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Are The Propeller Proto Boards Being Discontinued? — Parallax Forums

Are The Propeller Proto Boards Being Discontinued?

idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
edited 2014-10-08 22:25 in Propeller 1
The subject of Propeller Proto Boards possibly being discontinued came up in another thread and I am seeking a definite answer. Is it true that Parallax is discontinuing my beloved Proto Boards?
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Comments

  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-09-13 07:21
    I belive so Bruce:

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/157349-P8X32A-Q44-Shortage-Expected-place-your-orders/page2

    Post #35

    I'm beginning to like the project board a lot more. More features and a friendlier prototyping space.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,386
    edited 2014-09-13 07:26
    idbruce wrote: »
    The subject of Propeller Proto Boards possibly being discontinued came up in another thread and I am seeking a definite answer. Is it true that Parallax is discontinuing my beloved Proto Boards?

    By name and stock code, yes, but by functionality the Propeller Project Board should provide a superset of capabilities at the same price. If this doesn't make people happy we'll bring back the Prop Proto Board, but before we jump to conclusions about which one is best for our projects it would make sense to compare them in terms of features, price, etc. This comparison should probably be made from Parallax since you haven't seen the new Propeller Project Board yet.

    Ken Gracey
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2014-09-13 07:52
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    By name and stock code, yes, but by functionality the Propeller Project Board should provide a superset of capabilities at the same price. If this doesn't make people happy we'll bring back the Prop Proto Board, but before we jump to conclusions about which one is best for our projects it would make sense to compare them in terms of features, price, etc. This comparison should probably be made from Parallax since you haven't seen the new Propeller Project Board yet.

    Ken Gracey

    The Proto boards had a 5V voltage regulator which was great for using the LCD and various sensors, etc while the Project board only supplied 3.3V.

    Is there any chance the new version will have a 5V regulator/supply?

    I've made up several LM2940 boards with a push button switch and LED to use with the QuickStart, etc when I need 5 volts but it would be nice if it was onboard...
    LM2940 board.jpg
    LM2940 board.jpg
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  • Hal AlbachHal Albach Posts: 747
    edited 2014-09-13 11:00
    The Rev B Project board has a location for an LDO regulator on the back, near where you can mount a power jack, and feeds the 8-pin bridge below the power terminals.
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2014-09-13 11:16
    Hal Albach wrote: »
    The Rev B Project board has a location for an LDO regulator on the back, near where you can mount a power jack, and feeds the 8-pin bridge below the power terminals.

    Thanks! Didn't notice that. I don't have the project board yet.

    Think you need a surface mount regulator (TO-263) or could you use a thru the hole TO-220?
  • Hal AlbachHal Albach Posts: 747
    edited 2014-09-13 11:42
    The document does specify the TO-263 SMD package. I imagine you could use a TO-220 but it would be very difficult to use the heat sink pad. ( I can't seem to copy and paste the link to the pdf). Go to Parallax.com and do a search for 32810 and go to the downloads & documentation links.

    Digi-Key LM2940CS-5.0 SMD 3 lead + Tab about $2.00 ea single
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2014-09-13 13:02
    Hal Albach wrote: »
    The document does specify the TO-263 SMD package. I imagine you could use a TO-220 but it would be very difficult to use the heat sink pad. ( I can't seem to copy and paste the link to the pdf). Go to Parallax.com and do a search for 32810 and go to the downloads & documentation links.

    Digi-Key LM2940CS-5.0 SMD 3 lead + Tab about $2.00 ea single

    Darn! I just received a package from DigiKey. I would have ordered some TO-263. I guess the new board will use the same.

    I got the documentation for the board but I'm sure the new board will have updated documentation.

    Thanks again!
  • Hal AlbachHal Albach Posts: 747
    edited 2014-09-13 13:24
    I feel your pain, Ron! By procrastinating I missed the Labor Day 10% off here at Parallax and ordered $128.00 worth of Motors & brackets and Caster Wheel on 9-4. What the heck was I doing? Anyway, between now and the time the new project boards come out I'm sure you will have more "needs" and can get that regulator at that time. Who knows, maybe Parallax will start stocking the SMD part along with the thru-hole they already have.
  • idbruceidbruce Posts: 6,197
    edited 2014-09-13 15:31
    Ken

    Sorry it took so long to get around to replying......

    Not that I expect Parallax to build custom products or retain older products just for me, especially since I purchase boards in such small quantities, but the phase out of the Proto Board is very disturbing to me.

    In my opinion, the Proto Board is a very well designed circuit board. It is especially elegant with the IO pins and supply pins coming out around the perimeter of the Propeller, in addition to the 5V regulator and the servo port hookup area. This circuit board allows for neat and tidy work, which permits easy troubleshooting for very complicated circuirty or wires that must be easily traced. Additionally, this board is an active substitute for custom made PCBs.

