UV Robots in the Coronavirus Battle

ercoerco Posts: 19,779
edited 2020-03-18 - 15:56:16 in Robotics
These are great, might have been better if controlled by a BS-1!

But at $80-90K each, I'd say that sounds like gouging or profiteering.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/medical-robots/autonomous-robots-are-helping-kill-coronavirus-in-hospitals

Comments

  • Actually that is a bargain price for such a device. Take what you know about development costs, regulatory costs and multiply by 10^3. Yeah the parts cost really is not big a part of the unit cost, just gets blown sky-high from all the regulatory and testing requirements that come with the word medical. Then while I can repair a board for a couple bucks worth of NTE parts, OEMs don't have the field force to do component level work in the field. Replace the failed board. Said board comes with lots of expensive regulatory costs such as tracking source, performance, FDA requirements on top of that and adds up more. Also a limited market for these to cover all the costs by the mfr. Anybody in the '90s in medical probably went through more iterations of GMP. PGMP, newGMP, final GMP, really truly final GMP till they were sick of it. Got to where if I taught three or more iterations of a course without having to revise it yet again for the FDA GMP #$%$# it was a good year......

    They only sell because they are cost efficient. They can for a one time cost (and maybe a service contract) replace multiple FTEs for each one acquired. If one replaces 6 40K/yr workers and lasts 7 years, you see why they still sell at 90k/unit. They work 24/7 when up. They claim to not miss anything. Some workers will still be needed because I don't see UV working in areas with lots of obstructions blocking the UV from some locations. But that is just another example of the 80/20 rule. These things disinfect 80% of everything, but you still need to get the other 20% done by hand. So the price will be limited by the balance. It's all in the numbers.

  • ercoerco Posts: 19,779
    I guess in the big (2 trillion dollars) picture you're right, $90K really IS chump change.

    I tend to think about dollars like I'm paying for it myself. Related, it's really great to see a lot of individual DIYers and universities stepping in to create masks, ventilators, face shields etc during this crisis. The problem is that they lack medical certification. Today I hear that Dyson made a ventilator in just 10 days: https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/tech/dyson-ventilators-coronavirus/index.html

    People are awesome, especially when the chips are down.

  • ercoerco Posts: 19,779
    More impressive action by Prusa, maker of 3d printers.

    https://newatlas.com/3d-printing/prusa-research-face-shields/
  • Hopefully an expedited process can be created that won't compromise patient safety. IMnsHO, the best way would be similar to Tesla and Medtronic having Tesla produce vents as long as it is a cleared released design. Don't need new designs, just existing devices in (use SNL conehead voice) mass quantities.
  • Why do you think any Car Manufacturer could switch its production to ventilators?

    Dyson - hmm - builds stuff pushing/pulling air thru filters, they do that for years. But Ford/Tesla/Name your Brand?

    Kind of a very different product, isn't it? How about Farmers not feeding their cows and sewing face-masks? Insurance Agents putting rubber bands on them?

    Sorry Frank aber das ist doch Kuhkacke, wo ist denn da die logic?

    Mike
  • Dyson ventilators:
    577 x 1024 - 52K
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,516
    edited 2020-03-29 - 18:22:42
    That's very interesting about UVD-robots. They say it uses a UVC germicidal wavelength of 254nm. I am wondering from the company name if they are aiming to migrate to UVD, which is more often referred to as far UVC. Evidently shorter wavelengths, say 220nm, don't penetrate the outer layer of skin or the cornea of the eye, however that wavelength is equally effective against viruses and bacteria. There was a seminal paper in Nature from a year ago February that demonstrated the efficiency of 222nm against H1N1. The study used a krypton-chorine light bulb and narrowband filter, which is I think not something off the shelf at home depot. But if the lamps can be produced, it has potential for use even when people are present.

    Another thing as a more pressing need, health workers right now need to stretch use of N95 masks due to the terrible shortage. UV might be effective, 10 minute up exposure. You can buy even buy a germicidal lamp online to disinfect your phone--Why not a special chamber for personal masks?


  • @msrobots, you are correct in your analogies. How they plan to do it I don't really know, other than it may be a matter of existing product, workforce available that can perform assembly and a place to do it. And hopefully a trained group to test/certify the function.

    Whatever they come up with will require trained clinicians to use these devices. What will the process be for that? Vents are not just slip a face mask over the patient and turn it on.

    @Mickster I hesitate to ask, is she now an "old bagless"?
  • Tracy AllenTracy Allen Posts: 6,516
    edited 2020-04-04 - 23:46:11
    University of Nebraska Medical center maybe could use a robot to wheel their UV disinfection pyramid (UVGI tower) around within a room. As it is, they wheel the UVGI into a room and let it rip for 3 to 5 minutes. For mask disinfection, they hang the personally labelled masks on what amounts to a clothesline between a pair of UVGIs, and let it rip until the masks have been hit with a calibrated dose well above what should be sufficient.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-masks-reuse.html
    The specific protocol designed by Dr. John Lowe is thorough and full of quantitative information.
    https://www.nebraskamed.com/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19/n-95-decon-process.pdf
  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,739
    edited 2020-04-05 - 18:22:41
    Guess that means we can probably dredge up all of our old EPROM eraser knowledge and build sanitizing boxes using the similar techniques. plug, ballast, timer, sliding drawer, lines to hang things in the box for full coverage exposure, interlock, UV lamp, etc. The old erasers were not that hard to build. These could be the same thing again on steroids. And of course mirror the insides so no shadows anywhere.
  • I think I sold my eeprom eraser a few years ago. Oh well.

    As for mechanization, the approach taken in that article is labor intensive, having to hang all the masks on a clothesline in the middle of a big room. A conveyer through a long shielded tube surrounded by the lamps would be far more efficient. There is little point to a special effort to make such a thing though, because disinfection is a poor substitute for having enough masks to begin with. A UV tanning bed fitted with germicidal tubes instead of UVA/UVB tanning bulbs might be a ready substitute. Guessing germicidal bulbs are in short supply now too.


  • I think I sold my eeprom eraser a few years ago. Oh well.

    As for mechanization, the approach taken in that article is labor intensive, having to hang all the masks on a clothesline in the middle of a big room. A conveyer through a long shielded tube surrounded by the lamps would be far more efficient. There is little point to a special effort to make such a thing though, because disinfection is a poor substitute for having enough masks to begin with. A UV tanning bed fitted with germicidal tubes instead of UVA/UVB tanning bulbs might be a ready substitute. Guessing germicidal bulbs are in short supply now too.


    I still have my eprom eraser and a pile of 2708/16/32/64 chips packed away somewhere. Home brew 12" fixture and a germicidal fluorescent tube. Came across it last year when I was looking for something else. Still works.
  • ercoerco Posts: 19,779
    Robot Covid throat swabber in Denmark.

    https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3940978
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