P2D2 with P2-revB - taking orders!

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  • I'd like one. I'm also in Tennessee.
  • JRoark wrote: »
    There have been multiple requests for pricing info, but I still havent seen a response. Is this perhaps a prohibition of the TOS? If so, PM me. :)

    I *definitely* want a max’d out board. Pretty please. Texas, USA here.

    Maybe it's a case of "if you have to know the price you can't afford it".

  • David Betz wrote: »
    JRoark wrote: »
    There have been multiple requests for pricing info, but I still havent seen a response. Is this perhaps a prohibition of the TOS? If so, PM me. :)

    I *definitely* want a max’d out board. Pretty please. Texas, USA here.

    Maybe it's a case of "if you have to know the price you can't afford it".

    I suppose that is a possibility, but presumably Peter wants to get paid for his amazing efforts, so there will need to be a discussion at some point about dead presidents. And of course on my end, I have learned it is always best to tell SWMBO’d (she who must be obeyed) well in advance of any proposed gadget arrivals so there are no “misunderstandings”. Hehehe.



  • I'm sure Peter's price will be fair. I will probably order one as long as the price isn't too high and if there are still any left by the time the price is announced. When it comes time, I'd like a fully loaded board as well.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 9,817
    edited 2019-11-06 - 03:04:06
    When do the Parallax boards go up for sale? I want one of each to start this next revision?

    Originally, I said RTC, bit why not go with the works? Put me down for one, in the USA, all options, and I can wait for second batch, if needed.

    Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball! @opengeekorg ---> Be Excellent To One Another SKYPE = acuity_doug
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  • Lots of interest in the P2D2. @Peter Jakacki are you getting all our requested P2D2 boards SMD assembled somewhere or doing it yourself? It could be quite a lot of work for you if it's the latter (looks like 30-40 boards already requested), though I think you mentioned some time back you had a reflow oven for the SMD parts, or perhaps that was Cluso. Regardless, all that pick and place of small parts could become somewhat tedious if you are doing everything yourself. Perhaps <50 boards is too low a number to justify external assembly costs, I don't really know the breakeven point.
  • Peter JakackiPeter Jakacki Posts: 8,725
    edited 2019-11-06 - 04:58:30
    I anguish over making these boards affordable but at the same time being realistic that this is a small run and the need to make it a sustainable production. I wanted to test out one board properly first before I commit just to make sure everything was as I said it would be. I've had a hiccup with the clock gen "option" which I want to make standard in that I need it to have a default clock at power up but that is a custom option which I can certainly have "in production" one way or another.

    The USB serial is implemented with a tiny EFM8 chip which can also configure the clock gen. I've had so much trouble trying to program the EFM8UB3 chip via USB even though it supports it, the tools are a mess and I can't get "Simplicity Studio" or the python loader to work properly even after a lot of tweaks (there's a mess with py2 vs py3 libraries etc) . In the end I hooked up the P2 to the C2 interface of the EFM8 and used TAQOZ to program it which worked. I still have more testing to do and thanks to @jmg for working on this side of things.

    Though I have some parts in quantity there are some parts I need to order so I will produce 10 units straight-up with this configuration:
    * 1MB Flash
    * microSD socket (P2 side)
    * 25MHZ crystal (no clock gen)
    * CP2102N USB serial (manual reset or external Prop plug)
    * dual 1A switcher (RevB doesn't ever need more than this)[1]
    * RTC + 11mF cap
    * 40x2 header socket (plugs into cheap pin headers)
    * LEDs, reset switch (P2 side)

    10 special units available this week at $60 (USD) each and to keep shipping costs down this may mean that I ship this as one thanks to @publison in the US.
    Add an extra $5/unit shipping to make that $65 and PayPal peterjakacki@gmail.com and you will have them next week.
    @Publison - I will include an extra module no charge just for you and one for Chip.

    In the meantime I may be able to load on the EFM8 chip which I'm still testing out but the CP2102N just means it will work as is and manual reset is what I favor myself.

    That way I can assemble and ship them this week without delay while I sort out the EFM8 and Si5351 etc which will then be standard. Remember that the USB chip doesn't take over the serial lines since they are coupled via resistors, you can always override them from the serial header or edge pins.

