Which Microcontroller to use???

Comments

• LoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537

  2005-07-31 15:40 edited 2005-07-31 15:40

  Parallax would tell you BasicStamp of course. Or, you can jump right ahead to Ubicom SX. The new SX 48/52 Proto board will fit in the same footprint as the BasicStamp motherboard on the BoE Bot.
  
  If you are up to it, the Ubicom SX is a lot cheaper in the long run and a lot more challenging. The virtual peripherals allow you to get much farther than fooling around with the 24DIP Basic programing format.
  
  If you want to introduce your children to programing, BasicStamps will ease them into it. If you don't have time, BasicStamp is something you can easily come back to.
  
  BasicX 24, OOPic, PicAxe, GenericPic, BasicAtom all offer a different array of features AND noticably less on-line support. If you can handle going it alone, one of them may be preferable.
  
  I can happily say that I have fried a lot of circuitry, but the BasicStamp is still functioning. That is another nice feature of it. It will handle more milliamps than most of the competion [noparse][[/noparse]both source and drain], so it forgives more mistakes.
  
  BasicX-24 offers seemingly more speed and features, but absolutely minimal support with a hefty tome of unfinished documentation. I really like the hardware, but hate the fact that I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out what should have been written instead of what was.
  
  I keep coming back to my BS40p to build a prototype, to test new stuff, and workout concepts. It is just easier to get into.
  
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  G. Herzog in Taiwan
• Chris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406

  2005-07-31 16:13 edited 2005-07-31 16:13

  Hello,
  
  ··· Parallax isn't going to tell you use the BASIC Stamp if it won't work in your design, but we also can't comment on the features or usefulness of the other Stamp-like controllers.· What we can do is provide a free wealth of information on our products that can help you determine if they are the right choice for your project goals.
  
  ·· PBASIC is really just a BASIC style language.· It will be similar to computer BASIC except that the commands are designed for microcontroller applications and tailored to the BASIC Stamp capabilities.· The BASIC Stamp can only be programmed in PBASIC.· If you need to program in Assembly or C, we have the Ubicom SX, which easily does 50 MIPS+.
  
  ·· On our website there are numerous books we have available, including the BASIC Stamp Syntax & Reference Guide which goes into great detail about the BASIC Stamps and all the commands, uses, etc.· You can download this in a PDF format free from the site.· It might answer some questions about the PBASIC language.
  
  ·· If you have some specific questions about our products, please feel free to ask here and we would be happy to help you with those questions.· What you will find is that we have top-notch support for our products, and all of our software and reference material is free.· I hope this helps you some.
  
  
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  Chris Savage
  Parallax Tech Support
  csavage@parallax.com
  
  
  Post Edited (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 7/31/2005 4:22:57 PM GMT
• Shaitan00 Posts: 16

  2005-07-31 17:32 edited 2005-07-31 17:32

  Thank you both for your feedback - forgot Parallax Forum would be biased
  (also - this is solely for me, no kids yet hopefully)
  
  But seriouslly - I love the idea of being able to Program in C and Assembly - really tired of doing Basic work (did a lot in my good old programming days) so the SX chips sound really interresting.
  
  Thing is I want to make a robot (starting from a Kit I presume) such as the BOE-BOT or RogueATR - I have never seen any of these come the the SX chip... Do some of these products exist?
  
  Or could I simply by the RogueATR or BOE-BOT frame (without the microprocessor/board) and buy the SX series apart and just fit them together? (I assume the physical specs are different so it would require a lot of customizing the frames and so forth - maybe not worth it) - if so what does Parallax sell as a SX-kit that I could add-on to such an existing Robot shell?
  
  Thanks a lot.
• dandreae Posts: 1,375

  2005-07-31 18:51 edited 2005-07-31 18:51

  Actually you can use our new SX 48/52 board which is the same size·as our Board of Education board, meaning that it will fit onto the Boe-Bot chassis.· This will allow you to control the Boe-Bot using our SX chips that can be programmed in assmbly language or "C".· Here is a link for more information:· http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=45300 .· The SX 48/52 has sections on the through hole area for servos and other components to make it easy cross over.
  
  Dave
  
  
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  Dave Andreae
  
  Tech Support
  dandreae@parallax.com
  Http://www.parallax.com
  
  ·
• Shaitan00 Posts: 16

  2005-07-31 20:28 edited 2005-07-31 20:28

  Dave: Sounds like a great idea - and I get to keep programming in Assembly or C.
  LAst question on the matter - I need a Starter Kit, which do you recommend (order online)
  ····· Stock#:·45180··· <!-- product category -->Category:·SX-Accessories <!-- display product name -->SX Tech Tool Kit LITE
  <!-- unit price -->
  Would that be the best choice? Does it come with the right sized board (SX 48/50)?
  Thanks,
• dandreae Posts: 1,375

  2005-07-31 22:20 edited 2005-07-31 22:20

  I would order the SX-Key with the Robotics' part kit and the SX48/52 board.· Here are some links for each part:·
  
  http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=45300
  
  http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=552-00007
  
  http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=28154
  
  Remember with the SX 48/52 board we offer assembly/SX-BASIC compiler for free and the "C" compiler you have to purchase.· However, I believe you might be able to find a free version on www.google.com?
  
  Dave
  
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  Dave Andreae
  
  Tech Support
  dandreae@parallax.com
  Http://www.parallax.com
  
  ·
• LoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537

  2005-08-02 09:27 edited 2005-08-02 09:27

  For everyone's information, I originally purchased a BX-24, BX-35, and BX-01 with RAMsandwich. Also, I got the XbotX Scout.
  
  Then I found myself pretty much left on my own. It is so much easier to get started with Parallax as the user community will have something to say and will actually try to think along with your project.
  
