Need Help on Patents
william chan
Posts: 1,326
To Anybody who has experience in Patents,
1. Let's say you got an idea for a Solar Powered Auto Gate, would such an idea be considered patentable?
2. Why is there a required waiting period for 18 months before you can commercialize the patent applied product?
3. Why some patent applications require a working prototype and some others just need drawings and documentation?
4. If a patent is nullified in one country, does it automatically get nullified as well in other countries?
5. Can we apply for a patent without using patent lawyers?
6. What is the best method/way to search for prior art or existing patents?
7. If assuming the Propeller infringes on some patents, would a product that includes the Propeller be considered as infringing the same patents as well?
Thanks a million.
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www.fd.com.my
www.mercedes.com.my
Post Edited (william chan) : 10/31/2007 6:16:43 AM GMT
1. Let's say you got an idea for a Solar Powered Auto Gate, would such an idea be considered patentable?
2. Why is there a required waiting period for 18 months before you can commercialize the patent applied product?
3. Why some patent applications require a working prototype and some others just need drawings and documentation?
4. If a patent is nullified in one country, does it automatically get nullified as well in other countries?
5. Can we apply for a patent without using patent lawyers?
6. What is the best method/way to search for prior art or existing patents?
7. If assuming the Propeller infringes on some patents, would a product that includes the Propeller be considered as infringing the same patents as well?
Thanks a million.
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www.fd.com.my
www.mercedes.com.my
Post Edited (william chan) : 10/31/2007 6:16:43 AM GMT
Comments
I managed to find prior art for almost all my ideas, which definitely saved me time that would have been wasted trying to pursue the patent application process.
1. That is a legal question, which could have one answer today and a different answer tomorrow.
5. Yes
4. That depends upon the reason for the decision... if it was because of prior art... then that finding could be used in other countries. But separate processes would be required in each.
In order to obtain a patent you must disclose your means and methods. Your application will be published and studied by people that may make use of your invention without your knowledge. And to keep a patent, you must defend it (which can cost much more than obtaining it).
The alternative to patents is to keep your proprietary information to yourself. Keeping business secrets entitles you to access the courts and offers you basic levels of protection against theft.
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My computer, http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=630466
Post Edited (boeboy) : 10/31/2007 2:49:58 PM GMT
2. There is no "cooling off" period, the 18 month period is the amount of time between the application being filed and the publication of the application, but this has to do with making US patent laws being more in line with foreign offices. There is a 1 year period between first publication (a product is considered a publication of sorts) and the filing of the patent limitation.
3. All patents require a working prototype, the office does not require the submission of the prototype which leads some applicants to incorrectly believe a prototype isn't required. But you best have a well documented working prototype because if you go into patent litigation and you don't have a prototype, you will be eaten alive and loose your patent.
4. No
5. In the US yes
6. Hire a patent searcher for a prior art search, they know the database and have the experience on how to use it and how to search for various inventive concepts. There are search rooms scattered about the country, the locations are availible from uspto.gov, but the results are only as good as the operator.
7. NO
Something to consider and the independent inventor never really grasps: independent inventors should stay out of the patent system unless one of two things is happening, either:
1) You have filled a Provisional and you have a company that has already expressed they will buy the IP rights, or
2) You have some VC's behind you ready to propel your product into the stratosphere
If neither of these situations apply to you, don't bother getting a patent, why? Because it's expensive, not just the aquisition of the IP but you must also spend money enforcing it. 90% of all patents obtained don't even make the owner enough money to recoup the cost of obtaining the patent, not to mention maintenance fees, hiring someone to periodically check for infringing patents and products, or the lawyer fees to take an infringing patent/product to court.
I speak from experience, I was a patent examiner before coming to work for Parallax.
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
1. We all know that Automatic Gates are common in the market. Let's say nobody has every tried to use Solar Panels to power an Auto Gate before. If you make a prototype of an Auto Gate and power it by a Solar Panel, what are the chances this new and idea can be patented?
8. If somebody (not from Parallax) later obtains a patent for a 8 core 32bit processor that can conditionally execute most instructions based on the Carry or Zero flag b'cos Parallax did not bother to apply for this patent, would that make the Propeller infringing the newly obtained patent?
9. Will filing of a patent in the US automatically makes it filed in other countries as well?
10. If it takes 1 year from submission to publication, does it mean that searches will not be able to find prior art if it is less than 1 year old?