    While I like my low-profile 40 way socket headers it is also a PITA in that I have 8x2 and 4x2 sockets but they are not end-stackable and I need to find an easy way to machine a 4x2 down to fit in neatly between the 16x2 end ones. Making this connector standard means that the user can just use cheap pin headers on their matrix board or pcb, and also makes the module more durable and easy to package since it doesn't have any pins sticking out.


    After I have ordered some more parts this will be changes to the standard configuration.
    * 16MB Flash
    * Si5351A Clock gen set for 20MHz clock (default can be reconfigured via a TAQOZ routine).
    * EFM8UB3 USB serial and system monitor (controls SD power, monitors 1.8V, etc)
    Price is $70 (USD)

    Options are:
    * 64GB TAQOZ RELOADED SanDisk microSD ($16) [2]
    * 8MB SPI RAM (replaces Flash)

    After the first 50 units or earlier I will upgrade to 16MB Flash chips and any other improvements such as 200bpm timing that @jmg is suggesting, made possible by using the Si5351 to get the clock we need, and the EFM8 to load that configuration in during reset. If I'm not bleeding and I can drop the price, I will drop the price but I still need to leave a little headroom for discounting any bulk orders. While I love designing stuff, I hate working out how to best sell and ship it.

    Notes:
    [1] I used a 1A switcher for the 1.8V on the original RevA and even at extreme overclocking it was fine. I do have some 2A versions but they are being wasted on RevB (to our delight)
    [2] A 64GB card is only about double the price of a 16GB.

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  • evanhevanh Posts: 8,073
    edited 2019-11-06 - 06:28:55
    On revB silicon, it is possible to exceed 1.0 Amp on the 1.8 Volt supply even at 180 MHz. I got to about 1.8 Amps by exercising lots at 300 MHz. It was heating fast by then though.

    EDIT: Link https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/comment/1478835/#Comment_1478835

    EDIT2: Understand that if the software asks the prop2 revB silicon to do lots then it'll still need the lots of power to do it that the revA silicon needed. Maybe a little move even - the revB has more gates. The power saving from the "clock gating" feature is in the inactive times when the cogs are idling on a simple logic test or off altogether. HubRAM accesses are relatively power hungry.
    "We suspect that ALMA will allow us to observe this rare form of CO in many other discs.
    By doing that, we can more accurately measure their mass, and determine whether
    scientists have systematically been underestimating how much matter they contain."
  • As bad as I want one of these boards in hand, I will have to wait till Friday so will most likely miss out on the first run. The EFM8UB3 option is preferable to me anyway since quite a bit of my development is done remotely.

    I'm hoping when I place my order I can get a couple of blank PCBs (earlier revisions are fine) to help me with the physical design of my next pcb.

    Quite a feature packed design for an incredibly reasonable price. Great work @Peter Jakacki
  • evanh wrote: »
    On revB silicon, it is possible to exceed 1.0 Amp on the 1.8 Volt supply even at 180 MHz. I got to about 1.8 Amps by exercising lots at 300 MHz. It was heating fast by then though.

    EDIT: Link https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/comment/1478835/#Comment_1478835

    EDIT2: Understand that if the software asks the prop2 revB silicon to do lots then it'll still need the lots of power to do it that the revA silicon needed. Maybe a little move even - the revB has more gates. The power saving from the "clock gating" feature is in the inactive times when the cogs are idling on a simple logic test or off altogether. HubRAM accesses are relatively power hungry.
    My understanding of clock gating is that inactive parts of the chip don’t get the clocks.

    For a contrived example, the barrel shifter doesn’t get clocked if it’s not used. Neither does the logic ALU, same for arithmetic ALU, multiplier, etc etc. Now with any one instruction being executed, a number of these circuits are not in use so they don’t clock. This is how the power saving will be realised, now matter how you stress the chip.
    My Prop boards: P8XBlade2, RamBlade, CpuBlade, TriBlade
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  • jmg wrote: »
    dMajo wrote: »
    Its a shame that this was removed from the latest datasheet:
    4. Configuring the Si5351

    I've started a new thread for Si5351 here, maybe moderators can move any Si5351 comments from this order-thread to reduce clutter.

    The posts here are looking pretty intermingled with the thread. I'm not sure we can move them this time, but your link to the new thread is good, and if you didn't already you could mention this thread in the new one.

