Hot Tub heater
metron9
Posts: 1,100
It has to be almost 0 degrees F on christmas eves,eve when again I have a hot tub heater failure.
I have had a Hot Tub for 15 years now, actually about 7 years on this last one. I replaced a flowthrough heater 3 months ago (Heater is a Balboa 5.5kw 240V 15" x 2" 825 M7) with an element· bought on the internet from www.hottubworks.com SKU# 1-HE-624409
24 hours ago the tempreture was only 94 degrees. It was 84 degrees last night at 9:00PM The Temperature is holding at 84 degrees now for 12 hours.
My task is to decide what to do. If the tub freezes it will cost me a lot of money. I have a new element (same as the one·I bought above as I prepared for the future by ordering 2 elements.)
The thing is though,·I don't thing it is the element because it is holding 84 degrees.· The HEAT lamp is on so I assume the element is getting power.
My question is, could it be the element is getting 220V and only partially working?
If I don't try and fix it will it fail completly and freeze?
By writing this I realize I could test a few things
How much voltage is actually going to the element.
Test the resistance of the new element and the one in the tub now to see if it is the same.
Call the pool store, they may be open today [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Any other Ideas before·I freeze my fingers off?
·
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Think Inside the box first and if that doesn't work..
Re-arrange what's inside the box then...
Think outside the BOX!
Post Edited (metron9) : 12/24/2007 2:48:22 PM GMT
I have had a Hot Tub for 15 years now, actually about 7 years on this last one. I replaced a flowthrough heater 3 months ago (Heater is a Balboa 5.5kw 240V 15" x 2" 825 M7) with an element· bought on the internet from www.hottubworks.com SKU# 1-HE-624409
24 hours ago the tempreture was only 94 degrees. It was 84 degrees last night at 9:00PM The Temperature is holding at 84 degrees now for 12 hours.
My task is to decide what to do. If the tub freezes it will cost me a lot of money. I have a new element (same as the one·I bought above as I prepared for the future by ordering 2 elements.)
The thing is though,·I don't thing it is the element because it is holding 84 degrees.· The HEAT lamp is on so I assume the element is getting power.
My question is, could it be the element is getting 220V and only partially working?
If I don't try and fix it will it fail completly and freeze?
By writing this I realize I could test a few things
How much voltage is actually going to the element.
Test the resistance of the new element and the one in the tub now to see if it is the same.
Call the pool store, they may be open today [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Any other Ideas before·I freeze my fingers off?
·
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Think Inside the box first and if that doesn't work..
Re-arrange what's inside the box then...
Think outside the BOX!
Post Edited (metron9) : 12/24/2007 2:48:22 PM GMT
Comments
If you feel comfortable with it you could short the thermostat a few minutes and see if the temp got above 84.
Jeff T.
Here are a few tips when troubleshooting an electric hot water heater, or anything else that operates in a similar fashion. I can't imagine a hot tub operates all that much differently.
First thing, don't use a neon test light or anything but a voltmeter when testing any live voltages. The test light may light without 220 volts being present, such as a one leg hot condition where only 110 volts shows up at the element. This can happen if there is a fusible disconnect switch near the unit with just one fuse blown.
Second, I always make it a practice to view the voltage without the presence of the element in the circuit. This means you must turn the power off, disconnect one terminal of the element and carefully move it to the side where it can't touch anything. Turn the power back on, and check the voltage between the remaining WIRED terminal, and the loose wire you just disconnected. If you measure 220 volts, you KNOW you have the proper power there.
Insofar as the thermostat is concerned, that is a very good possibility. Here's what you must watch out for when testing it. Thermostats may become intermittant. That is to say they may "cycle" properly 2-3 times in a row, and then fail over the next 20 minutes. You need to test it both under load (while voltage is applied to it) a few times and also multiple times with the power off, checking it for continuity. It MUST open and close EVERY time you expect it to, otherwise it may well have become intermittant. At that juncture it needs to be replaced.
