Parallax: Please tell us why CCS and not BKND for a C compiler?

James Newton

Does any one else wonder why Parallax is so tied to CCS and has apparently repeatedly ignored suggestions to look at BKND?

I'm sure I'm just not understanding the Parallax point of view here, but it would be great to hear from them why CCS (after repeated dissapointments over YEARS) is being distributed by Parallax sales as THE SX/C while BKND (after instant and rapid success with only very few,·minor, and avoidable·bugs reported) is not even referenced on the Parallax web site.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but it would seem to me that C4SX, using BKND CC1B for the SX is actually being used and producing quite lovely code. I have yet to see even ONE program that made it to a chip from the SX/C using CCS other than the demo examples and some of those don't even appear to compile. Am I mssing something?

I, for one, would really like to hear the Parallax point of view on this. Am I alone?

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James Newton, Host of SXList.com
james at sxlist,com 1-619-652-0593 fax:1-208-279-8767
SX FAQ / Code / Tutorials / Documentation:
http://www.sxlist.com Pick faster!

PJMonty

James,

I'm not speaking for Parallax, only for myself. Here are a couple of potential issues with the BKND compiler.

1 - It's still BETA, and there are no plans apparent on the BKND website as to when (or if indeed, ever) the 1.0 version is coming out. As far as I can tell, this is an unfinished piece of software with no support from the company who made it, and no plans to work on it in the future.

2 - Is it just me, or is the SX compiler pretty much hidden on the BKND website. When I go to the home page, I see only links to the two Pic compilers. The only way to find the SX compiler is searching for it by name via Google so I can find the page on the BKND website.

3 - The BKND compiler seems to make you do a lot of work telling it what banks to put variables in. Isn't not having to do this sort of processor specific work the reason why use high level languages?

4 - Cost. The BKND compilers cost $250 for the standard edition. Right now, everyone considers it "free" because it is unsupported, BETA software. I don't believe the programmer is planning on upgrading the compiler unless people start buying it, and they can't buy it because it's not for sale and is still in BETA, etc, etc. I see a chicken-and-egg problem with a programmer who wrote a compiler, didn't see a big enough market, and has just sort of let it sit "hidden" on his website.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, but the above four points are all things that I see as reasons that BKND is not currently an actively supported C compiler for the SX IDE.

To the best of my understanding, Parallax wants to get a good, low cost C compiler for the SX. Currently, CCS is (attempting) to provide it. I too am frustrated with CCS at times, but at least they are actively working on the problem. Is there any indication that the BKND programmer is actively working on his free, BETA software? If BKND stepped up to the plate, perhaps contacted Parallax, and indicated an interest in working the them, things might change. Similarly, if they dropped the price from $250 to $100, I could see a lot more people willing to buy it. However, until something changes, I can only assume the situation will remain as it is right now.

If you want (as do I) a C compiler for the SX, perhaps you can contact BKND and find out where they stand on lowering the cost and starting active work on the compiler again.

Thanks,
PeterM

James Newton

1. CCS is also a BETA. I see no difference.
2. There is NO mention of the SX on CCS website AT ALL.
3. I believe that issue was worked around, but yes, that is a problem. How many bug have we found in the CCS compiler?
4. First, you get what you pay for. Second, that's why Parallax needs to be talking to BKND.

Sometimes the mountain needs to go to mohamud rather than the other way round.

Thanks for trying to explain it to me.

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James Newton, Host of SXList.com
james at sxlist,com 1-619-652-0593 fax:1-208-279-8767
SX FAQ / Code / Tutorials / Documentation:
http://www.sxlist.com Pick faster!

PJMonty

James,

The CCS compiler has basically come out of BETA. Even if it was (is) still BETA, CCS is actively working on it. Slow, but working on it. To me, this is a really critical difference. I believe that if BKND agreed to start actively working on it, Parallax would be much more interested. Again, I am speaking for myself only here. I haven't spoken to Parallax about any of this, and am merely speculating.

I can only suggest the SX community prodding BKND into a commitment of support/completion and perhaps this entire conversation will become moot. I'm all in favor of a working (preferably cheap) C compiler for the SX. Sorry BASIC, you're just not my cup of tea.

Thanks,
PeterM

dkemppai

PJMonty said...
·I'm all in favor of a working (preferably cheap) C compiler for the SX. Sorry BASIC, you're just not my cup of tea.

Agreed,

I've basically dropped the SX at this point. Even put support for singles or doubles in SX/B and i'll start
looking at it.·I've wished too long for a good C compiler for this chip.

Wish in one hand, and spit in the other and see which one fills up first.

-Dan


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"A saint-like quantity of patience is a help, if this is unavailable, a salty vocabulary works nearly as well." - A. S. Weaver

pwillard

I, for one, have had it with CCS.· I purchased PCM, (not the windows gui version) to try it out.· It was OK, but not bug free.· The fact that I did not pull upgrades "right away" from their web site cost me, as I was unable to get further updates without an·additional contract.·· That was not in my plans. Their support and upgrade practices·not to mention the pricing are just not reasonable·for a hobbyist or casual user.

I'm happy to see that Parallax is working on an alternate compiler with them, but I will not be interested in the CCS product personally.



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There's nothing like a new idea and a warm soldering iron.