The theme is Green...

Beau Schwabe

At our local church, the theme is Green and there is a·growing educational·group·discussing·different ways that we can save energy.
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My question to the forum is....
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Do you exercise power saving techniques·with the things you design, or do you just add more batteries/power to solve your problem?
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Beau Schwabe

IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

The main factors that determine what, if any, power saving techniques I use are:

····1. Where does the power come from, and how much is available?
····2. How much heat will be generated, and can I get rid of it?
····3. How do the power requirements contribute to the overall size and cost?

These factors alone tend to limit the power that my designs consume. But I'm afraid that:

····4. How much does my design contribute to global warming and our dependence on fossil fuels?

gets trumped by other concerns. It shouldn't, necessarily, but it does. And admittedly, where milliwatts are concerned, I don't think about #4 all that much. If I did, I'd be using a lot more switching regulators and fewer three-pin linear regs!

-Phil

Beau Schwabe

Phil,

Yeah, I think that is going to be the case in most circumstances, but I thought I would throw the question out there anyway to see what some of the other responses were.

In my own practices over the years, many of the applications have been battery operated. As a result I have been in the·mode of designing from the efficient minimalist approach. Most people don't realize how much power they consume and they take for granted what is immediately available. You gain an appreciation of what it actually takes to power things when you explore alternative energy methods. For example, in my own office I have 3 computers consisting of One Laptop and 2 PC's. On a good sunny day, I can take the laptop completely off-grid with a dedicated 23 Watt solar panel. And although the PC's for now must remain on the grid, I have another
45 Watts of solar power to supplement other electronics in my office. My goal eventually though is to have my home office grid-free.

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Beau Schwabe

IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.

Post Edited (Beau Schwabe (Parallax)) : 9/21/2007 2:56:22 AM GMT

Gadgetman

Can't say that I've been so very good at energy-saving in my projects until now.
(I will need to be, though, as I have a couple of battery-powered projects planned)

I'm in the process of getting a new apartment, and there I'm 'taking measures'.
Main heating for kitchen/livingroom will be an air-to-air 'heat pump.
(consider it an AC running backwards. This one'll give me up to 4KW of heat for a 1KW input)
Secondary heating will be a woodburning stove capable of delivering up to 6KW(with good firewood) of heat.
It's a 'clean burning' design with two chambers, so it's VERY efficient.

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Dgswaner

With my project cost is the biggest factor... I am learning to design with a minimalistic approach, but when my calcs say I can use a motor that draws 1A @ 24v at this many rpm.... etc. it's all good but when I go to build the project do I find a new motor that fits the exact spec for $100+ or do I buy the suplus 1.5A motor that's close but more than what I need for $15.00.

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A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster

Tracy Allen

It's kind of an obsession. Most of our systems are running on solar and/or battery, and they have to be light weight and small. I SLEEP and NAP a lot, in programs, that is. I do so personally too, but not as much as I could to conserve global energy! The systems also control relatively power hungry equipment by turning the power on only when needed. For example, we have a monitor that needs to operate from 20 minutes before sunset to 20 minutes after sunrise, so the program contains code to look up the sunrise and sunset times for every day of the year at the location. It turns on that power, some 20 to 70 milliamps, not much by some standards, and if for some reason the system battery is low (winter sunlight not up to snuff), it marks the data file and shuts off until the next cycle. Many of the systems use sealed Pb-acid batteries because they are easy to charge and are a very stable technology, and there is a good system in place in many countries for recycling as they are rohs compliant by exemption. However, I am migrating toward lithium batteries because of their high energy density and good temperature characteristics. Both lithium primary and secondary cells are coming down in price. I've run a BASIC Stamp 2pe data logger off of a stack of 2 CR2032 coin cells for weeks at an average current of <100 microamps. Of course the BS1 or BS2 could do better, and the Prop can really crank the power down to almost nothing. One nice thing about the Prop is that it can be run at 3.0 volts off of something like a CR123 with no additional drain for voltage regulators. I always look at the quiescent current specs for parts. For example, we have a detection chamber that has to have a bias voltage of 10.00 volts 24/7/365, and we were able to get that with a quiescent current of less than 5 microamps using a couple of Linear tech parts along with a stack of 4 CR2032s. I too have a lab full of equipment, but I sometimes forget to turn things off in the evening. Not so good. It would be nice to have things on a timer or darkness or inactivity detector, to turn off automatically. A get around to it project for some day. I guess that's what the "energystar" appliance label implies, various power saving strategies.