Also remember when testing a high voltage thermostat that a DOUBLE POLE thermostat often has an OFF position, and a SINGLE POLE thermostat usually DOES NOT. This is also a safety consideration as well as a troubleshooting tip.
Good luck with it, and many of us will be here through the day and night.
Regards,
Bruce Bates
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I just tested setting the thermostat down to 80 degrees, (that's the lowest setting) and the heater indicator turns off. Setting it above 84 and the heater indicator goes on.
It seems with that test , the thermostat is reading the temperature correct, the heater must be working to some degree to keep the water at 84.
I will test the voltage to the heater element next, if that checks out, i will disconnect the heater connections to the 220V (after shutting the breaker off) and test the resistance of the element.
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Think Inside the box first and if that doesn't work..
Re-arrange what's inside the box then...
Think outside the BOX!
that was a thought I had but since the unit is running i discounted it. The fuse is a 50amp GFI breaker though so i don't think that could be the problem. I will test voltages though.
The thermostats are small stainless steel cylinders. I have 2 new ones. They connect to a digital board in the tub so i think they are resistive thermostats, i will test them as well. I better get my thermal underweare on first.
on with the testing, i will report back.
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Think Inside the box first and if that doesn't work..
Re-arrange what's inside the box then...
Think outside the BOX!
-Phil
I measured 220VAC when the coil is connected.
I measured only 78VAC when I disconnect one terminal and measure just the wires that go to the heater.
Tested the resistance or the heater element and it shows open circuit.
Perhaps the element is partially working and has a resistance when a higher voltage is applied.
It is obvious the element is not good, I will replace it.
That leaves the voltage measurement in question though as it should be 220V unless it is in a power save mode or something when I restarted it.
EDIT>>> All is well, back to 104F.· I am going to make a·7 segment display to hang over the edge of the tub so·I can see the temperature from my window, in case we don't use it every day it will alert me to a heater problem.
·
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Think Inside the box first and if that doesn't work..
Re-arrange what's inside the box then...
Think outside the BOX!
Post Edited (metron9) : 12/25/2007 3:58:07 AM GMT
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Shawn Lowe
Maybe I should have waited to do that......
Yes, the coil was open circuit, It must have had some heating ability at 220V though because the water stayed at 84F and i know there is no other heater.
I tested it with my bench supply at 27VDC but no current flowed. I am waiting for response from distributor or coil to see if they will replace for free.
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Think Inside the box first and if that doesn't work..
Re-arrange what's inside the box then...
Think outside the BOX!
how does the water get heated by the coil....is it an emersed coil? inline?
Just curious if you have hard water and it's coating your coil with an insulating layer of lime/calcium?! This might cause it to overheat (the coil material) and crack...not sure.
Cheers
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<FONT>Steve
What's the best thing to do in a lightning storm? "take a one iron out the bag and hold it straight up above your head, even God cant hit a one iron!"
Lee Travino after the second time being hit by lightning!
It could be it overheated if there was an air bubble in the heater tube but there is a flow valve that would stop the heating so I don't think it overheated. (it worked for a few months) I think it was a bad coil. Nothing yet from the distributor. Just crossing my fingers that this one will work for about 2 years. I plan to order a backup but I want to see if they respond to my email first.
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Think Inside the box first and if that doesn't work..
Re-arrange what's inside the box then...
Think outside the BOX!
Oddly enough, snow is very good for solar water heating as there is lots of reflected sunlight. Fog and overcast are about the worst weather for solar heat.
From what I understand, the 'coil' is the same as the ones in electric hot water heats. It is an alloy tube filled with a powdered metal that creates a high resistance. It would be nice if you could adapt to using generic electric hot water elements as they may be both cheaper and easier to get.
Obviously that GFI circuit is quite important. It would be nice to have a periodic test cycle to assure that it is never malfunctioning. This might be a project for a Basic Stamp or having PINK which would send you email telling if the GFI ever fails its testing cycle.
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