    As you say, I have not seen a project board with the latest revisions, but I can compare the Proto Board against the latest datasheet available for the Project Board. As I see it, and although I have never purchased one, the Project Board is definitely a handy board also, but for different purposes. To me, the Project Board would be an essential product, for quick, down, and dirty prototyping, which would eventually end up at a PCB fab shop, however, I would not like trying to troubleshoot any serious wiring on that board, since all the pins basically come out from end a corner of the board. If all 32 pins were to be utilized, it would be a tad difficult to trace the wires.

    Please do not misunderstand me.... I am not trying to insult the Project Board in any form or fashion... I just believe it has a totally different function than the Proto Board. If I wanted to make custom PCBs at a fab shop, I would utilize the Project Boards, but if I wanted my prototyping to be the final board, it would be the Proto Board hands down.

    But as you say, I have not seen the last revision.

    I guess one of the key points that I want to emphasize is this.... According to the datasheet of the last revision of the Project Board, I doubt I could achieve wiring like this that would be easy to track and troubleshoot, for a permanent solution.

    Thanks for listening to my two cents.

    PanMntPropPlug 002.jpg
    PanMntPropPlug 002.jpg
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  • VIRANDVIRAND Posts: 656
    edited 2014-09-14 20:53
    idbruce wrote: »
    Ken

    Sorry it took so long to get around to replying......

    Not that I expect Parallax to build custom products or retain older products just for me, especially since I purchase boards in such small quantities, but the phase out of the Proto Board is very disturbing to me.

    In my opinion, the Proto Board is a very well designed circuit board. It is especially elegant with the IO pins and supply pins coming out around the perimeter of the Propeller, in addition to the 5V regulator and the servo port hookup area. This circuit board allows for neat and tidy work, which permits easy troubleshooting for very complicated circuirty or wires that must be easily traced. Additionally, this board is an active substitute for custom made PCBs.

    As you say, I have not seen a project board with the latest revisions, but I can compare the Proto Board against the latest datasheet available for the Project Board. As I see it, and although I have never purchased one, the Project Board is definitely a handy board also, but for different purposes. To me, the Project Board would be an essential product, for quick, down, and dirty prototyping, which would eventually end up at a PCB fab shop, however, I would not like trying to troubleshoot any serious wiring on that board, since all the pins basically come out from end a corner of the board. If all 32 pins were to be utilized, it would be a tad difficult to trace the wires.

    Please do not misunderstand me.... I am not trying to insult the Project Board in any form or fashion... I just believe it has a totally different function than the Proto Board. If I wanted to make custom PCBs at a fab shop, I would utilize the Project Boards, but if I wanted my prototyping to be the final board, it would be the Proto Board hands down.

    But as you say, I have not seen the last revision.

    I guess one of the key points that I want to emphasize is this.... According to the datasheet of the last revision of the Project Board, I doubt I could achieve wiring like this that would be easy to track and troubleshoot, for a permanent solution.

    Thanks for listening to my two cents.

    PanMntPropPlug 002.jpg

    I agree, and also the Proto board is good for Graphics and Sound projects that were developed on the Hydra and Demo boards.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,386
    edited 2014-09-14 21:28
    On Wednesday we're having a meeting on our Propeller Board selection. We'll start by reading this thread and going over our internal notes.

    Any additional input about Project Board vs. Proto Board please post a reply. - Ken
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2014-09-14 21:57
    +1 to continue the original Propeller Proto boards (Non-USB and USB versions) -- They were (and still are) one of the best ways to learn how to build hardware to work with the Propeller.

    They are "tried", "tested", and "true".. It's a no-brainer.

    Jeff
  • TtailspinTtailspin Posts: 1,326
    edited 2014-09-14 23:01
    They are "tried", "tested", and "true".. It's a no-brainer.
    And they are "Tommy" resistant too. :thumb:


    I like the USB version of the Proto Board, it has all the right features for building things.
    A five volt regulator, the Servo headers, and easy to use Keyboard, Mouse, and VGA options.
    My only complaint is the Reset button, it would be nice if there were solder pads so the Reset button could be put anywhere I wanted on a project.

    It was the first Propeller I bought, And I am glad I did, It's a tough little board. :)


    -Tommy
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2014-09-15 00:46
    Is this going to end up being a "One or the other" situation? If so, I really hope not. I would like that you keep them both. I have not used the Proto board yet but I do intend to. I use the Project board on my Wild Thumper and I think it would come in handy in several situations.
  • Hal AlbachHal Albach Posts: 747
    edited 2014-09-15 07:21
    One of the features I really like about the Project Board USB are the SMD pads that are linked to thru-hole pads. I wish this could be expanded to a board similar to P8X32A QuickStart Proto Board PCB which couples to the Project Board just like a Quickstart.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-09-15 07:23
    I'm sure I have more than a dozen Propeller Proto Boards in various projects but I doubt I'd ever purchase another Proto Board once the Project is available.
    idbruce wrote: »
    I would not like trying to troubleshoot any serious wiring on that board, since all the pins basically come out from end a corner of the board. If all 32 pins were to be utilized, it would be a tad difficult to trace the wires.