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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com

Gadgetman

You know...

You can get a BS1 to run at 3V just by snipping a wire.

Not recommended, but it worked with mine.
(One day I'll finish that project... )

My PC is hooked up with a 'Master/slave' power strip, so that when I switch it off, the LCD, printer, USB-DVD/RW, various USB-HDDs are all switched off at the same time.

Not that I use that PC too often...
(I usually use my Apple iBook which has a 45W PSU...)

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Unsoundcode

Beau, if the theme is green it may be worth a mention how to correctly dispose of batteries. I would bet that most people here throw their batteries in the regular household trash when in actual fact batteries are considered a hazardous waste. You could gather a list of collection centers in your area and distribute it to your church members.

Conserving our environment is just as important as conserving our resources.

Jeff T.

Tracy Allen

Agreed about the batteries. Maybe a church could put a battery collection box near the door. The hard part for each of us as individuals the time and gas to take just a few to the collection center.

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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com

LoopyByteloose

My electronics parts store has a battery recycle bin next to the front door. It should be a law to do so.

Ummm.... THE ORIGINAL BS2 uses a mere 9ma plus whatever the I/O is driving.

While I also have the BS2px and the power thristy BS2sx [noparse][[/noparse]somewhere in my chaotic room], I remain intrigued by using the BS2 for micropower. I just wish there was a BS2-3.3volt that could run on thouse Lithium button cells.

Is being GREEN really concerned with 'milliamps'.

My computer is the big power drain of this hobby and I read somewhere that the Internet accounts for roughly 3% of the world-wide electrical consumption.

I happen to believe that nuclear power offers up a clean interim solution to oil and coal electical generation. Some say it can provide electrical power for a millenium.

I have been fooling with super capacitors as a way to provide backup without batteries, but only come up with about 20 seconds of power. Maybe I should be making batteries from Lemons with zinc and copper strips.

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"Everything in the world is purchased by labour; and our passions are the only causes of labor." -- David·Hume (1711-76)········

···················· Tropically,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan

Beau Schwabe

Thanks for some of the suggestions.... sorry for the delayed response, I have been sick this weekend.

With a few phone calls, I think that we could probably make the battery recycling happen.


Kramer,

"Is being GREEN really concerned with 'milliamps'." - Sure it could. Think of all of your standby components in your house that are never really "off" ... "wall warts”, TV, Stereo, battery charger, Cordless phone, etc.

It may seem like a miniscule amount, and perhaps it is, but when you include an entire culture or population that practices similar behaviors, the end result can be staggering! If you could make a conscious effort to unplug
even a few devices that don't necessarily need to be plugged in all of the time, you could make a larger impact than you think.



Take for instance if you were to·reduce your 24/7 energy requirements by 500mA... that's only a 60Watt light bulb. (120V * 500mA = 60Watt)


Per day, that's 1.44kWh ... (60W * 24hours = 1.44kWh)

Per year, that's 525.6 kWh (1.44kWh * 365)

That works out to be about 173 pounds of coal per year for a single 60Watt light bulb running 24/7 . ( Reference : http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/science/energy_calculator.html )

If only 12 people reduced their 24/7 energy requirements by 500mA you could save nearly 1 metric ton of coal a year.

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Beau Schwabe

IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.

Post Edited (Beau Schwabe (Parallax)) : 9/24/2007 6:35:55 AM GMT

Gadgetman

60W lightbulbs?