11. Is there a law requiring US citizens to file a patent in the US Patent Office before filing it in other countries?
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
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www.fd.com.my
www.mercedes.com.my
Post Edited (william chan) : 11/1/2007 1:51:06 AM GMT
"...We all know that Automatic Gates are common in the market. Let's say nobody has every tried to use Solar Panels to power an Auto Gate before..."
Perhaps you are using this idea as an example. I don't want to burst your bubble, but I ride by a Solar powered gate at least 3 times a week on my bicycle.
... and a quick google search shows several different options. Here is a link to an add-on Solar kit that The Home Depot offers.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100000001&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&PID=1745719&cm_mmc=CJ-_-1596950-_-1745719-_-5%20Watt%20Solar%20Panel%20Kit%20for%20Automatic%20Gate%20Openers&URL=http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/BuildLinkToHomeDepot?linktype=product&id=100000001&cj=true&AID=10368321&cj=true
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Beau Schwabe
IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
9. No
10. No you can see applications
11. I don't think so because you may only want to sell in a given country. Likewise if you only intend a US market a world patent may not be worth it.
Graham
1) (section 102) Novelty, the invention is unique, noone has produced the product
2) (section 103) Obviousness, while the invention may be unique would the changes made over existing knowledge be to one of "ordinary skill in the art" so obvious that it is not considered inventive or novel.
The examiner in order to reject your application would have to find an identical invention (rejection under 102) or find all of the components disclosed in different publications and find some motivation in the references that combination of components was envisioned by one of the authors.
8) No because the Propeller constitutes "prior art", the behavior of the Propeller is well documented and part of the public domain knowledge, either the examiner does his job and uses the information to reject the application, or if the company trys to enforce it's (erroneously awarded) patent against Parallax the evidence of it's behaviour is presented in court and the court strips away the patent.
9) No, if you are interested in gaining protection in other coutries you must follow a different route, you must file a Patent Cooperation Treaty Application (PCT) to secure an international filling date and then individually file in each country you wish to obtain a patent in (there are currently close to 100 countries which participate in the PCT), this will get very expensive very fast and you'll find yourself going into the 100s of thousands just in filling fees.
10) Correct, applications are classified "confidential" until their Pre-Grant Publication date 18 months after filing, and if the application is only filed in the US, the applicant can file an affadavit stating as such and prevent any publication of the application unless it at some point becomes a patent.
11) see my answer to 9, there is a means of filing for a patent in the US first then filing a PCT, but check with a patent attorney before doing so, the rules can get a little complicated with PCTs.
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
12. If some company in China later starts producing a similar 8 core 32 bit processor that can execute based on flag conditions, can Parallax then quickly apply for a patent in China to try to stop this competing product?
13. Should inventors test market to see the popularity of their invention first before trying to patent it?
Would the idea become un-patentable if the product is already in the market, even though it is the applicant's own prior art?
Thanks again.
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www.fd.com.my
www.mercedes.com.my
Post Edited (william chan) : 11/2/2007 10:50:13 PM GMT
12. I suppose so, but we wouldn't bother. We already operate in China and we have an understanding of the buruecracy and their "IP" protection. We'd have to be operating on a full stomach of nothing but cash with the prospects of being publicly traded, or have a clear goal in mind that we'd be certain of winning. Based on our experience in China, the fact that we have no patents in China (or international patents), and the fact that such an event would wreck our existence it would be much easier to walk away and build our next product.
13. I have to ask the question why the patent is needed. Our research showed them to be of importance if we interested in pursuing copy cats and clones, rather than our current position of defense should we be pursued by somebody who claims we're infringing. The best thing you can do is establish prior art and put your design on the internet, in my opinion. And be the first to market, at the same time.
I'm not a lawyer, and neither is Paul. But I do know that it's best to focus on the project's completion and support/marketing instead of patents.
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
You're starting to get into alot of hypotheticals, I suggest you sit down with a patent attorney and he can answer your questions authoritatively. Just keep in mind he is in the patent business, and he will tell you to apply for a patent even if it's not what you really need.
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
·Heres a link to a awsome online book written about business and patents.The writer is the president of Sherline Mfg.
http://www.sherline.com/business.htm
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Thank's Brian
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