    I think each I/O pin is available from two different locations on the Project board (though they are all from the same corner of the board). IMO having a larger prototyping area more than makes up for the having all the I/O connections on one side of the board. I've had many projects were there seemed to be plenty of prototyping area left on the (Proto) board but no one area was large enough for the component I needed to mount.

    I do think the central chip location of the Proto Board would be an advantage when long traces could present a problem but I still doubt I'd purchase a Proto Board once the Project Boards are available.

    The main thing is I want an inexpensive Propeller board! Even if I have to buy five at a time, I'd really like a $20 Propeller board (though I could live with a $25 board).

    I originally thought the surface mount area on the Project board a waste of space, until I used it. It seems like almost all my projects need at least one surface mount chip and it was really nice to have a place on the board to mount the chip (in my case it was a SOIC MCP3208)
  • richaj45richaj45 Posts: 179
    edited 2014-09-15 08:52
    Hello:

    Interesting.
    I went to Parallax and i can't find either proto board.
    Are they there and i just can't use the internet?

    cheers,
    rich
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-09-15 09:02
    richaj45 wrote: »
    Hello:

    Interesting.
    I went to Parallax and i can't find either proto board.
    Are they there and i just can't use the internet?

    cheers,
    rich

    The Protoboard in question is at this link:

    http://www.parallax.com/product/32212

    The Project Board is at this link:

    http://www.parallax.com/product/32810
  • Hal AlbachHal Albach Posts: 747
    edited 2014-09-15 09:04
    richaj45 wrote: »
    Hello:

    Interesting.
    I went to Parallax and i can't find either proto board.
    Are they there and i just can't use the internet?

    cheers,
    rich

    Both boards are currently unavailable. Proto is out of stock and Project Board is under revision. To see all information about either board use the Parallax.com link at the top and search for 32212 for Proto or 32810 for Project Board.

    aarrgghhh! Too late by two minutes!!
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,933
    edited 2014-09-15 10:36
    My 2 cents:

    • Keep both as they both have ideal usage. Granted, having two slower moving products is more of a challenge than one fast moving, but overall, having both should benefit the long run.
    • For the Proto Board
      • Design out the stacked VGA/PS2 connector location on the proto board and switch to off the shelf connectors. Ease of use with a low cost connector outweighs the real estate gain.
      • Design the board for both USB with a TSSOP FTDI and non-USB with the 4 pin header. This way, someone could buy the non-USB version, but if motivated, could buy a small kit of parts to add USB later. Or, just populate those parts to sell a USB version if the demand justifies it.
      • However you use FTDI in your boards, try to use the same package/version where possible. So, for a new proto board format, use the EXACT FTDI circuit from the project board.
    • On the project board:
      • Dump the SO-64 pads
      • Add a location for a DC Jack next to the USB, facing the same direction.
      • I don't understand the needs for SOT23 pads, because you can make them work with standard protoboard spaced holes, so I would remove them.
    • In my opinion, you should have three goals with these two boards:
      • Streamline the designs so that functionally similar circuits use the same schematic.
      • Keep the boards simple and straightforward, knowing that some people will hack the boards up to use in a project. The proto board layout is ideal for hacking into a 1.5" square board. I have used three that way.
      • Keep the designs separate, even though you are utilizing many parts of the same schematic. In other words, scour the forums, etc, to see how people have used each. There have been a few differences in how they have been used and in some cases, you couldn't swap them to achieve the same result. However, do not have the mindset that you need to meet 100% of the needs. Some of the more elaborate usages will make do with whatever board is available.
    • Take a peek at some other proto/dev boards out there with similar goals to these two boards. (I tried looking for an Arduino board with a proto area, but couldn't find one, apparently they all used proto shields.......)
    • Lastly, although this is tough without changing the dimensions...... Design it so it fits into an off the shelf enclosure!!!!!!! (sorry, major pet peeve of mine, when I can't just buy an enclosure from Polycase/Bud/PacTec/Etc for a project style board)
  • Mag748Mag748 Posts: 263
    edited 2014-09-15 11:57
    Howdy,

    I think the power supply is a big deal. And in that regard, I'd think the opposite of Bruce. I'd use the Proto board for quick prototyping because it's has linear power supplies which are bullet proof. I've tried hacking around on the project boards in the past and on more than one occasion have destroyed the switching power supply circuit which causes coasterization. Once the hacking and slashing is done with my circuit, I can safely transfer the design to the project board and enclose it nicely. But, if the power supply circuit is being robustified on the new Project board, I could live with just that board as the only option.

