SX or Stamp
Marky-Mark
Posts: 26
Hi all,
I have yet to jump in and actually do a project, but I have been trying to read and learn for the past 4 months on this forum.
What I wanted to start with was the STAMP series of processors, but now I am wondering if starting with the SX series would be better.
I have no microprocessor programing experiance so I really can't tell if starting to learn with the SX will have disadvantages.· If the path·with an·SX is a bit tougher, that's o.k. with me.· But I don't want to start with the SX if the path is imposible and will lead to useless frustration that I would not get with the STAMPS.
In case my qualifications play into the equation:
I have the basic EE course experiance and·the fortran programing experiance that I took as part of mechanical engineering courses.· I also learned to hack some VB code to help me with MS Excel, but most of that was data reading and maipulation.· I have also been around electronics for the past 10 years as a packaging engineer.
So what do you think?· SX or Not SX.· That is the question.
Thanks.
··
I have yet to jump in and actually do a project, but I have been trying to read and learn for the past 4 months on this forum.
What I wanted to start with was the STAMP series of processors, but now I am wondering if starting with the SX series would be better.
I have no microprocessor programing experiance so I really can't tell if starting to learn with the SX will have disadvantages.· If the path·with an·SX is a bit tougher, that's o.k. with me.· But I don't want to start with the SX if the path is imposible and will lead to useless frustration that I would not get with the STAMPS.
In case my qualifications play into the equation:
I have the basic EE course experiance and·the fortran programing experiance that I took as part of mechanical engineering courses.· I also learned to hack some VB code to help me with MS Excel, but most of that was data reading and maipulation.· I have also been around electronics for the past 10 years as a packaging engineer.
So what do you think?· SX or Not SX.· That is the question.
Thanks.
··
Comments
In order to utilize the full power of the SX you will need to learn about its architecture. You will derive the most benefit from it when you understand how it works. Thankfully, you need not start with that understanding. You can start with the free SX/B Basic compiler and be off and running with simple projects fairly quickly. Still, it is my opinion that in order to take the fullest advantage of the SX you will eventually need to understand how it works internally. When you understand how the SX works you will begin to see that it can be programmed to do things the Basic Stamps simply can not handle. The learning curve for the SX is a bit steeper than for the Stamps. The reward for your effort is the ability to use a more powerful processor that comes at a smaller price.
The Basic Stamps:
The great advantage of the Basic Stamps is that you do not need to know so much about how they work internally. It is much easier to focus solely on writing programs to accomplish what you need to have done. The programming is a bit easier and the body of available documentation is much greater! (There is an SX/B book in the works that may make this less of a concern.) However, this ease-of-use with the Basic Stamps somewhat artificially limits what you can accomplish on the advanced end. Even so, a great many people never find a need for more advanced features. Simply put, the Stamps are a great place to start learning about micro-controllers!
I would say that if learning what makes a micro-controller work internally is exciting to you, definitely consider the SX. If you do not really care about how the SX works internally, consider it anyway for its price alone. However, for the absolute easiest way to start you should consider one of the Basic Stamps.
A Suggestion:
A great way to get a feel for where your skills and interests fall is to play around with the FREE SX/B Basic compiler and the FREE SXSim simulator. This combination will allow you to write programs and then watch them run on your computer. If you try these and it all seems too technical for you, you might be better off starting with a Basic Stamp. You can always “upgrade” to the SX later.
- Sparks
But it's also Parallax that sells the Propeller Chip, so I at least can keep a clear conscience
You can have both worlds with a Propeller: Something with the ease (and speed) of Basic, and something with the power of the SX.
Parallax has also a package called "SpinStamp" to ease the transition
There are drawbacks, of course:
- SPIN is not Basic
- To unlock the Power of the Propeller you not only have to learn its architecture but also assembly code
- The educational support has not yet the maturity of the BasicStamp(s) (but it is pretty good after a year now!)
Sparks-R-Fun,
can you give me an exaple of how and why·I will need to learn about the architecture?· Would I have to learn right of the bat, or could I learn as needed?· If the learning is a quest to itself, that might be too much,·else·it will be worth it.
DeSilva,
I would love to play with the Prop like the big-boys, but quite frankly that thing freaks me out,·as it appears way more complex.· Judging from the forum posts a lot of seasoned STAMP folks are finding the transition challenging and I think that might overwhelm me and take more time than I can devote.
My suggestion is to make a compromise and get the StampWorks kit. It is BS2 based, but the Professional Development board can also accept the SX-28 chip.
So for the additional cost of an SX-Key & a few components, you would have a board that works with most of the Parallax line, and would give you a much more versatile development platform than the smaller boards.
First welcome.