  Having spent all that money, I just reopened my boxes of stuff and finally I have mastered the BX-01 with the RAMsandwich. But, I must say that I did it alone and with hours and hours of reverse engineering.
  
  If that is the kind of challange you love, there are lots of vendors that will provide it.
  
  But, if you came here to get answers, you will probably find a home and friendship here.
  
  ALSO, OOpic, BasicX, BasicAtom will not provide you with a product that can use C programing.· I can appreciate that many people are most confidant in C.· Parallax should consider supporting a jump from Basic to C as it is quite a natural educational evolution.· Maybe a C forum slot for those that are not into RISC·Assembler?
  
  Regarding PIC versus SX-Ubicom, the PIC provides an array of chips that are special purpose while the SX-Ubicom can do it all in one or two packages and with virtual peripherals.· So, I really believe that the SX-Ubicom will allow you more growth with less pain in the long run.· You certainly will have a lot less documents to read [noparse][[/noparse]a SX-20/28 and an SX-48/52 docment vs. dozens for the PIC].· The SX-Ubicom run faster too.
  
  Save time and make friends.
  
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  G. Herzog in Taiwan
  
  Post Edited (Kramer) : 8/2/2005 9:43:05 AM GMT
• allanlane5 Posts: 3,815

  2005-08-02 12:23 edited 2005-08-02 12:23

  One of the major strengths of the BS2 IS that it is programmed in PBasic. Easily understood, simple, yet powerful enough to control Servo's, read IR LED's, even control the BOE-BOT.
  
  Parallax HAS generated a Java based module, as well. It does not sell as well as the BS2, though.
  
  These days, plain C seems to be in disrepute -- C++ is "where it's at, man!". I'm being sarcastic, of course. Lots of vendors will support a C compiler. As you say, "If that is the kind of challenge you love, there are lots of vendors that will provide it." But you may quickly run into the same kind of support issues you ran into with the BX24.
• LoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537

  2005-08-02 16:20 edited 2005-08-02 16:20

  I think people prefer C or C++ because of the portability and it is wide taught in colleges and universities.
  
  Additionally, it seems that people find the language they can function in and stay with it. For me, that is really BASIC.
  
  I have never learned C, C+,or C++ and they really boogle my brain as I have to think at a lower level, but still cannot think at the lowest level. Java is a bit of a boogle too. Object Oriented seem like hide and seek to me.
  
  Nonetheless, the SX-Ubicom has provide a free C compiler and it works with the SX-Key. There is little investment on Parallax's part to allow people that want to use it.
  
  As I understand it, Parallax is the main distributor for SX-Ubicom and this is just another distribution channel.
  
  So why ignore it? The more, the merrier!
  
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  G. Herzog in Taiwan
• Paul Baker Posts: 6,351

  2005-08-02 16:37 edited 2005-08-02 16:37

  Kramer said...
  
  Nonetheless, the SX-Ubicom has provide a free C compiler and it works with the SX-Key. There is little investment on Parallax's part to allow people that want to use it.

  Where is this free C compiler for the SX? My understanding is there are no commercial quality C compilers for the SX that are free.
  
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• dandreae Posts: 1,375

  2005-08-02 17:12 edited 2005-08-02 17:12

  Paul,
  
  I don't believe that this information listed below·covers the commercial aspect of a free "C"·compiler, but it may help someone.
  
  HiTechs excellent PIC C (commercial) or PIC C LITE (Free) compiler can now be used to develop programs for the SX!
  You need AS2SX postprocessor for this task. This software can be downloaded separately from http://geocities.com/SiliconValley/Station/7733/ You can compile files with HiTech C to AS_source, than assemble and optimize it with AS2SX.
  
  If you register, you can also download full SX-DEV software version from http://www.svtehs.com, where both HiTech PICL C and AS2SX included.
  With this system you can not only compile, but also program SX and debug your application on the C source level. You can write C source code, compile it, program to the target board and debug your application in real-time - all within the same IDE.
  ·
  http://www.bytecraft.com/SXccaps.html ByteCraft SXC C compiler for all SX chips with IDE, macro assembler, and linker. SXC now supports the SX48 and SX52 parts, including the expanded register file. Demonstration version is fully functional but will only generate listing files with assembly and is restricted to generating 512 bytes of object code. Select public domain / educational projects may be given a Free compiler. See: http://www.bytecraft.com/sponsorship.html for details. And Parallax sells an educational version for $295. See: http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=45206. This was used to build the CMUCam SX based vision system!
  http://www.bknd.com/cc1b/index.shtml CC1B is a beta C compiler for the SX chips from bknd.
  http://www.picant.com/c2c/c.html Pavel Baranov's C2C C-compiler runs on Win-95, DOS and Linux and compiles for PIC and SX (Free)
  
  Dave
  
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  Dave Andreae
  
  Tech Support
  dandreae@parallax.com
  Http://www.parallax.com
  
  ·
• allanlane5 Posts: 3,815

  2005-08-02 17:59 edited 2005-08-02 17:59

  I've used the C2C compiler, and it is excellent. It's only free in limited use, though (I think 16F84).
  
  Still, it's not expensive ($99?) and it comes with an EXCELLENT PIC simulator. Recommended.
• LoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537

  2005-08-04 15:46 edited 2005-08-04 15:46

  Humble Pie - Someone has provided a free C compiler for the SX Ubicom, not SX Ubicom.
  
  Professional quality always means $$$$, but for the amature we have lift off.
  
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  G. Herzog in Taiwan
• Paul Baker Posts: 6,351

  2005-08-04 16:16 edited 2005-08-04 16:16

  Thanks for the info Dave. I was aware of the ByteCraft SXC (too expensive), but the C2C is along the lines I was thinking.
  
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