patience please- question on stamp, picaxe and javlin
whiteoxe
Posts: 794
I am beginning electronics and microcontrollers.
The picaxe has been graet (3 months now) except for memory shortage and some bugy type things such as getting hung up on serin(). And its been very cheap to experiment.
Is the basic stamp easier to use. It looks like a lot of hardware to to proram it ?
and it the basic language harder to learn. Are the uses for the stamp covering a much wider gambit.? Is it god for building everything the picaxe can do, eg. building a simple remote control?
I like progrsamming in java, is the javlin suitable for simple projects such as building a datalogger with RF transmission to a base station PC ?
Are PIC chips or AVR just as easy to program and reprogram as a picaxe.,
or why choose between an AVR and a PIC ? are they as easily programmable as a picaxe. Or can they do a lot more ?
Mr.Curious.
Thanks.
The picaxe has been graet (3 months now) except for memory shortage and some bugy type things such as getting hung up on serin(). And its been very cheap to experiment.
Is the basic stamp easier to use. It looks like a lot of hardware to to proram it ?
and it the basic language harder to learn. Are the uses for the stamp covering a much wider gambit.? Is it god for building everything the picaxe can do, eg. building a simple remote control?
I like progrsamming in java, is the javlin suitable for simple projects such as building a datalogger with RF transmission to a base station PC ?
Are PIC chips or AVR just as easy to program and reprogram as a picaxe.,
or why choose between an AVR and a PIC ? are they as easily programmable as a picaxe. Or can they do a lot more ?
Mr.Curious.Thanks.
Comments
stamp's development boards are less expensive
stamp's coding is easier to go from one type of stamp to another (I don't know about the javlin or prop)
with the other uProcessors (AVR, PIC, etc, there's a bunch of them) if you buy a development board for that specific chip then you have to build your circuitry around that chip.
with the stamp development boards even the stamps themselves are not just a simple chip (like other uProcs) the stamp has serial connections and i/o connections on a mini board that you plug into your pcb (requires less additional circuitry). with the other uProcs you usually need all kinds of accessory circuitry for everything to work. simply put the stamp is more plug and play then other uProcs,
down side of the stamp is the speed, but there models that can do some faster speeds then just the basic 2s
now the other uProcs are cheaper (pennies per item) but again you have to add additional circuitry and some can and some cannot be reprogrammed. All the Basic Stamps can be reprogrammed.
from what I can tell so far most of the add-on modules are also less expensive then the other uProcs.
Post Edited (cyplesma) : 8/31/2007 4:17:11 PM GMT
Is the basic stamp still based on the 6502 microprocessor?
Programming a Stamp just requires a serial port on your PC. If you want/need to use a USB port, then you'll have to use a USB to serial adapter. There's one built into the USB Board of Education development board and Parallax and others sell compatible adapters.
Stamps have an interpreter preinstalled into the flash EPROM of the PIC or SX which interprets the compiled Stamp Basic code. This interpreter adds overhead to the execution time, but builds in functionality. The later Stamp models directly support I2C, parallel LCDs, 1-wire devices.
The answer to "which is better?" depends on what you want to do. If you want to do stuff with timeframes on the order of 10s to 100s of microseconds, the Stamps will probably be too slow or marginally fast. If you want to do stuff relatively easily and reliably, get a Stamp. The devices themselves are well made and pretty rugged. Parallax has some of the best support in the business, particularly lots and lots of tutorials and sample code.
If you need to do things faster than that, get an SX or Propeller. Neither are beginner's devices, but both (particularly the Propeller) have very high performance and can do tasks with timings on the order of 10s of nanoseconds.
The external hardware for it can be extremely simple -- though most people purchase at least one Board Of Education (BOE) just to have a prototyping platform. It's heart is a 16C57 PIC chip -- not a 6502.
The AVR chips are extremely capable, but AVR does not provide as much support as Parallax does. Native PIC chips can be used, but require more external hardware -- eeprom, resonator, voltage regulator, and programmer.
The Parallax Javelin is also an excellent platform -- it provides 32 KBytes of RAM, and a Java Virtual Machine. It costs $99 in stead of the BS2's $50, and is more difficult to program. But then, you get bragging rights by using Java.
The PICAXE clearly share's a niche with the Stamp and you would find moving between the PICAXE and the STAMP to be quite logical. The Stamp is clearly more flexible, even if it has a few less custom commands. I'm not sure I would say that Stamp basic is harder to learn... it's still basic, just like the PICAXE... they only differ on custom hardware commands and pin use concepts.
The Stamp does not need anything more than a slightly customized serial cable for programming and just like PICAXE, the software is also free. It is certainly "easier" to develop with a STAMP when using one of the development boards, but you don't have to have one. My very first project was done with just a 24 PIN stamp, some wire to a com port and a solderless breadboard.
Nothing says you HAVE to learn a complicated specific assembler for PIC's or AVR's to start using them either.
I've also done a lot of projects with BASCOM AVR and find very little "programming"·difference between the AVR, the PICAXE, the STAMP and the SX processor since all can be programmed in basic. (I do C as well when I use PIC's and AVR's) When using the more advanced "compiled"·programming languages you get many more advanced options that allow your projects to become much more complex and take advantage of some of the things in the chip that the STAMP PBASIC or PICAXE BASIC are keeping you away from.
With the right info handy, the right programming tools... and possibly a custom (not expensive) programmer, even a standard PIC or AVR should not be considered out of reach. There is an entirely free C Language available for AVR's (AVRGCC) with excellent support. There aren't many free options for the PIC unless you want to use a demo language. These are all a logical next step when you reach the limitations of the Stamp or the PICAXE in addition to what Mike Green said.
