PROP OS...looking looking looking
Ron Sutcliffe
Posts: 420
Looking to get together a Prop stand-alone system, which I can use to write, save and run small PASM code. I don’t want to run my laptop when if I can avoid it.
Hardware is an RPM Proto board (Should upgrade to 64K of just buy another Prop board)
I have SD card up and running and modified a 5X7 photo frame for
NTSC input (great, clear 40 X 13 white characters, on Blue Background)
Don’t ask me what brand ..@ deSilva… or a data sheet……….I’m in Malaysia.. with Chinese products you got to be thankful if it just works!
Keyboard still to pick up, So will use PC_Keyboard for now.
@Mike….lots of good stuff in your OS, but much of your work I will not use. I need a real stripped down version.
If your answer is do it yourself I will start but it is project worth while doing anyway and you have probably done already.
Ron
Comments
The roofs falling in on the Hub too.....help
difficult to judge for me what you are really doing
I GUESS you have a working system at the moment, where the MAIN COMPONENTS are
- a PS/2 Keyboard (with a driver: COG#1)
- a whatever TV display (with TV driver: COG#2)
- an SD card (with basic driver: COG#3)
- a filesystem (will need no COG but some HUB)
- some interactive "shell" (like femto Basic or whatever "editor", able to perform some "commands" and do basic file editing; will need no COG, but considerable HUB)
What you are in need of is:
- an assembler/loader for PASM
This should be not such difficult, there are some cross compilers available or in the make. It is much simpler than FemtoBasic, and maybe it will be a good idea to just take Femto Basic and substitute the Basic in it
You also need some "Debug Support"....
What you are striving at - in fact - is the same idea as behind the FORTH implementations; in fact as behind FORTH in the first place...
Forth can (!) imbed machine code to some extend, but both FORTHs running "a little bit" at the moment do not.
I would guess you will first run out of HUB - having all this in 32kB seems nearly impossible.
Just consider your source file: When you have just 300 machine instructions to generate, you need:
2K for the COG image
20 Byte*300 = 6K byte for the moderately commented source file
1K for the TV
maybe you can get the Keyboard, TV, SD card COG image space recycled = 6K with the editor buffer, then you have 25kB left for SPIN to handle editing/compiling/debugging.
Well, it is not impossible "per se", but quite challenging....
Post Edited (deSilva) : 12/28/2007 12:30:36 PM GMT
Yes assembler loader is main issue (I think)
Yes Hardware is correct.
1.Boot assembly loader(cog #0)
2.Plan to mod Tv_text and add simple text eding and cursor, with Text data to @someTextbuffer ( Cog #2)
3.Yes, FullDuplexSerial for Keyboard (Cog#1)
4.Sd Card at (cog#3) to read and write to and from SD card to Hub @someTextBuffer. To save from of course
I got most of step 2 going with "screentext_", I know that I am making hard for myself, using this way of producing a cursor, but don't like the "change character/background color" technique and am stuck with Prop Character set Set. Maybe there is another way, this is the place to find out.
Let me get some down on paper first and I' ll run it past you then.
But yes you got .....Bare Bones Standalone system just PASM
Mike, must of started from there, but I don't want the extra baggage. So thats why I posted.
Yes I know we have some here...
It would mainly produce a SPIN compatible text output to be included in a DAT section, but having MACRO features and generating better listings, containing timing information, warnings WRT patch actions (modification to an instruction whitout the correct "0-0" in it), etc, etc
An assembler in SPIN is possible, maybe even simpler in combination with a "structured editor"... I should like that....
But an open question is still the "interfacing":
- So you write your 400 lines of machine code
- So you load it into a free COG
- So it runs.
- If it is really "stand-alone" this is fine. But it will most likely need interfacing to HUB addresses!? The rest of the sstem however consists of your "IDE"...
I know you don't have a brand name on that photo frame, but would you share the details that you can on how you got this working? Also, any identifiable chips inside. I suspect that because it's made in China, there can't be that many deviations between one unit and another. If one can work, I'll bet whatever mods you did will work with many others. Any details would be valuable here...
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Getting started with the Protoboard? - Propeller Cookbook
Got an SD card? - PropDOS
A Living Propeller FAQ - The Propeller Wiki
(Got the Knowledge? Got a Moment? Add something today!)
To my very brief info on them, they mostly run with a SD or other card for photos, music, whatever else. I wasn't aware they had any video input.
Any schematic of that i/f? Yes, any details. As I've been considering one of them for some months now. Always, the frame is so much larger than the actual display area; dang way too much
Thanks for any/all clues as to your Prop to photo frame i/f.
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Harley Shanko
The one I have, and they are readily available here have a USB SD, MS, MMC, CF slot. They are all “no name” brands but there are a few to choose from. The one I purchased did not have AVI IN/OUT, most of them do now. I was assured it was available on the board, and sure enough it was not too difficult to trace. I believe some are even marked
They must be shipped with different cases for some reason (but here AV I/O seems to be available). I was hoping that I would not have to take the back off my Photo Frame again. It’s the usual double-sided tape job. I will have to do it though, because I want some info on the Card Slots before I go to Singapore at the end of Jan, and hopefully I will be able to come back with information that we both want.
There seems to be quite a bit of interest in these great 5X7 screens. ($US 65 here)
Have been looking at a stripped down version of PropDos, for the basis of my tiny PASM standalone System Any Stand-alone system needs to recover from “buggy”, or malicious code at reset. Re-Boot from PropDos @ P 30, 31 will solve that problem. The exercise for me is coming to terms with PROP, but even at this very early stage I see some interesting possible extensions.
Ron
I'm pleased that you found PropDOS useful. I spent alot of time banging my head against my desk to get that keyboard input routine working! Looking forward to seeing your project in action!
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Getting started with the Protoboard? - Propeller Cookbook
Got an SD card? - PropDOS
A Living Propeller FAQ - The Propeller Wiki
(Got the Knowledge? Got a Moment? Add something today!)
Just get the prop to prop loader object from the exchange, with femtobasic. use the Femto in prop·1·to load SD spin programs to the 2nd prop.
We are indeed fortunate to had been raised been and educated in the Western World.
Even a PROP at $20 (proto board) is expensive if your parents earn $5 per day.
A Keyboard, Prop 1 Gig Sd Card and small battery, gets the a student up and running.
Most have a TV in their homes.
Parallax has an agent here, who runs courses for students,
but mainly with BS2, few would have their own boards.
BS2 requires a PC of some sort.
At 16 or 17 years many have studied medium level mathematics, and often fluent in three languages
Most have some form of TV in their homes.
I am not a teacher, and don't have a compelling reason for doing this
other than wanting to come to terms with this new chip for myself.
Ron