You mean, people still use those old things?

All my lightbulbs are rated 7 or 11W.

In fact, Australia is banning the sale of 'normal' lightbulbs from 2010, and other countries are looking into doing the same.
(Here in Norway they're working to push the ban into effect at about the same time, and no later than 2012)

Sure, the energy-saving bulbs are more expensive, but they have a typical life of 8000Hours compared to 1500 - 2500 of normal bulbs. Add in the savings on the electricity bill, and there's no reason EVER to buy oldfashioned bulbs anymore.

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LoopyByteloose

The old fashioned blubs allow you use a dimmer which the new ones will not. Gone are the days when you could turn down the lighting for ambience and turn up the stereo.

I guess I'll have to go back to candlelight and a fireplace. But that is just more air pollution.:-(

A lot of conservation is very 'Catch 22'ish.
I actually substantially reduced my electric bill by leaving my A/C on 24/7 for about 9 months of the year. I also have a fan running 24/7.

It is a small room in a concrete structure. So it seems that by staying cool, I waste less. It also drops the overall humidity to the point that my room no longer grows slime mold on the walls. I suspect that isn't very healthy. I even leave one small window open for fresh air and still conserve.

Smart computers with smart monitors were supposed to similarly conserve energy when properly set up, but they seem to never be completely off.

Nowadays, I worry that my powering down and powering up the computer from a dead stop will do more damage via inrush current. The inrush is monitored by a thermal device and if you turn off and immediately turn back on, you have defeated the protective device.

Also, I've already had two flat screen monitors that wore out in less than 2 1/2 years of useful life and I really have lost confidence in how to manage energy conservation. The first, which I completely shut off regularly, was killed by transients due to the on/off switch browning out and shooting sparks. So I left the second one to intelligently manage itself. I suspect that the second one has just become unstable because the electrolitics in the power supply are bloated and at the end of their useful life. It has a special lock, so I cannot open it to self-service [noparse][[/noparse]it is a Lemmel]. As it is, it operates for about 10 seconds then starts going on and off at irregular intervals.

So now I am back to using a power wasteful CRT until I can get a working flat screen resolved.

If you really want to be Green, put a timer on your electric water heater and only heat water for 8 hours or less during the day. Use a BasicStamp that knows when you are at work and when it is the weekend. Also, dry your clothes in a cold dryer or on a line outside. Not only will you save energy, you will find that your Levis last 5 times as long. That hot clothes dryer may sterilize, but it really damages the fiber and shortens the life of the fabric

And finally heating without adequate fans to bring the warm air off the ceiling is a huge waste. Just putting a muffin fan on the floor in a rooms corner and pointed up will drive stagnant air into a convection motion and reduce your winter heating bills. Let the fan run 24/7 and see your heating oil bill go down.

Americans waste more energy than any other culture. In Taiwan, I don't have any central heating in the winter - just blankets, heavy socks, and long underwear. I wore long underwear in Oregon 6 months out of the year and my house used half the heat.

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"Everything in the world is purchased by labour; and our passions are the only causes of labor." -- David·Hume (1711-76)········

···················· Tropically,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan

Gadgetman

Kramer:
Get an insert for your fireplace to rurn it into a 'clean burning' oven with glass doors. It greatly reduces pollution, and even more greatly improves efficiency. (open fireplaces have som many things wrong with them that I don't know where to begin listing them) It also improves fire safety...
This one:
http://www.dovre.co.uk/html/canopy-2700.html
will give you a fireplace that can give up to 10KW of heat. Looks nice, too...

An open fireplace will suck anwhere from 300 to 500 cubic METERS of air from the room, EVERY HOUR!
(That is A LOT of wasted heat)

Amen to the fans to get the air circulating.

Some panel heaters sold here in Norway have a curved top so that the air exiting from the top doesn't rise straight up, but is sent towards the center of the room, creating some convection. (Isn't it strange that these kinds of heaters are always hung under windows?)
Double-glazing shouldn't need mentioning...

