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Programmer for the propeller — Parallax Forums

Programmer for the propeller

rtarbellrtarbell Posts: 7
edited 2007-10-06 19:37 in Propeller 1
Does Parallax sell the propeller programmer in their online store? Once my program is completed, and my propeller is installed on a circuit board, how do I permanently burn the program into the chip?

Comments

  • Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,510
    edited 2007-10-05 19:42
    The prop clip or prop plug can be used, that is the programmer

    Graham
  • deSilvadeSilva Posts: 2,967
    edited 2007-10-05 20:04
    I think the OP wants to know how to install a program inside the Propeller rather than using an external EEPROM.
    A: That's not possible, I should say not even for A LOT of money smile.gif
  • Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,510
    edited 2007-10-05 20:46
    Yes the program goes on to the eeprom but you program that with the propclip/propplug by pressing F11. But it can still be overwritten later if you want.

    Graham
  • Ken PetersonKen Peterson Posts: 806
    edited 2007-10-05 21:07
    Design your board with a serial interface connection, so you can program it in-circuit using the prop plug or prop clip.

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    The more I know, the more I know I don't know.· Is this what they call Wisdom?
  • deSilvadeSilva Posts: 2,967
    edited 2007-10-05 21:12
    @RTARBEL: It's not obvious what your question was. We give just random advice at the moment....
  • Lee MarshallLee Marshall Posts: 106
    edited 2007-10-05 21:29
    maybe he means: how do i make it so that the prop can run without constantly being re-loaded from the PC?

    The prop has no onboard flash/eeprom memory like many other micros.

    on power-up, it looks for a connection to a computer, if there is one, it loads the data from the computer to its RAM, and it begins running the code.
    if there is no connection, it looks for an EXTERNAL I2C EEPROM(like the 24LC256), if it finds one, it loads the program from there.
    then, if there is no eeprom, it shuts down.

    See the boot-up sequence in the Prop Manual:
    www.parallax.com/dl/docs/prod/prop/WebPM-v1.01.pdf

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    Holy parallel processing, Batman!

    Post Edited (Mr Crowley) : 10/5/2007 9:34:16 PM GMT
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2007-10-05 23:29
    For most designs, you really need an EEPROM. There are advantages (and very little cost differential) to use an EEPROM larger than the minimum (32K). The Hydra for example uses a 128K byte EEPROM. It's possible to store data and program overlays in the extra EEPROM. FemtoBasic, BoeBotBasic, and the Propeller OS have provisions for loading programs from the extra EEPROM and copying them from the first 32K to other "pages" of EEPROM.
  • rtarbellrtarbell Posts: 7
    edited 2007-10-06 01:38
    Hello all,

    Sorry for my lack of clarity in posting my question; I am used to PIC micrcontrollers, and when programming a PIC, generally a person would need these tools:

    1) Source code from the assembler/compiler, compiled into a .hex file
    2) A proper programmer that will program the PIC chip (some programmers use the computer serial port, some are USB)
    3) The software driver that (usually) comes with the programmer to tell your computer how to use the programmer

    Not having programmed a Propeller chip yet, the idea of programming an EEPROM instead of the chip itself is new to me. So if I have this straight:

    1) I program the EEPROM by my computer with an EEPROM burner
    2) I install the EEPROM into my proto board with the Propeller chip on it (making sure my connections are correct)
    3) The chip runs my entire code by reading it off of the EEPROM

    What size/type EEPROM is recommended? Is it bad if I choose an EEPROM that is larger than what is needed for my code?
  • Timothy D. SwieterTimothy D. Swieter Posts: 1,613
    edited 2007-10-06 01:45
    You don't need an EEPROM burner.· If you are doing production run and simply want to make a LOT of EEPROMs then maybe you need the burner.· Otherwise the·EEPROM and the Propeller are installed·in the device and the prefered method is to connect to the board with a USB or Serial cable or Prop Plug/Clip.·

