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Turning the Prop into a simple oscilloscope? — Parallax Forums

Turning the Prop into a simple oscilloscope?

MarkSMarkS Posts: 342
edited 2007-12-30 10:42 in Propeller 1
I'd like to do this. With a Prop running at 80MHz, I could create a scope, in theory, with a few dollars in parts that would rival a several hundred dollar scope.

The only issue I am having with the design, which currently only resides in my head, is the voltage divider circuit. I want to use a rotory switch connected to a voltage divider to allow testing of signals above the 3.3v limit of the Prop. A voltage divider circuit is simple, but what if·I wanted to test a signal less than 3.3v? How do you multiply a voltage? I don't think I've ever seen a circuit that does that. All I can come up with is a multi-wind transformer. That doesn't seem like a very ellegant solution though.

Comments

  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2007-12-29 17:25
    MarkS,
    It's already been done. You've got an existing design that you can build on: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=692191.

    This sort of range thing is normally done with a voltage divider as you expect, but with an op amp acting as a buffer. You can use the same op amp as an amplifier for signals less than 3.3V.
  • AribaAriba Posts: 2,685
    edited 2007-12-29 17:43
    MarkS said...
    I don't think I've ever seen a circuit that does that.

    Look at the attached picture, and you have seen one. smile.gif

    Andy
    380 x 161 - 1K
  • deSilvadeSilva Posts: 2,967
    edited 2007-12-29 17:50
    An opamp is a device most adaquate for software people. It is absolutely logical in any respect, expect in cases when REAL electronics is involved by temperatur effects, very high frequencies or very low voltage/current.

    Otherwise it can be considered as a piece of software, busy regulating its output so that the the VOLTAGE at the + and the - input become exactly equal.

    So there MUST be a feedback.

    All kinds of opamp circuits can be understood and parametrized following that simple rule!
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,162
    edited 2007-12-29 18:18
    I you just care about audio frequencies and below and you don't care too much about the input impedance, you can just use two pins, a couple resistors and caps to make an ADC circuit that can have an input range above and below the 3.3V rail just by changing resistor values. To get up to the MHz range, you'll need an external, fast ADC chip...
  • Sleazy - GSleazy - G Posts: 79
    edited 2007-12-29 19:09
    You could always set an op amp up to perform AUTOMATIC GAIN COMPENSATION

    you can set the AGC·signal so that it·would always be attenuated to either boost or compress gain to 3.3v full scale
    use some signal diodes to clamp your signal voltages between the rails also

    this way you can keep the threshold right in the middle of full scale signals

    this circuit , I believe, includes an op amp IC within the feedback loop of another op amp IC, so its more of a specialty circuit than a single·op amp buffer or such

    youre going to wind up with a compressed signal , so you might need amplitude modulation on the output to readjust the gain compensated signal back into its appropriate voltage levels.·

    OR you could rise to the level of a god and use a 6922 Twin Triode vaccuum tube amplifier setup.· Putting a lightbulb resistor in these circuits attenuates the gain naturally, due to the ratio of temperature to heat loss (q=eoT^4), as the signal increases in strength, the bulb dissipates more and more power, exponentially, effectively compressing the circuit.· This is old school, but NO semiconductors! no switching. Ancient compression.

    oh yeah, you dont necessairly need feedback. Most op amps require feedback loop closure because the open loop gain is in the order of 10's of thousands.·Like 741's. ·HOWEVER,· Theres alot of op amps out there that provide open loop gains of lower values , like 4 or 10 , so that you can use the amp as a comparator· ( not having to virtually ground the output by feedback to the input )·.· It keeps the system working more like a buffer, where each input terminal of the amp has just one trace , keeping the input impedance closer to infinite, which is a good thing.· It will, however , suffer from excessive output offset error without feedback. You also wouldnt have to add external resistors to set the gain in one of these open loopers.·

    ·
  • deSilvadeSilva Posts: 2,967
    edited 2007-12-29 19:19
    By definition an ideal opamp has infinite voltage gain smile.gif
    Something with 4 or 10 is
    - either an internally compensated package
    or
    - no opamp at all.
    That's why they are marketed as "comparator".
  • Sleazy - GSleazy - G Posts: 79
    edited 2007-12-30 10:42
    All op amps are internally compensated with feedback·on the transistor level, at least at the offset null junctions, where in 741's·a pair of matched 1kohm resistors constantly feeds back through a 50kohm resistor to a·node shared by a pair of mirrored transistors' base junctions.·Both sides of the differential amplifier portion of that opamp's design include the emitters of each of these .· You can see its constantly being fed back to keep the null offset right.·

    You could make a salami sandwich and under the right conditions you could still call it an op amp.· Its just got really bad
    ·output offset and really bad common mode rejection and really bad thermal linearity......

    The salami sandwich, you see, ideally has infinite open-bun gain , but today the gain is .001 for anything spectrally outside of 420hz +/- .00001.·

    keep in mind the salami is doped nono.gif
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