The heat-pump has a fan and blows hot air in whatever direction I want, and by placing the unit low, I can maximize the efficiency. (A higher position may be more efficient if I also want to use it as an AC, but really, we're talking about Norway here... )

The last few years I haven't heated my bedroom, just closed the window during the coldest periods...
(And in extreme periods, left the door towards the heated areas open. )
Sleeping in temperatures below 10 degrees(celsius) isn't any problem, with a decent duvet. Getting out of bed in the morning may be, but then again, that's always a problem with me...

Switching off the water-heater during the day?
Probably not...
Turn the temperature down?
Yes!
(You may want to switch it up to 75 degrees celsius now and then, to kill off the virus causing the Legionairs disease)

Why not switch it off?
Modern water-heaters are well-insulated and should keep the temperature for a good period, but...
They also have smaller heaters than older models, just because of that(and to get into a better 'energy efficiency class'), and will take longer to heat the water back up to normal temperature.
I probably wouldn't bother with a switch-off period shorter than 12Hours.
(I have a plug-in 'watt/hour meter' that I can connect between the wall and the heater to measure energy usage, and that will be used as soon as I get into my new apartment. Of course, I'll need to run it for weeks at a time to get a proper result.)

This all assumes an Electric heater, of course.
(Never could understand why people willingly use explosive gas in their houses)

Waterbeds?
The power usage makes me seasick...

Garden illumination?
Please tell me that it's the kind with motion detectors and energy-saving bulbs...

Edit: Changed link to an English-language site

Edit 2:
This is the model I'm getting:
http://www.dovre.co.uk/html/woodburning-stove-250.html
(The 250CBS to be specific)

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Post Edited (Gadgetman) : 9/25/2007 8:10:30 AM GMT

John Bond

A thought from Africa – You know I like to be controversial. (Please don’t get offended)
·
South Africa forgot to plan new power stations so I have to use candles most weeks, usually for an hour or two. (I live in the countryside so they load-shed my area first) The main reason for this is we have done an amazing job of providing power to most homes, especially the mud huts miles from the road. (Its amazing for me to be out in the bush at night and see electric light in each hut!!!)
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We have a gauge on most TV shows showing when the grid is getting overloaded and when this happens, everyone then turns off all unnecessary equipment. It seems that it’s not the overall demand but the peak demand that’s a problem. It’s difficult to store the vast quantity of electricity needed to deal with peaks so you have to generate it anyway and throw it away when you’re not using it. We use it to pump water.
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We mostly have coal fired station that use high sulphur coal (the worst kind) because we’re exporting the better stuff to “Green” Europe. It doesn’t help being green if it encourages someone else to be dirty. ·(We do generally have stack scrubbers to clean up the worst pollution)
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But we still use little energy compared with 1^st world countries, particularly the USA. Why is this?
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My car has a 90KW motor which is bigger than most round here. Is there a car you can buy in the US with an engine smaller than 125 Horsepower (91 Hp). Your SUV/VAN/Crossover uses much more power than your house. One way to save energy is by using vehicles less. One 5 minute burst between traffic lights can be 5KWH. or 250 20watt light bulbs for an hour…
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And all that stuff you put in your trash can has used large amounts of power. That plastic toy, consider the power needed distil the plastic, transport it to the toy factory heat it for injection moulding, cool it afterwards, package it, transport it from China to the USA….
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I don’t know that I’m too worried about the odd 500mW here and there. I’d tackle the big but unpopular issues. You just need to see Congress having difficulty with the new fuel consumption laws – Don’t mess with an American and his/her Automobile
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Maybe the Amish have got it right. “Make, mend or do without”. Anyone want to trade their new Chrysler Crossover for a horse and buggie?
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Regards from the Dark Continent.
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John Bond

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Blackbird455

Absolutely..........I used to have a device that ate 7-9 amps......... I rethunk it........... now I use 750ma.........and its more powerful !!!!!!

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