Which Microcontroller to use???
I am a newbie at Robotics (actually building kits) but have extensive knowledge in Programming (Assembly, BASIC, C, C++, Java) and have a bachelor in Electrical & Computer Engineering. My goal is to build a little robot that I can remotely control fro my PC that can play with my Cat (don't ask - just a goal I am using to start building robots) – for starters (I have a lot of ideas)
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The only real choices I am currently looking into are the following:
- BOE-BOT - found all over and uses BS2
- ARobot (by Arrick) - this uses BS2 or BasicX-24
- Rogue ATR ERS - this uses either BS2 or OOPic
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Other then what is best to attack a cat, my real problem/question stems from which MicroController to start with? Basic Stamp2, BasicX-24, or OOPic?
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Factors:
- I would like to be able to use my current programming skills to program my robot (such as Assembly, Basic, C, C++, or JAVA) – can any of these be programmed directly in assembly? I believe the BS2 uses PBasic - what exactly is that? I know the OOPic can program in BASIC, C, or JAVA but it looked really limited...? Is it real Basic/C/Java (like Microsoft version I am used to?)
- OOPic is special because it can use Objects and be Event driven, are these features really advantageous for robot programming?
- Is the OOPic the only one that can multitask? (Virtual Circuits)
- How is support for the OOPic? I found a 2 good BASIC forums but so far nothing for OOPic besides the Yahoo group, will this increase or is it a dead product?
- What is the MAJOR differences between BS2 and BasicX-24?
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My main factor depends on this - what is the way of the future? I don't want to spend time learning something that will be legacy software in a few months. Is everyone slowly migrating from Basic2 -> OOPic? Where does BasicX-24 fit?
Of course - what will allow for the most flexibility in the future?
(I want to start small and build-up, I mean way up)
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Any feedback/comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your time,
·
The only real choices I am currently looking into are the following:
- BOE-BOT - found all over and uses BS2
- ARobot (by Arrick) - this uses BS2 or BasicX-24
- Rogue ATR ERS - this uses either BS2 or OOPic
·
Other then what is best to attack a cat, my real problem/question stems from which MicroController to start with? Basic Stamp2, BasicX-24, or OOPic?
·
Factors:
- I would like to be able to use my current programming skills to program my robot (such as Assembly, Basic, C, C++, or JAVA) – can any of these be programmed directly in assembly? I believe the BS2 uses PBasic - what exactly is that? I know the OOPic can program in BASIC, C, or JAVA but it looked really limited...? Is it real Basic/C/Java (like Microsoft version I am used to?)
- OOPic is special because it can use Objects and be Event driven, are these features really advantageous for robot programming?
- Is the OOPic the only one that can multitask? (Virtual Circuits)
- How is support for the OOPic? I found a 2 good BASIC forums but so far nothing for OOPic besides the Yahoo group, will this increase or is it a dead product?
- What is the MAJOR differences between BS2 and BasicX-24?
·
My main factor depends on this - what is the way of the future? I don't want to spend time learning something that will be legacy software in a few months. Is everyone slowly migrating from Basic2 -> OOPic? Where does BasicX-24 fit?
Of course - what will allow for the most flexibility in the future?
(I want to start small and build-up, I mean way up)
·
Any feedback/comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your time,
Comments
If you are up to it, the Ubicom SX is a lot cheaper in the long run and a lot more challenging. The virtual peripherals allow you to get much farther than fooling around with the 24DIP Basic programing format.
If you want to introduce your children to programing, BasicStamps will ease them into it. If you don't have time, BasicStamp is something you can easily come back to.
BasicX 24, OOPic, PicAxe, GenericPic, BasicAtom all offer a different array of features AND noticably less on-line support. If you can handle going it alone, one of them may be preferable.
I can happily say that I have fried a lot of circuitry, but the BasicStamp is still functioning. That is another nice feature of it. It will handle more milliamps than most of the competion [noparse][[/noparse]both source and drain], so it forgives more mistakes.
BasicX-24 offers seemingly more speed and features, but absolutely minimal support with a hefty tome of unfinished documentation. I really like the hardware, but hate the fact that I have spent hours and hours trying to figure out what should have been written instead of what was.
I keep coming back to my BS40p to build a prototype, to test new stuff, and workout concepts. It is just easier to get into.
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G. Herzog in Taiwan
··· Parallax isn't going to tell you use the BASIC Stamp if it won't work in your design, but we also can't comment on the features or usefulness of the other Stamp-like controllers.· What we can do is provide a free wealth of information on our products that can help you determine if they are the right choice for your project goals.
·· PBASIC is really just a BASIC style language.· It will be similar to computer BASIC except that the commands are designed for microcontroller applications and tailored to the BASIC Stamp capabilities.· The BASIC Stamp can only be programmed in PBASIC.· If you need to program in Assembly or C, we have the Ubicom SX, which easily does 50 MIPS+.
·· On our website there are numerous books we have available, including the BASIC Stamp Syntax & Reference Guide which goes into great detail about the BASIC Stamps and all the commands, uses, etc.· You can download this in a PDF format free from the site.· It might answer some questions about the PBASIC language.
·· If you have some specific questions about our products, please feel free to ask here and we would be happy to help you with those questions.· What you will find is that we have top-notch support for our products, and all of our software and reference material is free.· I hope this helps you some.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com
Post Edited (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 7/31/2005 4:22:57 PM GMT
(also - this is solely for me, no kids yet hopefully)
But seriouslly - I love the idea of being able to Program in C and Assembly - really tired of doing Basic work (did a lot in my good old programming days) so the SX chips sound really interresting.
