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Parallax P2 Eval Board

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Comments

  • W9GFO share the idea that I was going to! I have run into this several times for special order items at various sites.
    The items are on the normal store, but they usually use $999,999.99 or some other value that is unlikely to be approved via any credit system.
  • Its a fun idea.

    As for the arbitrary $10k or whatever, you could just estimate the P2 development cost to date, and divide by 110~135 boards, before applying that special "valued P2 champion" discount voucher
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    Peter already knows, but just to record it, I would like a P2D2.
  • Same here Cluso. I've mentioned it in a few places to hope it doesn't get overlooked!
  • Got it fellas, and as soon as I've got some, you've got it too.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 15,164
    edited 2018-11-15 16:10
    If you priced the board at $1000, somebody might actually pay that...

    I'm glad to be here at the launch of P2.
    Think I was still learning Basic Stamps when P1 came out...
  • Rayman wrote: »
    If you priced the board at $1000, somebody might actually pay that...

    I was just thinking that. : P
    The price would have to be some insane amount like $999,999.99
    Because someone might make a mistake with the coupon code and charge themselves $999.99.
  • W9GFO wrote: »
    You could put them in the store like you said but make the price $10,000. Then generate some single use coupon codes for $9,850 or $10,000 off and have someone send those via PM to the people that qualify.

    Just an idea...

    Cool, finally I can fill up the shopping cart with all the goodies Parallax offers and I never could buy - and pay with a Coupon. :smile:

    Mike
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    Rayman wrote: »
    If you priced the board at $1000, somebody might actually pay that...
    $10,000 was the suggested price - if someone wanted to pay that - I say let 'em!
  • W9GFO wrote: »
    $10,000 was the suggested price - if someone wanted to pay that - I say let 'em!

    It's got to be signed by Chip! :)
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,190
    edited 2018-11-15 18:54
    cgracey wrote: »
    We should have the P2 Eval PCBs back towards the end of next week.

    Did you order those with thicker copper ? eg I noticed pcbway had no price change for 1.5oz on inner layers.

  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,279
    jmg wrote: »

    Did you order those with thicker copper ? eg I noticed pcbnew had no price change for 1.5oz on inner layers.

    We had hoped for 4 oz copper on the bottom of the board, but some spaces/traces precluded that. It will be 3 oz copper.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,190
    cgracey wrote: »

    We had hoped for 4 oz copper on the bottom of the board, but some spaces/traces precluded that. It will be 3 oz copper.

    How do they do thick copper on one layer ? - does that mean layers 3,4 are 3 Oz ?
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,279
    jmg wrote: »

    How do they do thick copper on one layer ? - does that mean layers 3,4 are 3 Oz ?

    It was some kind of composite sandwich. The bottom layer was not associated materially with the other layers.
  • jmg wrote: »

    How do they do thick copper on one layer ? - does that mean layers 3,4 are 3 Oz ?

    My understanding (at least from local pcb manufacturer) is the core is made from normal FR4 2 layer, typically 1/2 oz copper, for the middle 2 layers (2 and 3), and to this they clad 'prepreg' single fibreglass layer 1 and 4. And the copper thickness is grown from a 'seed' thickness, but I would think 3 oz copper would therefore apply to both outer layers 1 and 4.

    This is all good, 3oz copper will be really solid. Nothing can go wrong.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,279
    Here is from the PCB manufacturer:

    P2_Eval_PCB.png
    690 x 653 - 37K
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,279
    You can see that it's actually two boards with a "core" spacer between them that carries the long vias. Short vias can exist between L1 and L2, and between L3 and L4.
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    msrobots wrote: »
    Cool, finally I can fill up the shopping cart with all the goodies Parallax offers and I never could buy - and pay with a Coupon. :smile:
    I'm confident they would have the foresight to make the coupon valid only for the P2 Eval Board.
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2018-11-15 21:32
    Thanks for sharing Chip! That's a fat board! Should have some good thermal characteristics.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,190
    cgracey wrote: »
    You can see that it's actually two boards with a "core" spacer between them that carries the long vias. Short vias can exist between L1 and L2, and between L3 and L4.

    Usually they charge more for blind vias, are you using any of those ?

    I notice the core is quite thick, and the 2 x 2 layer boards are thin, would make layer-layer capacitance higher on 1-2 and 3-4.
  • Thats right, the 1-2 or 3-4 capacitance I figure would be about 3~4nF, if it was whole layer to whole layer coupling.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,279
    edited 2018-11-15 21:38
    jmg wrote: »

    Usually they charge more for blind vias, are you using any of those ?

    I notice the core is quite thick, and the 2 x 2 layer boards are thin, would make layer-layer capacitance higher on 1-2 and 3-4.

    Probably.

    We are using blind vias on L1-L2, probably on L3-L4, too.

    Notice the bottom copper plating is twice as thick as the substrate it's attached to. They can do 4mil vias on those thin substrates.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,190
    cgracey wrote: »
    Notice the bottom copper plating is twice as thick as the substrate it's attached to. They can do 4mil vias on those thin substrates.

    Wow, so it is.... could be interesting to measure a bare board inherent decoupling capacitances.


    cgracey wrote: »
    We are using blind vias on L1-L2, probably on L3-L4, too.

    What was the price-adder for using bind vias ?

  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    cgracey wrote: »

    He said he'll get to this next week.
    Any news about the 3d model?
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,279
    W9GFO wrote: »
    Any news about the 3d model?

    I just emailed VonSzarvas, who is working on this. He will say something soon.
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,279
    Jmg, I don't know what it cost for the blind vias.

    Here is some communication on the PCB ordering...
    Finally we got the stackup. (attached).
    Looks fine on 4oz.


    The price difference if we reduce that to 3oz or 2oz is $100 per oz drop.
    (About $0.80 saving per pcb on 3oz, $1.60 on 2oz)

    Are you happy with 4oz, or dial that back a bit ?


    ALSO....

    Should we order these on 6 day or 10 day ?

    6 day adds about $3 per board. ( $18.45 vs $15.30 )
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2018-11-15 22:57
    Will the PCB be Open Source?
  • evanhevanh Posts: 16,466
    Swear word!
  • Publison wrote: »
    Will the PCB be Open Source?

    Our PCB files have always been open source long before an organization existed to validate the purpose.

    We will put out PCB files after we prove out the functionality of the design. You will be able to do what you want with them, free of restrictions.

    But this will only happen after we know the PCB is a known, working product.

    Thanks,

    Ken Gracey
  • jmgjmg Posts: 15,190
    Ken Gracey wrote: »

    Our PCB files have always been open source long before an organization existed to validate the purpose.

    We will put out PCB files after we prove out the functionality of the design. You will be able to do what you want with them, free of restrictions.

    I think most vendors publish their eval info, because it is in everyone's interest to have good reference designs.
    That was one reason I tried to get Chip to improve the Switcher design, to something more 2018+ and elegant.

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