Second the following is IMHO.
As good as the Prop is, it is not a good first timer project.
You will have to learn a little about the architecture no matter what chip you choose. It's a fact of life. We hook things up to these things and we must know where to hook them and how to configure the ports to receive/send. It's not hard. You get it.
The difference between PBasic and SX/B is not all that great. Given your background, and how well you know VB or Fortran or any flavor of basic for that matter, you will have no problem with either one. In SX/B, we sometimes have to push the bits around (in and out). In PBasic, like magic, you get the the byte sent or returned. In car terms: one is a automatic sedan, the other is a standard shift. (more like a 500hp Mustang).
Another thing that is important, is if you feel any desire to drop into assembly. This was a very important door for me. What's more important is that it IS there. If you need or desire, open it. If not, well that's OK also. You'll see that some of the wizzards on here will write some function or sub in assembly that you can just cut and paste into your project. (Mustang just got a turbo).
Whatever SX kit you get, get one with Gunther's book. I couldn't afford the Pro kit, so I got the SX Tech Tool Kit PLUS. For $99, I don't think you can go wrong. If you think you want the Pro Dev board and can afford it, go for it. I wish I had a Pro Board and maybe some day, but for now it's out of the budget.
Read the books that are available and send any questions here, you can't go wrong.
HTH, Chris
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I'm not scared of your robot. I'm covered by Old Glory (youtube)
And don't forget the SX/B help manual http://forums.parallax.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47155
Bean.
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The first rule to being successful is "Learn from your mistakes",
The second rule is "Be willing to make mistakes"
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www.hittconsulting.com
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There's nothing like a new idea and a warm soldering iron.
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I liked it even better. The BS2 could do more and the ·(What’s A Microcontroller) manual was simply awesome, it also helps you get you ready for SX/B. ·
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Now! I am using the SX Chips and the PDB it does just about anything I need or can think up.· Parallax has developed a fantastic and easy system for beginners like me to get into this great hobby or profession.· With all that said they also have this great Forum with the best support, expert members and moderators you could ask for.· Like Bean, Sparks, Jon, Johnny ect… ·I will eventually move to the Propeller one day in the future.
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To my Knowledge and as a newbie
The BS1 was very easy and a really quick way to jump right in and get started with the micros..
In your case and with your background I would suggest starting with the BS2. It is so much fun and comes with great books and projects.· The BS2 really taught me a lot and it really helped me get ready for the SX.
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With the BS2 you can spend more time playing with the circuits and not worry so much about the code.
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With the SX you have to focus on the code a lot more. The chip can do just about anything you need it to do you just have to figure out how to do it with code and for less than $3 it’s you simply can’t go wrong.
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Regardless of which way you go you have the best support you can get right here in this Forum.· I hope this helps you.·
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SX Tech Tool kit PLUS
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- Rick
For example, I designed a three-phase motor controller that relied upon a shaft encoder to determine the rotor position and apply the appropriate control signals. I used some of the Port B pins to interrupt the processor whenever new position information was detected. I could have run a continuous software loop to poll for this information but that would have wasted a lot of processor time and might have resulted in a slower response. However, understanding that Port B pins can be configured to interrupt the processor and cause it to run a separate subroutine allowed me to structure my program in a different manner. I think it allowed for a better solution.
I have also found it helpful on two occasions to map out where each of my program variables resides in memory. I did this because some of my programs have grown to be quite complex. I never did this starting out. It was not necessary. SX/B takes care of placing variables in free memory space much like the Basic Stamp environment does. Most likely you will never care to know where each one goes. However, I had an instance where I did care and with the SX it is possible to know and even change this!
As another example, at one time I was trying to figure out how to do something tricky with the built-in timer/counters on the SX48. At about that same time Bean (a frequent poster here and a great help) figured out a clever way to read in the value I was trying to obtain by switching the timer/counter between modes. In a sense he ‘tricked’ it into doing what he (and I) wanted. He was able to accomplish this by understanding the architecture of the SX chip. He used that knowledge to figure out a clever way to accomplish what he was trying to achieve. So it helps sometimes to understand how the chip is structured and how the various parts work and interconnect.
Initially you might treat all pins the same as I did thinking “An I/O pin is an I/O pin!” Now I think things like “This pin is an I/O pin that can also interrupt the processor.” “This pin in an I/O pin that can also indicate the comparative voltage levels of two other pins.” Or “This pin is an I/O pin that can be set up to output a specified duty cycle completely on its own without requiring constant attention from the processor.”
You do not need to understand the SX architecture to start using the SX. But learning about its architecture is helpful in ways that have no real comparison in the Basic Stamps, at least as far as I understand them.
- Sparks