When it comes to finding useful information, good ideas, add on peripherals with the simplicity of "lego" blocks·and an active support community... Parallax wins... hands down.
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There's nothing like a new idea and a warm soldering iron.
Post Edited (pwillard) : 8/31/2007 6:19:22 PM GMT
Seriously? You guys come onto Parallax's own forum and say this stuff? A forum where the employees are ever present and helpful? Where all the SDK's, debug tools, source code and help you could ever want, is free? Where experienced engineers and hobbyists dispense in depth advice, source code, schemtics and tips all for free?
I come to these forums looking for PARALLAX PRODUCT discussions. Sometimes I seek advice, sometimes I provide it. But, in all cases, I try and be respectful as if I'm a guest in someone's home. Didn't any of you feel a little strange typing these types of comments here? Do we really have to wait for a forum moderator to instruct everyone on the proper use of the forums? Seriously?
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no product is perfect for every intention, if a company or employees of a company have a huge ego about their products that they can't understand or respect that, then maybe they need to be like apple and keep their code to themselves (I hope parallax doesn't take that route).
what made the commodore so great was anybody, and I mean anybody that had some time and basic troubleshooting skills could make that box do what they wanted (within the specs of that box's abilities, and some enterprising folks even pushed those specs).
and there was a ton of info being passed around on the BBS systems about how to make it do those things, but it had it's day and it's limitations got overrun eventually. Poof out came the Amiga and it was tooo much money for the same group of people that made use of the commodore (v20 or c64), so it feel to the side, but that amiga is in use today in many of a movie studio for video editing. pixar's stuff and some sun workstations have finally made the amiga almost extinct but man if parallax whats to start charging more just cause people explain the specs when comparing or have to be politically correct then wow, what's next?
but it all happened without the company interfering or trying to control how the box was used or what people did or didn't say about the box. If someone bought that box and it couldn't do what they needed it too a friend would let them know so they could get what they needed to do the task they needed to get done. What's wrong with that?
everything has an upside and everything has a downside.
I'm not trying to mean, just stating some facts and friendly advice.
relaxxxxxxxxx, we're here to do all that we can with parallax's products, but if someone asks me here or even face to face, I'll give them the best answer I can, it may not be politically correct or perceived to be in parallax's favor, but this isn't politics. I saw on another post somebody complaining about getting only 90% of a code sample, microsoft does that also with their documentation and I spend 2 hours troubleshooting something only to learn I didn't declare something correctly, what's wrong with showing the declares (symbols) when giving sample code. again I'm not trying to be mean or whiny, I'm sure I come across that way. but I don't mean to.
I respect the answers I have gotten and hope I can learn more from this forum about parallax and other microprocs. It's nice to compare parallax's stuff against the other stuff, but I don't do it in a way to take business away from parallax. These devices have specs on how they behave and how they don't behave just like all machines, gears, cogs, wheels, whatever.
I dunno, chill dude. It's about the the tools and learning what they can an can't do.
and please don't quote half a sentence, reporters do that and lawyers do that and it's a white lie (aka it's NOT the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth).
Post Edited (cyplesma) : 8/31/2007 10:13:45 PM GMT
I am not willing to say any item is superior. They all have their own niche to fill.· It's realistic to expect that a newcomer would arrive here and ask these kinds of questions.
By the way... even though I've goofed with many of the ones mentioned above... and even written some really spiffy BASCOM or PIC-C Code, it's a Stamp project I see and use everyday as a completed project that gives me the most joy.
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There's nothing like a new idea and a warm soldering iron.
Post Edited (pwillard) : 8/31/2007 10:16:30 PM GMT
but yes I can not seem to make it work with a T6963C LCD controller. I have bought two such lcds (240x64 dots) and I paid less then 40.00 for the both of them, but if I knew that the stamp couldn't talk to them then I would use my stamp for something else and find out what I do need to use to make those lcds work.
I won't repeat you r private message to me, as obviously it is private which I will respect. I apologize for any discomfort this question has caused you. I am frequently coming to the Parallax site to look at the products here which I look forward to purchasing when I get my pocket money piggy bank filled again., because I have stuck a few litle bugs or limitations with the picaxe for what I am trying to accomplish.
There are some exciting products here from what I can tell with my limited understanding. So I thought nothing of asking a few questions to try and fill in some gaps with the help of the men and women here who may have felt happy to help me improve my understanding.
PS. is there a supplier in Australia ? not that i mind ordering OS.
Best regards,
Hayyn
I'm not familiar with the Javelin, but I do know it is designed for the Java programmer.
Welcome to the Parallax Forum. I'm a new member also and I think your going to learn a lot here, meet a lot of people and have some fun with us.
I'm not an employee, just an enthusiastic user. I'm impressed with the level of support for the products. I've built stuff with PICs and Stamps and have settled into mostly using the Propeller. For now, that's not really a beginner's tool, but, once a couple of How-To books get published and there's a larger accumulation of tutorials and sample programs, that may well work as a beginner's tool as well. There's an immense amount of free (if downloaded) material here on how to do things with the Stamp. Also check out www.emesystems.com for information on "higher math" and interfacing with various sensors.
But personally I don't mind people saying good things about other processors.
What I don't stand for is people saying negative things about Parallax products on their support forums, that is really bad form.
Bean.
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The first rule to being successful is "Learn from your mistakes",
The second rule is "Be willing to make mistakes"
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I have seen some of your posts and I am very impressed. Don't you think it is about time you write a "Propeller in's and Out's" book? I think you could, should have and must by now? ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
D. A. Wreski
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