  • Cluso99 wrote: »
    My understanding of clock gating is that inactive parts of the chip don’t get the clocks.
    Yep, we're saying the same thing. The reason I'm highlighting this because it doesn't particularly reduce the potential maximum current draw on those voltage regulators. The power supply needs to be just as strong.

    "We suspect that ALMA will allow us to observe this rare form of CO in many other discs.
    By doing that, we can more accurately measure their mass, and determine whether
    scientists have systematically been underestimating how much matter they contain."
  • jmgjmg Posts: 14,019
    evanh wrote: »
    On revB silicon, it is possible to exceed 1.0 Amp on the 1.8 Volt supply even at 180 MHz. I got to about 1.8 Amps by exercising lots at 300 MHz. It was heating fast by then though.

    EDIT: Link https://forums.parallax.com/discussion/comment/1478835/#Comment_1478835

    EDIT2: Understand that if the software asks the prop2 revB silicon to do lots then it'll still need the lots of power to do it that the revA silicon needed. Maybe a little move even - the revB has more gates. The power saving from the "clock gating" feature is in the inactive times when the cogs are idling on a simple logic test or off altogether. HubRAM accesses are relatively power hungry.

    That's a good point about mA/MHz being active-gates related, and RevB has more, when they are all eventually active.

    It means the 2A SMPS switcher would be a better choice, as users can always 'throw a fan at it', but a sagging supply is more 'drop dead' in development.
  • Hi Peter, please put me down for one of the later “standard” versions, plus the loaded SanDisk microSD.

    As a complete P2 newbie, there’s no rush, I’m happy to wait until all the more regular contributors have had their’s delivered. :smile:

    I’m just keen to get in early with starting to explore the capabilities of this awesome new & long awaited Propeller.
  • Revising my request based on your recent posts.
    I'd like a standard setup plus the SD card. I didn't realize that the RAM would replace the flash, and I want the flash.
    Also, I am in the US so if that means getting in on a group order with Publison, then cool.
    I'd also prefer to wait for the later ones with the 16MB Flash, etc.
  • I know I'm way down on the list but I would be interested in one of the early boards if any remain unclaimed and probably also one of the later "standard" ones when they become available.
  • cheezus wrote: »
    As bad as I want one of these boards in hand, I will have to wait till Friday so will most likely miss out on the first run. The EFM8UB3 option is preferable to me anyway since quite a bit of my development is done remotely.

    I'm hoping when I place my order I can get a couple of blank PCBs (earlier revisions are fine) to help me with the physical design of my next pcb.

    Quite a feature packed design for an incredibly reasonable price. Great work @Peter Jakacki

    I still have 3 blank Rev A boards left. PM me your address and I'll stick one in an envelope.
  • @Peter Jakacki

    No hurry for a board - lots of other things to do - but if you let me know how to pay I'm happy to pay in advance. Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere and I missed it!

    Ross.

    Catalina - a FREE ANSI C compiler for the Propeller.
    Download it from http://catalina-c.sourceforge.net/
  • Peter,
    I am also revising my request based on your recent posts.
    I'd like a standard setup plus the fully loaded SD card.
    Also, I am in the US so if that means getting in on a group order with @Publison, then I am in.
    I'd also prefer to wait for the later ones with the 16MB Flash, etc.
    I am sending PayPal payment now for the later shipment.

    Thank you so much for your efforts in this matter.

    Bob

  • Standard for me, with SD. Like Roy, I am happy to wait for 16MB board. No rush, make sure those super eager get something in their hands.
    Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball! @opengeekorg ---> Be Excellent To One Another SKYPE = acuity_doug
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  • RossH wrote: »
    @Peter Jakacki

    No hurry for a board - lots of other things to do - but if you let me know how to pay I'm happy to pay in advance. Apologies if this has already been posted somewhere and I missed it!

    Ross.
    10 special units available this week at $60 (USD) each and to keep shipping costs down this may mean that I ship this as one thanks to @publison in the US.
    Add an extra $5/unit shipping to make that $65 and PayPal peterjakacki@gmail.com and you will have them next week.
  • potatohead wrote: »
    When do the Parallax boards go up for sale? I want one of each to start this next revision?

    Originally, I said RTC, bit why not go with the works? Put me down for one, in the USA, all options, and I can wait for second batch, if needed.