    Review the Demo Board schematics and the Prop Plug/Clip manual.· If you are designing a board you can design a USB to Serial connection to the Propeller.· As Mr Crowley pointed out below you should also review the boot sequence in the Propeller Manual.·



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    Timothy D. Swieter
    tdswieter.com
    One little spark of imagination is all it takes for an idea to explode
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2007-10-06 01:48
    Yes, the Propeller is perfectly capable of writing to the EEPROM. The ROM bootloader does this when commanded to by the PC and there are several different library routines that you can incorporate into your program that can read and write data from/to an EEPROM.
  • hippyhippy Posts: 1,981
    edited 2007-10-06 02:08
    @ rtarbell : As you are familiar with PICmicros it may help to think of the Propeller+Eeprom as a PICmicro which has been pre-programmed with a Serial Bootloader.

    You connect your serial cable ( PropPlug and so on ), then in the Propeller Tool press F11. This compiles the program, creates the Propeller equivalent of a .HEX file, downloads it to the Propeller where it is 'burnt to Flash' ( in this case written to the external Eeprom ), and it then runs this code whenever the Propeller is powered-up or reset.

    The other way of thinking of it is that the PropPlug is the equivalent of a Microchip ICD2 / PicKit2 using ICSP to do the programming.
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2007-10-06 02:56
    Hey rtArtbell,

    Just out of curiosity, by any chance... do you have an amateur radio license?

    Rich
  • deSilvadeSilva Posts: 2,967
    edited 2007-10-06 09:35
    I keep a class of students busy for some weeks now with:

    - a Prop
    - a PropPlug
    - a crystal
    - 5 wires on a solderless breadboard...

    Who needs an EEPROM? smile.gif
  • Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,510
    edited 2007-10-06 10:55
    Ah but deSilva I am sure you could keep a class happy with a piece of string and a potato [noparse];)[/noparse]
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2007-10-06 11:06
    I use a 24LC256.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

    Post Edited (Leon) : 10/6/2007 11:20:52 AM GMT
  • deSilvadeSilva Posts: 2,967
    edited 2007-10-06 14:08
    I think only Microchip calls it still "LC" ; the other manufacturers (ATMEL, Toshiba,...) have it 24C256. Don't fear! They all work from 2V7 upto 5V5.

    Warning: Don't use anything smaller! The whole RAM (32 MByte) must fit!
  • Stan671Stan671 Posts: 103
    edited 2007-10-06 15:55
    rtarbell said...
    So if I have this straight:

    1) I program the EEPROM by my computer with an EEPROM burner
    2) I install the EEPROM into my proto board with the Propeller chip on it (making sure my connections are correct)
    3) The chip runs my entire code by reading it off of the EEPROM
    No,· You have to let go of your previous knowledge of the PIC.· Free your mind, Neo.

    You communicate with the Prop chip via a serial interface to your PC.· After you write a program on your PC, you download it directly into the RAM of the Prop chip and run it.· But the RAM in the Prop is volatile and will forget when the power goes off.

    So, you connect an external EEPROM chip to the Prop Chip.· Then, when you download the program from your PC via the serial interface into the RAM of the Prop chip, you also have the option to tell the Prop chip to futher download that program into the EEPROM chip's non-volatile memory.

    Once the EEPROM chip has been programmed for the first time by the Prop chip, from then on, when the Prop is powered up, it will load it's RAM from the program stored in the EEPROM.

    So, there is no direct programming of the EEPROM by the PC - it is done by the Prop chip.· There is no "burner" needed and there is no need to move chips around from one place to another.

    Look at the schematics of the various prototyping kits from Parallax to see how the EEPROM is wired to the Prop and how the serial (either USB or RS232) is connected to the Prop chip.· This will help you understand the relationship between the components.

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    Stan Dobrowski
  • rtarbellrtarbell Posts: 7
    edited 2007-10-06 19:37
    Yes! Thank you all for your replies! I saw page 3 of the prop clip/plug programmer, and that schematic answers all my questions...
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