antivirus program. It jumps into the installation and is now saying that all three of the Parallax applications have the same virus and aborts installation. I am using a separate bottle as recommended.
Right now I'm trying to bypass ClamAV and install anyway. Maybe I'll have it working in the next few days with one or more of the Parallax applications. BTW, the Propeller IDE is likely to be more demanding because it requires the installation of its own font as well as other items.
When all that is done, there is still the question of installing Linux support for USB to RS232.
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PLEASE CONSIDER the following:
Do you want a quickly operational black box solution or the knowledge included therein?······