    Per Ken's Twitter feed:
    Propeller 2 (P2X8C4M64P-ES) being placed on a 191-unit run of evaluation boards. To be available Friday, November 8th along with P2 4-packs and accessory boards. Sign up for P2 Community news for updates https://www.parallax.com/company/follow-us@ParallaxInc
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 13,541
    edited 2019-11-06 - 16:00:25
    10 special units available this week at $60 (USD) each and to keep shipping costs down this may mean that I ship this as one thanks to @publison in the US.
    Add an extra $5/unit shipping to make that $65 and PayPal peterjakacki@gmail.com and you will have them next week.
    Does this price include the PayPal fee or should I be selecting "Sending to a Friend"?

    Edit: Never mind. I just sent my payment. If you need more to cover the PayPal fees just let me know and I'll send it.

  • The later, 16MB Flash option for me ($70 + $5)... No hurry!

    Thank you,
    dgately
    Livermore, CA (50 miles SE of San Francisco)
  • I do happen to have nine IS25LP128 16MB SPI Flash chips in stock that I can load on for those who have already ordered for the same price (I knew I put my foot in it when I mentioned that I would switch to 16MB Flash but I can't help it)

    If anyone prepays this week I will offer it with 16MB and still at the special price of $60 except only the first nine units will ship this week while I wait for more parts and ship those next week.

    As for the 1A regulator I chose this because realistically I wouldn't want to punish my P2 with all that heat nor would I expect most of my applications to be drawing anywhere near that figure except as extreme punishment bench tests. Nonetheless and while it seems a waste I will fit future units with the more expensive 2A versions although I think the P2 would melt trying to dissipate 10.8W (1.8Vx2 + 3.6x2).

    Unlike the P2EVAL which is designed to evaluate the P2 silicon itself and so has lots of heatsinking and jumpers to measure currents etc, the P2D2 is designed as an P2 application module that can be built into a product or used stand-alone.

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  • I do happen to have nine IS25LP128 16MB SPI Flash chips in stock that I can load on for those who have already ordered for the same price (I knew I put my foot in it when I mentioned that I would switch to 16MB Flash but I can't help it)

    If anyone prepays this week I will offer it with 16MB and still at the special price of $60 except only the first nine units will ship this week while I wait for more parts and ship those next week.

    As for the 1A regulator I chose this because realistically I wouldn't want to punish my P2 with all that heat nor would I expect most of my applications to be drawing anywhere near that figure except as extreme punishment bench tests. Nonetheless and while it seems a waste I will fit future units with the more expensive 2A versions although I think the P2 would melt trying to dissipate 10.8W (1.8Vx2 + 3.6x2).

    Unlike the P2EVAL which is designed to evaluate the P2 silicon itself and so has lots of heatsinking and jumpers to measure currents etc, the P2D2 is designed as an P2 application module that can be built into a product or used stand-alone.
    Cool! An upgrade to 16MB sounds good.

  • 16MB is great! Looking better all the time.
  • I am keen on the 2A regulator and 16MB flash and hopefully 20MHz capability, though I could potentially fit a different crystal with any luck.

    I need to play with 252MHz+ for DVI/HDMI etc, so won't want voltages to sag under heavier load. I doubt the 2A would be needed on the 3.3V rail, just good to have the headroom for the 1.8V rail under extreme situations.

  • jmgjmg Posts: 14,019
    Though I have some parts in quantity there are some parts I need to order so I will produce 10 units straight-up with this configuration:
    * 1MB Flash
    * microSD socket (P2 side)
    * 25MHZ crystal (no clock gen)
    ...
    If you are doing some early Xtal-only ones, you could consider a 20MHz xtal on those to keeps P2 boards consistent ?
    In my other thread on Si5351A, I've listed some 20MHz source candidates, at various places on the ppm/$ curves.


  • rogloh wrote: »
    I am keen on the 2A regulator and 16MB flash and hopefully 20MHz capability, though I could potentially fit a different crystal with any luck.

    I need to play with 252MHz+ for DVI/HDMI etc, so won't want voltages to sag under heavier load. I doubt the 2A would be needed on the 3.3V rail, just good to have the headroom for the 1.8V rail under extreme situations.

    I do have 2A regs available so I can make them up as well except with the clock gen fitted and you still have the option of removing the jumper resistor that couples the clock gen to the P2 and fit a crystal. What I can do is fit a custom part that ends up generating 22.222MHz at power-up but software, either from the EFM8 or the P2 can override this and set it to whatever you like.

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