Thing is I want to make a robot (starting from a Kit I presume) such as the BOE-BOT or RogueATR - I have never seen any of these come the the SX chip... Do some of these products exist?
Or could I simply by the RogueATR or BOE-BOT frame (without the microprocessor/board) and buy the SX series apart and just fit them together? (I assume the physical specs are different so it would require a lot of customizing the frames and so forth - maybe not worth it) - if so what does Parallax sell as a SX-kit that I could add-on to such an existing Robot shell?
Thanks a lot.
Dave
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Dave Andreae
Tech Support
dandreae@parallax.com
Http://www.parallax.com
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LAst question on the matter - I need a Starter Kit, which do you recommend (order online)
····· Stock#:·45180··· <!-- product category -->Category:·SX-Accessories <!-- display product name -->SX Tech Tool Kit LITE
<!-- unit price -->
Would that be the best choice? Does it come with the right sized board (SX 48/50)?
Thanks,
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=45300
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=552-00007
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=28154
Remember with the SX 48/52 board we offer assembly/SX-BASIC compiler for free and the "C" compiler you have to purchase.· However, I believe you might be able to find a free version on www.google.com?
Dave
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Dave Andreae
Tech Support
dandreae@parallax.com
Http://www.parallax.com
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Then I found myself pretty much left on my own. It is so much easier to get started with Parallax as the user community will have something to say and will actually try to think along with your project.
Having spent all that money, I just reopened my boxes of stuff and finally I have mastered the BX-01 with the RAMsandwich. But, I must say that I did it alone and with hours and hours of reverse engineering.
If that is the kind of challange you love, there are lots of vendors that will provide it.
But, if you came here to get answers, you will probably find a home and friendship here.
ALSO, OOpic, BasicX, BasicAtom will not provide you with a product that can use C programing.· I can appreciate that many people are most confidant in C.· Parallax should consider supporting a jump from Basic to C as it is quite a natural educational evolution.· Maybe a C forum slot for those that are not into RISC·Assembler?
Regarding PIC versus SX-Ubicom, the PIC provides an array of chips that are special purpose while the SX-Ubicom can do it all in one or two packages and with virtual peripherals.· So, I really believe that the SX-Ubicom will allow you more growth with less pain in the long run.· You certainly will have a lot less documents to read [noparse][[/noparse]a SX-20/28 and an SX-48/52 docment vs. dozens for the PIC].· The SX-Ubicom run faster too.
Save time and make friends.
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G. Herzog in Taiwan
Post Edited (Kramer) : 8/2/2005 9:43:05 AM GMT
Parallax HAS generated a Java based module, as well. It does not sell as well as the BS2, though.
These days, plain C seems to be in disrepute -- C++ is "where it's at, man!". I'm being sarcastic, of course. Lots of vendors will support a C compiler. As you say, "If that is the kind of challenge you love, there are lots of vendors that will provide it." But you may quickly run into the same kind of support issues you ran into with the BX24.
Additionally, it seems that people find the language they can function in and stay with it. For me, that is really BASIC.
I have never learned C, C+,or C++ and they really boogle my brain as I have to think at a lower level, but still cannot think at the lowest level. Java is a bit of a boogle too. Object Oriented seem like hide and seek to me.
Nonetheless, the SX-Ubicom has provide a free C compiler and it works with the SX-Key. There is little investment on Parallax's part to allow people that want to use it.
As I understand it, Parallax is the main distributor for SX-Ubicom and this is just another distribution channel.
So why ignore it? The more, the merrier!
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G. Herzog in Taiwan
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I don't believe that this information listed below·covers the commercial aspect of a free "C"·compiler, but it may help someone.
HiTechs excellent PIC C (commercial) or PIC C LITE (Free) compiler can now be used to develop programs for the SX!
You need AS2SX postprocessor for this task. This software can be downloaded separately from http://geocities.com/SiliconValley/Station/7733/ You can compile files with HiTech C to AS_source, than assemble and optimize it with AS2SX.
If you register, you can also download full SX-DEV software version from http://www.svtehs.com, where both HiTech PICL C and AS2SX included.
With this system you can not only compile, but also program SX and debug your application on the C source level. You can write C source code, compile it, program to the target board and debug your application in real-time - all within the same IDE.
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http://www.bytecraft.com/SXccaps.html ByteCraft SXC C compiler for all SX chips with IDE, macro assembler, and linker. SXC now supports the SX48 and SX52 parts, including the expanded register file. Demonstration version is fully functional but will only generate listing files with assembly and is restricted to generating 512 bytes of object code. Select public domain / educational projects may be given a Free compiler. See: http://www.bytecraft.com/sponsorship.html for details. And Parallax sells an educational version for $295. See: http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=45206. This was used to build the CMUCam SX based vision system!
http://www.bknd.com/cc1b/index.shtml CC1B is a beta C compiler for the SX chips from bknd.
http://www.picant.com/c2c/c.html Pavel Baranov's C2C C-compiler runs on Win-95, DOS and Linux and compiles for PIC and SX (Free)
Dave
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Dave Andreae
Tech Support
dandreae@parallax.com
Http://www.parallax.com
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Still, it's not expensive ($99?) and it comes with an EXCELLENT PIC simulator. Recommended.
Professional quality always means $$$$, but for the amature we have lift off.
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G. Herzog in Taiwan
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