    Thanks,
    Marcus
  • ErNaErNa Posts: 1,742
    edited 2014-09-16 03:24
    As I said before: the strength of propeller is multiprocessing. Sometimes 8 COGs are not sufficient. Prepare the pad for a second prop, which could run from the same clock (Xout of the first to Xin of the second) and allow two pins to bootstrap the second and later to communicate. Have the pins of the second prop routed to pad on the backside to allow arbitrary connections. This could give a push in direction to multichipprocession.
    ErNa
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2014-09-16 08:11
    As long as we are wishing, I would love to see a strip of DIP traces in the prototyping area similar to this RS board

    Great for DIP sockets
    attachment.php?attachmentid=111019

    RS board.jpg
    RS board.jpg
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  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-09-16 08:47
    You mean like these? :-)

    EZasPieProto300-web.jpg


    EZasPieProto600-web.jpg


    (click on thumbnails for larger images)

    Mounting holes are compatible with Parallax 4"x3" pcb mounting holes.

    See

    http://www.mikronauts.com/proto/ezaspieproto300/

    and

    http://www.mikronauts.com/proto/ezaspieproto600/

    respectively.
    Ron Czapala wrote: »
    As long as we are wishing, I would love to see a strip of DIP traces in the prototyping area similar to this RS board

    Great for DIP sockets
    attachment.php?attachmentid=111019

    RS board.jpg
    EZasPieProto300-web.jpg
    800 x 599 - 360K
    EZasPieProto600-web.jpg
    800 x 603 - 364K
  • Ron CzapalaRon Czapala Posts: 2,418
    edited 2014-09-16 08:55
    Bill Henning wrote: »
    You mean like these? :-)

    Yeah but on the Propeller board prototyping area.

    Nice boards BTW!
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2014-09-16 09:34
    Thank you!

    You mean like this?

    propteus-top-web.JPG


    (click on thumbnail for larger image)

    Sapieha did a beautiful job on the layout (as usual)

    http://www.mikronauts.com/parallax-propeller/propteus/

    Catches:

    - not smt
    - I can't sell as cheaply as Parallax (I don't own/manufacture the Propeller, and don't have the volume Parallax does)
    Ron Czapala wrote: »
    Yeah but on the Propeller board prototyping area.

    Nice boards BTW!
    propteus-top-web.JPG
    1024 x 896 - 426K
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2014-09-16 10:01
    Ron Czapala wrote: »
    As long as we are wishing, I would love to see a strip of DIP traces in the prototyping area similar to this RS board

    Great for DIP sockets

    Linked pads are great when you are using the board in a way which takes advantage of the links but I find more often than not the various linked pads just get in the way of using the prototyping area the way I want.

    As long as the prototyping area doesn't have a ground pour between the pads, I can just lay a wire down on one side of the board to join whatever pins I want where I want.

    If anyone is taking votes, I vote against linking pads except at the edges of the board (as done on the Proto boards).

    The Vss bus on the Proto boards can be very useful but just as often (probably more often than not) it blocks me from placing components where I'd like.

    I was just reviewing the Project board's pdf and I like the way the buses are done on it. The power and ground lines on the Project board are all kept near the edge of the board leaving the central prototyping area free from dividing lines.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2014-09-16 10:14
    I know this is turning into a Project Board wish list, (sorry Bruce), but I believe the redesign is solely based on the VGA problem, and re-routing some traces.

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/146944-Propeller-Project-Board-USB-VGA-issues?highlight=Project%2C+VGA

    I don't see any huge changes to the layout. But hey, Parallax may surprise us.

    Bruce, why don't you start another thread with a poll for the Proto Board to continue?
  • 4x5n4x5n Posts: 745
    edited 2014-09-16 12:45
    Ken,

    Remember you asked for opinions! :)

    I really like the prop activity and the prop-boe but not the quickstart so much. I've considered making a ribbon cable that will allow me to extending the pins from the quickstart to a breadboard. I would really like a prop-boe type board that only consume the prop pins

    As far as the project/proto boards go I never did like the proto board having the prop in the center of the board but would like having a project board that uses a prop plug rather then onboard usb.
  • TappermanTapperman Posts: 319
    edited 2014-09-16 13:53
    Ken Gracey wrote: »
    On Wednesday we're having a meeting on our Propeller Board selection.

    Hello Parallax Staff,

    I love the USB version of the Proto Board (seems to be gone?) ... please bring it back! If I had known they were about to disappear ... I would have ordered a dozen of them! GIVE THE CUSTOMERs WHAT THEY WANT. That doesn't mean I will not purchase other products as well ... example, I still use the PPDB for many projects ... but it doesn't come close to the Proto version. (Size, Weight, Cost, etc.)

    ... Tim

    PS - Could you pass me a apple fritter please?
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